Arrogant MINI Owners
6th Gear
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 15,478
Likes: 2
Funny, in another thread, the participants are upset about the unruly tourists on the strip making rude comments about the MINI ... only to find out ... MINI owners making rude comments to others. Sad ...
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 10,340
Likes: 5
From: Woodside, CA
I was unclear...
the comments about porsches vs minis and what's a better car are off topic. For those that care, Tim drives pretty gutless 924s. I think he was running about 140 HP in his car.
The race series are woven into the track events. During this day, there was the track event for street drivers, the Real race (practice, qualifying, and the first two races ?!?! of the season). There were seven cars entered into the race, and the 924 made 8. Due to carnage in the first race, only 4 cars ran the second. The MC2 sessions (one in the morning and one in the afternoon) had 11 cars and no carnage. But they were for timed laps with in car telemetry (MSD Racepaks).
To make it more interesting, the guys who film for Phil (MAV-TV) were also filming some "reality tv" bikini model competition! What a mix!
Matt
The race series are woven into the track events. During this day, there was the track event for street drivers, the Real race (practice, qualifying, and the first two races ?!?! of the season). There were seven cars entered into the race, and the 924 made 8. Due to carnage in the first race, only 4 cars ran the second. The MC2 sessions (one in the morning and one in the afternoon) had 11 cars and no carnage. But they were for timed laps with in car telemetry (MSD Racepaks).
To make it more interesting, the guys who film for Phil (MAV-TV) were also filming some "reality tv" bikini model competition! What a mix!
Matt
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
From: Nashville,TN
How many MINIs were on track for the race? At one time I thought I'd read that counterfit MINIs would be allowed if there was a low turnout. Maybe this somewhat explains the Porsche.? Anyway, new series and mistakes will probably be made. Maybe this was one? Freedom of speach, mob mentality, right and wrong can be debated forever without resolution. A bit of getting along would be nice, although the wall thing could bring out some comments.
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 10,340
Likes: 5
From: Woodside, CA
5th Gear
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
From: Arroyo Del Valle
Why do these threads turn in to such opinion thrashing clusters? I was there and saw the crash and I heard the comments. I took them as being more ribbing than insulting. It was a race for Minis for points. The Porsche driver hit the wall and caused a restart. It was during the track day. The details are on the Phil Wicks website so reading that should make it clear so no need to post misinformation. The Minis were race prepared Minis that had been trailered there and that costs a lot of money. Other cars should not have been on the track. Tim drove with me during the lunch time sighting laps. He was a nice guy and showed me around the track. I was surprised that he crashed. But nice guy or not he screwed up the race and some people are going to comment. Have you guys ever been to a ball game? Oh and Chows, just buy a car magazine to answer your question. They print the stats.
5th Gear
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 696
Likes: 0
From: Reno
Uhmm OK ... so thats a whole bunch of people with different cars with different levels of driving expertise.
So somebody with a "Fast" MINI can drive faster around a track than some balding middle-aged guy with a 911 who is afraid of scratching is $100K car.
So what?
You didn't answer my question ... same cars ... same driver ... which one is faster around the track ... and btw, when you talk about "fast" MINIs you know that means modded quite a bit. Now add the same mods to the 944 or 911 ... Add the CAI and headers and catbacks, etc.
I'm not trying to be cute about this but when someone says:
You haven't been to many track days with fast MINIs, have you? 924s, 944s (and most 911s unless they are driven well) fall like wheat before the scythe.
That is a totally meaningless statement if your comparing apples and oranges ... compare the cars with the same driver and then what happens? (and OEM to OEM or modded to modded) ...
Go over to Rennlist and read about people with the lowly low-end P-cars bragging about how they smoked some GT3s around some track ... until someone reminds them they are in the novice classes or whatever the classes are the drivers of the GT3s dont know what they are doing.
With all due respect ... I'm just looking for comparative data (same driver expertise) ... not blanket statements with unequal driver expertise. The way you wrote that gives people an impression that is not comparing equals situations.
So somebody with a "Fast" MINI can drive faster around a track than some balding middle-aged guy with a 911 who is afraid of scratching is $100K car.
So what?
You didn't answer my question ... same cars ... same driver ... which one is faster around the track ... and btw, when you talk about "fast" MINIs you know that means modded quite a bit. Now add the same mods to the 944 or 911 ... Add the CAI and headers and catbacks, etc.
I'm not trying to be cute about this but when someone says:
You haven't been to many track days with fast MINIs, have you? 924s, 944s (and most 911s unless they are driven well) fall like wheat before the scythe.
That is a totally meaningless statement if your comparing apples and oranges ... compare the cars with the same driver and then what happens? (and OEM to OEM or modded to modded) ...
Go over to Rennlist and read about people with the lowly low-end P-cars bragging about how they smoked some GT3s around some track ... until someone reminds them they are in the novice classes or whatever the classes are the drivers of the GT3s dont know what they are doing.
With all due respect ... I'm just looking for comparative data (same driver expertise) ... not blanket statements with unequal driver expertise. The way you wrote that gives people an impression that is not comparing equals situations.
I've run a showroom stock JCW MCS at the track for the last two years. I've just now added some suspension upgrades to counteract the pushing and to help balance the car. I haven't touched the engine, ECU or exhaust. It's the way it rolled out of Oxford.
6th Gear
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 15,478
Likes: 2
5th Gear
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 758
Likes: 0
....ummm nobody's pointed out that the White Roof Radio crew calling the qualifying and races all day gently poked fun at "the counterfit MINI" all day long.
I felt bad for the gent, tough to see anyone invest that time and money into a car and then shorten it the hard way.
Being there... the majority of the comments I heard were...
"Silly Porche tracks are for MINIs"
"Counterfit MINI"
"Fake MINI"
Being that the precedence was set by the race callers Todd and DB... I can't say that any of those were as out of line as people have been led to believe. In fact I know for certain at leat 1 MINI driver offered to help push the Porche into the hauler and was told politely "Naa that's okay, I'll winch it up"
I felt bad for the gent, tough to see anyone invest that time and money into a car and then shorten it the hard way.
Being there... the majority of the comments I heard were...
"Silly Porche tracks are for MINIs"
"Counterfit MINI"
"Fake MINI"
Being that the precedence was set by the race callers Todd and DB... I can't say that any of those were as out of line as people have been led to believe. In fact I know for certain at leat 1 MINI driver offered to help push the Porche into the hauler and was told politely "Naa that's okay, I'll winch it up"
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 10,340
Likes: 5
From: Woodside, CA
I missed by a 2!
I thought it was a 944 http://timjmeyer.lv.googlepages.com/petetoejamracingMatt
6th Gear
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 15,478
Likes: 2
There's no due respect there at all.
I've run a showroom stock JCW MCS at the track for the last two years. I've added some suspension upgrades to counteract the pushing and to help balance the car. I haven't touched the engine, ECU or exhaust. It's the way it rolled out of Oxford.
I've run a showroom stock JCW MCS at the track for the last two years. I've added some suspension upgrades to counteract the pushing and to help balance the car. I haven't touched the engine, ECU or exhaust. It's the way it rolled out of Oxford.
Not different drivers, different cars ... that dont mean much with an imbalance of drivers ... but you dont seem to want to answer ... so be it.
I understand your a great driver from what I have read and a great instructor. That is with all due respect. But comparing yourself with others who may not be ... what is the point of that?
And I can look at the ring times and JCW, with I presume a factory driver driving, are pretty far back in the list of times ...
But this isn't going anywhere, and is OT, So Dr. O is correct ... Its not going to get anywhere without comparing with the same driver.
5th Gear
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 696
Likes: 0
From: Reno
Oh give it up gromit, you weren't there. There was a track day event for run-what-you-brung, there was a MC2 whatever it was track thingie, and there were two RACES!
Like I posted earlier however, class (or the lack of it) shows.
5th Gear
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 696
Likes: 0
From: Reno
And Chow if you want showdowns or runoffs or dyno comparos or data charts or whatever, buy a car mag. I'm not into that stuff.
I'll stand by my statements about track days. If you want to see how the cars perform in the real world on the track, come to the track.
I'll stand by my statements about track days. If you want to see how the cars perform in the real world on the track, come to the track.
4th Gear
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 441
Likes: 0
From: NW NC, USA, Earth
I recently attended a HPDE run by the SVT Cobra club, they were gracious enough to invite our local MINI club. We spent the weekend surrounded by, and running with, Cobras, real and replica, Daytona coupes, assorted Vettes, GT500's and mere Mustang GT's. They were as pleasant and welcoming to us as could be, and except for a few jokes about picking MINI's out of their grilles, they were as nice as they could be. I would hope that one day, if the MINI brand gets established as well as some of the older brands and we have our own track events, that we can be as welcoming as they were. We are all, first and foremost, automobile enthusiasts, and I appreciate anyone's efforts in that endeavor, even if they're driving a Yugo.
5th Gear
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 696
Likes: 0
From: Reno
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 10,340
Likes: 5
From: Woodside, CA
I did my first track stuff with the Nor-Cal Shelby club...
I recently attended a HPDE run by the SVT Cobra club, they were gracious enough to invite our local MINI club. We spent the weekend surrounded by, and running with, Cobras, real and replica, Daytona coupes, assorted Vettes, GT500's and mere Mustang GT's. They were as pleasant and welcoming to us as could be, and except for a few jokes about picking MINI's out of their grilles, they were as nice as they could be. I would hope that one day, if the MINI brand gets established as well as some of the older brands and we have our own track events, that we can be as welcoming as they were. We are all, first and foremost, automobile enthusiasts, and I appreciate anyone's efforts in that endeavor, even if they're driving a Yugo.
Matt
ps, there's more than one Mini that runs with them. Those that don't know the car are very surprised when they see what it keeps up with, or even passes!
5th Gear
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
From: Arroyo Del Valle
You know Matt you have made this out to be a case of other car bashing when it is really about a car being in a race that it didn't belong in. Not only that but you put in the part about the pregnant women and baited all kinds of people who then posted indignant replies when they never heard the original comments or saw what happend or even knew that it was a race for Minis and not a track day for anyone. For that matter the track day was promoted as an AMVIV event and gave people a chance to be out with Minis so other cars should not have been out there either.
The Porsche drive screwed up the race and caused a restart. It was really surprising since he was a local instructor. While I felt sorry for Tim after he crashed I was kind of ticked that he messed up a race that I drove 50 miles from Las Vegas to see and was one of the things I came to AMVIV to see. I felt worse for the Mini racers who spent a lot of money to enter the race and lost their advantage when they had to restart. While I didn't yell at him I can see where some people might if they had also traveled a long distance to see a Mini race and were unhappy to see their race favorite set back by this unnecessary event. I really don't know what the purpose was of calling this a case of arrogant Mini owners.
The Porsche drive screwed up the race and caused a restart. It was really surprising since he was a local instructor. While I felt sorry for Tim after he crashed I was kind of ticked that he messed up a race that I drove 50 miles from Las Vegas to see and was one of the things I came to AMVIV to see. I felt worse for the Mini racers who spent a lot of money to enter the race and lost their advantage when they had to restart. While I didn't yell at him I can see where some people might if they had also traveled a long distance to see a Mini race and were unhappy to see their race favorite set back by this unnecessary event. I really don't know what the purpose was of calling this a case of arrogant Mini owners.
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,459
Likes: 0
From: Milwaukee, WI
You know Matt you have made this out to be a case of other car bashing when it is really about a car being in a race that it didn't belong in. Not only that but you put in the part about the pregnant women and baited all kinds of people who then posted indignant replies when they never heard the original comments or saw what happend or even knew that it was a race for Minis and not a track day for anyone. For that matter the track day was promoted as an AMVIV event and gave people a chance to be out with Minis so other cars should not have been out there either.
The Porsche drive screwed up the race and caused a restart. It was really surprising since he was a local instructor. While I felt sorry for Tim after he crashed I was kind of ticked that he messed up a race that I drove 50 miles from Las Vegas to see and was one of the things I came to AMVIV to see. I felt worse for the Mini racers who spent a lot of money to enter the race and lost their advantage when they had to restart. While I didn't yell at him I can see where some people might if they had also traveled a long distance to see a Mini race and were unhappy to see their race favorite set back by this unnecessary event. I really don't know what the purpose was of calling this a case of arrogant Mini owners.
The Porsche drive screwed up the race and caused a restart. It was really surprising since he was a local instructor. While I felt sorry for Tim after he crashed I was kind of ticked that he messed up a race that I drove 50 miles from Las Vegas to see and was one of the things I came to AMVIV to see. I felt worse for the Mini racers who spent a lot of money to enter the race and lost their advantage when they had to restart. While I didn't yell at him I can see where some people might if they had also traveled a long distance to see a Mini race and were unhappy to see their race favorite set back by this unnecessary event. I really don't know what the purpose was of calling this a case of arrogant Mini owners.
You are correct to say that a lot of us were not there, yet still have made comments. I believe this comes from a lot of us knowing that Matt's reputation is rooted strongly in numbers and facts. I'm pretty sure it is safe to say that Matt didn't write what he did from hearsay.
It's like beating a dead horse, but no matter who was driving on the track, no matter what kind of car a person was driving, NOTHING demands the disrespect of any human being.
And what about this thought: If the driver really was not supposed to be there, then how was he allowed on the track? Did he just pull through the gate and sneak on with no one noticing? Perhaps he was permitted to be on the track?
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 15,966
Likes: 1
I find it ironic that a thread started to lament the words of obnoxious and antagonistic MINI owners has brought an onslaught of more of it. Dr. Ob's point was well founded. The derisiveness expressed in these statements is shameful. Owning a MINI is all about having fun. How about we try it?!?!?
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,737
Likes: 4
From: Los Angeles
although some of us want to be respectful and kind and nice, the truth of the matter is people are not. it is what it is, the world is not so perfect. we can all do what we can to be respectful to one another but sometimes it just isnt possible.
in regards to this thread, who's defending what at this point and why?
that we should be nice all the time? yes we should
that MINI owners are arrogant? sometimes we are
that the porsche shouldnt have been there? no, not in the MINI only race
that this was a race and not a track day? yes, it was a race
that people put lots of money into these events/cars because theyre serious about their passion and want it to be more than a hobby? yes. lots of money
that the people in the stands were disrespectful? yes.
i only see 1 no answer... the porsche shouldnt have been on the track during the race.
in regards to this thread, who's defending what at this point and why?
that we should be nice all the time? yes we should
that MINI owners are arrogant? sometimes we are
that the porsche shouldnt have been there? no, not in the MINI only race
that this was a race and not a track day? yes, it was a race
that people put lots of money into these events/cars because theyre serious about their passion and want it to be more than a hobby? yes. lots of money
that the people in the stands were disrespectful? yes.
i only see 1 no answer... the porsche shouldnt have been on the track during the race.
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 10,340
Likes: 5
From: Woodside, CA
If some are upset that Tim was on the track with a Porsche...
you have a beef with Phil Wicks. It's his race series, and he makes these calls. It wasn't Tim's decisions to make, so one shouldn't blame him.
Matt
Matt
5th Gear
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
From: Arroyo Del Valle
Tim was the one who decided to drive his car on the track and crashed it. But that is a different matter as is the way Phil Wicks runs his events. My question was for you since you are the one who is here and posting this message calling Mini owners arrogant and inciting the outbursts here. I'm interested to hear why you chose to frame it that way.