I just posted a complete review (as complete as I could be, anyway) of the Federal RS-Pro's in a new thread here:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ml#post4572561

 

Mark,

Please write a letter in to the SAC to get the GP3 classed. Do you suppose the AT would work well for AX? Is there room for the more common 245 or 255 that people run on 8" wheels? Is there room to step to 17s or are the brakes too big?

 

Hello,

Yes I will. I have been meaning to write the SAC to get the GP3 classed for SCCA SOLO II competition. However, having autocrossed my GP3 a couple of times, I don't think it would be competitive against the Honda Civic Type R. The GP's torque converter style 'slush box' automatic transmission is a real let down on the autocross course. Slow to shift up and down in manual mode and little or no engine braking. I would like to see the car classed in D Street, the same class as current Honda Civic Type R for local events, but I don't think the GP would be competitive nationally. The GP comes with 18x8 wheels with sticky 200 tread wear Hankooks with a big offset to clear the brakes. You would be hard pressed to find 17 inch wheels that will clear the front brakes. The JCW 18x7 2019 MINI JCW Orange edition wheels will not clear the brakes of my GP. That car is also a terrible autocrosser. F56 MINI's just aren't as light and nimble as the R50s and R53s or even the R56.

However the F56 GP3 is a track day weapon. See videos from my Track Night at America events at Pocono at www.markchiles.com

Enjoy,

Mark Chiles
Hershey, PA
2021 MINI JCW GP #999
2019 MINI JCW Orange International Edition (manual)
2013 MINI Cooper (Manual - Winter Car)
2009 Pontiac G8 GXP (6.2L - Manual)

 

scca has always had rules about production numbers sold in the US, the GPs have never met the minimum afaik

 

Looks like production is 3,000, over the 1,000 minimum, so it might get through. They only made 1,000 '18 Focus RSs, and 699 S2000 CRs over two years.

I think chances of a high cost / low volume car like that going to DS are zero, but BS is a possibility and better than the exclusion list.

 

US sales, not worldwide production

 

In the 2021 SCCA SOLO II rules for Street Category, a 1,000 unit requirement is listed. It does not specify that those 1,000 units must be have been sold in the United States only. Just that at least 1,000 units were produced. And we know that more than 1,000 units were produced for worldwide sale. I have GP3 Series #999 and I have seen higher numbers on the barge boards of other F56 GP3s in the US. I do not know how many GP3s were imported and sold in the United States and Canada. That would be interesting to know.

Page 73: "Cars running in Street Category must have been series produced with normal road touring equipment capable of being licensed for normal road use in the United States and normally sold and delivered through the manufacturer’s retail sales outlets in the United States. A Canadian-market vehicle is eligible for Street category if it is identical to the US-market counterpart except for comfort and convenience modifications as allowed per Section 13.2.A.

A member may request classing for any car models not specifically listed in Street Category, provided that vehicle was produced in quantities of at least 1,000 in that model year."

There is also the case to be made that the GP3 is just and extension of the F56 MINI John Cooper Works model already classed in D Street as the official name of the car is "MINI John Cooper Works GP".

Classing of MINI has always been an issue with SCCA SOLO II. I fought for sensible classing of MINIs for years. I finally quit autocrossing nationally at Pro Solos, National Tours and going to Nationals, in part after they moved the R53 Cooper S out of what was then G Stock. R50 Coopers were dominating H Stock and R53 Cooper S were dominating G Stock, much to the chagrin of Toyota Celica and Honda Civic owners, who's manufacturers was giving the SCCA sponsorship money. To end the domination of a car who's manufacturer was not giving the SCCA money and a car the SEB and SAC members did not own, the MINIs got reclassed.

I know getting the GP3 classed in the current Street Category is a long shot. And based on the GP3 performance specifications, it should probably be classed in D Street, where a well prepared and well driven current Honda Civic Type R will probably eat it's lunch.

I believe that the GP3 should be classed in D Street mainly for the purpose that the GP3 could be run at local events just for fun. It may win some local events, maybe even some regional events, but I don't think the GP3 is competitive nationally. (Darn Automatic Transmission!)

However, since SCCA SOLO seems to have a Category, Sub-Category and Class for every car and interest group. I have lost count has to how many classes there are now. 76 classes? if you include the ladies classes. Give the GP3 its own class. "I" Street". So, "I" can autocross the car that "I" own. Or, give all versions of the GP their own classes. Call them "GP Street" and "GP Modified".

Mark Chiles
Hershey, PA
2021 MINI JCW GP #999
2019 MINI JCW Orange International Edition (manual)
2013 MINI Cooper (Manual - Winter Car)
2009 Pontiac G8 GXP (6.2L - Manual)

 

all you have to do is look at what they did with the GP1 and GP2 I thought SSP or one of those classes had GPs but no longer, they used to be on a exclude list now all I see is the GP3 on there

DS is home to S and JCW mini's, GP do not belong there, I would argue they should be DS and the rest of the mini's moved to a slower class

 

Pretty sure the Minis all got bumped to DS when the LSD option came out. LSD was the "line in the sand" between GS & DS at the time. Visually, LSD and non-LSD cars were indistinguishable, so... :boop: Crappy for the existing GS Mini folk, but the right move IMO.

 

The 2005 R53 MINI Cooper S that I won the 2005 SCCA SOLO II G Stock National Championship with had the factory installed Torsen-style LSD option. I think it was a one-year $1,500 option on the Cooper S in 2005. Only a handful of cars were sold with the LSD option. The LSD equipped car I won with belonged to Jeff Jacobs, I now wish I had bought it from him when he sold it.

When the discussions began about moving the R53 MINI Cooper S out of G Stock, I do not recall hearing complaints about LSD equipped MINIs in G Stock. It was the domination of the MINI in both G Stock and H Stock and that the SEB/SAC and other G Stock drivers wanted a better sampling of cars winning the classes. I.E.Toyota Celica GTs and Honda Civic SIs. So, the Cooper S was moved to "D" where it became uncompetitive nationally.

Mark Chiles
Hershey, PA
2021 MINI JCW GP #999
2019 MINI JCW Orange International Edition (manual)
2013 MINI Cooper (Manual - Winter Car)
2009 Pontiac G8 GXP (6.2L - Manual)

 

Lsd was factory option for last two years r53 and first couple of r56. Same unit did 30% I have owned both platforms with the diff, was a 500$ option on r56 if I recall when I ordered mine

 

The LSD was a $500 option on the R56 and it was available through 2009, then came in the eDLC. Electronic Differential Lock Control, which had nothing to do with the differential, but uses the front brakes to control wheel spin. A royal PIA and destroyer of front rotors and pads...

I thought the LSD was an option for our 2004 MINI, but I could be wrong... It is tough trying to remember back 18 years (2003) to when we ordered it

 

Still no letter asking for GP classing.

 

Got busy and forgot about it. What do you want it to say? Any particular class you are shooting for?

 

Anyways, the GP3 just was placed in BS per the latest Fast Track. Sitting there with the Type R Special Edition. Better than the exclusion list I guess.

 

I have the GP3 and I must admit it is a handful at higher speeds and in hindsight I would not purchase one again. It is fun, but will bite you too easily. I am unsure what I will do with it just yet. I have considered seeing what sort of trade in allowance I might have for the BMW 4 series competition coupe, but probably not enough to warrant the trade.

It is a really fun little speedster on twisty backroads and I may just keep it for that and it is a unique and challenging little beast. I really would like to take it to Mount Washington and see what it can do. I have run it on the Tail of the Dragon and have a 12 minute and change time with it, and I can't do that in my 56 JCW.

 

KYDan - Would you mind elaborating on what you are experiencing at higher speeds that make it a handful? I am curious as I find my F56 JCW wanders a bit at speed, which requires constant, little corrections. My R56 has much better straight line stability than the F56. The JCW feels like there is a mm of play in the steering rack that shouldn’t be there.

 

KYDan, I too would like to know more as to what you are experiencing. When you say higher speeds. What speeds? I have been autocrossing and track daying many different MINIs since I got my first one in March of 2002. And I admit the GP3 can be a handful compared to all other MINIS as it has 300+hp and 350+ torques in a relatively lightweight package. The GP3 is the best handling MINI I have ever owned or driven. It is fun to drive on the track and on twisty roads. Not so much fun as daily driver on the interstates. Too stiff. The sticky Hankooks when warm, grip very well and are affected by every pavement imperfection. When tires are cold, the car can wonder and side-step under heavy acceleration. On the back straight at Pocono at speedo indicated 145 to 150 MPH, the GP3 is a bit squirrelly, especially under high speed braking, (And the rear wing or antenna whistles) I attribute it to the negative camber of the front wheels, worn tires and the track surface. You will see in my track videos (www.markchiles.com) that I try to straddle the pavement joints to keep the car from wandering.

Mark Chiles
Hershey, PA
2021 MINI JCW GP #999
2019 MINI JCW Orange International Edition (manual)
2013 MINI Cooper (Manual - Winter Car)
2009 Pontiac G8 GXP (6.2L - Manual)

 

I answered your question, but somehow it seems to have failed to be posted! There is a long straight stretch on a nearby section of the interstate that has a nice straight great vision to the front and rear. I sometimes take one of the toys there to check things out and get to know them better and decide what I can do to make the handling better. I tried this after the break in period on all of the minis. The R was flawless, the F56 JCW was manageable, but the GP 3 was very "squirrelly" at any speed above 115 or so. I have not taken it to a good track to see how it handles and I have had some other issues with it as well. I do like it and it is fun and challenging to drive, but I suppose I have been too spoiled by some of my other toys! I have been considering trading it in on a BMW 4 series competition coupe if I can get any kind of a decent trade.

 

Not sure what the alignment specs are for the GP3, but it sounds like yours might be off a bit...

 

I wonder if the "squirrelyness" we are experiencing with the GP3 at sustained 100+ MPH speeds is "Lift" caused by that enormous rear wing.

The wing has quite a bit of surface area. Maybe we are approaching "take-off" speed.

I guess the only way to determine that would be to remove the rear wing.

Mark Chiles
Hershey, PA
2021 MINI JCW GP #999
2019 MINI JCW Orange International Edition (manual)
2013 MINI Cooper (Manual - Winter Car)
2009 Pontiac G8 GXP (6.2L - Manual)

 

I have had it checked by the dealer and my BMW shop as well for that and it did not really change the handling. I use this section of road to check out all of my different wheeled toys and the GP3 is the only one that has a problem with it. It may be an aberrant, singular problem for this particular automobile, that I have been unable to find a fix for it, and honestly I am tired of dealing with it.

Life is short, drive fast and have fun.

 

I have had the heavy braking dance with both the R56 and the F56 JCW. My solution was to put a really aggressive pad in the rear to match the track pad in the front. On the R56 I went with the Hawk DTC 60 to match the same pad in the front. On the F56 JCW, I am still working on that on that one, but have an aggressive race pad (iSweep 3500) in the rear and I am going to try the Carbotech XP12 in the front. Probably not the best match, but it is a work in progress.

Joking?
I sincerely hope MINI didn’t design the wing to cause lift..

I had my alignment checked too with no affect. It is all in spec. But, my car’s wandering feels like it is cause by the front end. Maybe not enough caster? Maybe?

Sorry to hear you are disappoint in the GP, especially after all the hype. Also agree...
Motor on...

 

From my experience, the alignment can be "In Spec" and still feel like crap. Take it to a competent shop and tell them what you want. Try to find a tech that can translate how the car feels to your alignment numbers.

 

On the subject of brakes.... There are brake pads MORE aggressive than the OEM JCW/GP3 front pads? MINI Part # 31 10 6 889 266

I only get one or two track days to my front OEM pads on the GP3 and 4 track days out of the rears as it is now. My brake pad budget seems to be higher than my tire budget.

I have looked into other brake pads. They don't seem to be as aggressive as the OEM pads. The OEM pads never fade. Just wear out rather quickly. I am not sure I want even more aggressive pads. I don't want to have to change brakes at the track.

Although, the front brake pads are easy to swap out. The rear brake pads are a real pain to change.

Mark Chiles
Hershey, PA
2021 MINI JCW GP #999
2019 MINI JCW Orange International Edition (manual)
2013 MINI Cooper (Manual - Winter Car)
2009 Pontiac G8 GXP (6.2L - Manual)