Need a new car to replace my '01 E46 BMW 330 convertible. Needs to be 4 seats, convertible, stick shift. Which ends up being slim pickings. The E93 seemed like the logical next step, but I'm having second thoughts about reliabiliy, MPGs, and price. Now considering a Mini Cooper S as well. Also has horrible reliability ratings (makes sense), although maybe not quite as bad as the BMW. I wrench on my own cars, so minor stuff isn't a huge deal, and if I can fix a known problem and be done with it, ok. I just don't want to spend all my free time working on it.
So, driving characteristics aside (I think I'd be happy with either one--gen 2 might be more fun to drive, Gen 3 more refined), should I get a gen 2 or 3? Looking at reliability/price here primarily, mileage in the 50k range
--Looks like I should at least stick with an N18 engine
--Looking around, seems that a nice 2011-2015 can be had in the $11-15k range. 2016+ are upper teens to low 20k for similar.

Is the reliability on the Gen 3's that much better?

 

It depends on what is most important to you. I think the Gen2 is more fun to drive, but the rear seats are tiny. I have had 4 adults in my R56S - once. Yes stick with the N18 engine, it has not had the problems that the N14 had. The Gen3 4 door has a lot more room in the back but that's not the convertible. I'd say you'll have to try both for size then decide.

 

I cant give you a comparison nor reliability information since I have only owned my F55S since Jan (no problems so far), but I feel like you should have better pricing. I picked up my 2015 4door for 16k (listed at 18k) from Mini of Daytona (now closed) with 26k miles on it. Now it doesn't have a lot of options (no led or infotainment/nav) and maybe the combination of color (VO) with manual and low options made it cheaper but other cars I looked at had similar price points. Maybe expand your search area and ship a car and negotiate hard.

I'm an idiot, I missed your convertible requirement.

 

Let me be the first to say, don't overlook the first generation MINI. The 2005-2008 convertible are great cars. Less refined that later generations, but, in my humble opinion, more fun to drive.

My R52 has been trouble free since I bought it 2 years ago.

The back seat is small in any MINI convertible. I have ridden in the back once when my daughter was learning to drive a manual. I wouldn't want to spend a lot of time back there, but it should be OK for kids and for occasional adults. If you need more back seat room, the 2 series BMW may be another option.

 

I forget if the F56 convertible comes in a 4 door but if it does get that. The Gen 2 convertible back seats are only for kids not adults. You'll have trouble finding a manual Gen 3 car no matter what it is.

 

Well, went to the Mini dealer today. Drove a 2010 JCW. Man, what a blast. I assume this is significantly quicker than the standard S? It was definitely quicker than my BMW, and I loved taking the turns (also drove a 2018 golf sportwagen afterwards. I should have done that the other way around...). However, 2 times that I spun it up it felt like it misfired around 4500-5k. Second time the CEL came on, but then went off. I couldn't get it to do it again. The salesman kept on insisting that maybe I was pushing the engine too hard, or imagining it, LOL. Maybe an omen with the N14. Still, $13500 with 50k doesn't seem too bad. Checked out the rear seats in that one and a gen 3. With the seat adjusted for me, there's 5" to the front seat in the gen 2 and 7" in the gen 3. Interestingly, the gen 3 rear leg room is greater than the BMW. 2" is quite a bit. I also liked the seats and overall ergonomics better in the gen 3, but not enough to make up for the price difference. Really I think I'd do OK with either one. Is the gen 3 that much more reliable than the N18? As far as the gen 1, it's just too old for me to be a daily driver that I'm regularly taking long distances.

 

The oldest gen 3 cars are just barely hitting 6 years currently, so long term reliability is still a bit of a guessing game. Limited sample size.

I don't think the gen 3 is trending to be significantly more reliable than the N18, unfortunately it sounds like you are comparing gen3 vs N14 unless you keep up the search.

The JCW you drove is significantly faster than the S. Roughly 30HP and similar ft*lbs worth. Sounds like the one you drove may be having issues with the overboost protocol? Total guess.

OT: I had to laugh at your comment on test drive order. I did the same thing to myself with a Civic Sport and Civic Type R last year. The Civic Sport is a really good car for the money, but it just felt like a complete turd after driving the bonkers CTR.

Further OT: How did you like the GSW? I haven't driven a long-roof VW for ~7 years but they are continually on my short list of cars to consider. One of the last manual wagons ever. [in the US market]

 

Just for giggles, lets say a person wanted to spend about $15,000 for a fun MINI, but had concerns about reliability, expensive repairs, buying someone else's problems, down time in the shop if something went bump....

Let's say that person said, "What the heck, you only live once."

Let's say that person went to a MINI dealer, spotted a new 2019 convertible with a nice interior, S trim and power, and brand spankin' factory-fresh new everything.

Let's say that person did some quick back-of-the-envelope math and said to the dealer, "Look, if you can figure out a way to lease me this car for 3 years/30,000 miles, with a total cost to me of under 15 grand, including all drive-offs and monthly lease payments for 3 years, I'll sign the papers right now."

So, after 3 hopefully, and probably, trouble-free years, and 30,000 grin-inducing miles, this person turns in the leased car and has.... nothing, and must start over.

Might just be worth it. I've done it many, many times. Still no regrets.

 

Rent vs Own is one of those weird arguments where logic and math don't matter as much as personal preference. =P

 

So true.

A very famous bankruptcy lawyer liked to say, "Buy the most house you can afford and the cheapest car you can stand." While probably good advice, it came from a lawyer who wasn't a car enthusiast.

People who are drawn to the MINI brand, as a general observation, tend to have more complex relationships with their cars -- joy enters into the equation, and other intangibles.

I don't want to ever do the math to determine how much I've spent buying and leasing cars over these many decades. I do know that my 1971 Toyota Corolla 1600 wagon, purchased new off the dealer lot for less than 2 grand and driven for about a quarter of a million miles, and then traded in for $1,000 in 1981, was, without a doubt, the cheapest transportation I'll ever hope to own. And Generally speaking, from a dollars-and-cents perspective, a solid, basic, fix-it-anywhere car, purchased slightly used (2~4 years old), and then driven for 100,000 miles or more, even with repairs as needed, will usually be by far the cheapest way to go.

Yeah, I grind hard on the deals, but, in the end, it's the cars, not the deals that we drive. And I want to enjoy what I drive, even if I pay too much for the grins.

 

Eh, my DNA won't let me lease. I bought my current car with 135k miles 8 years ago for $7500. Now with 230k, and I can probably still get a couple k when I sell it. Fairly reliable, and the parts aren't what kill you. As much as I liked that JCW, I think I'll look around a bit more. But man, I liked it. I'm going to really compare prices on the gen 2/3. The extra room in the 3 is a pretty big deal, but not a deal breaker. Again, driving a 19 year old BMW can't be THAT much more reliable than an N18, right

I do think I'm going to get the VW. I like a wagon. It's for the wife. She will absolutely not let me get a stick (for her). Her current is an '05 Mazda 6 wagon, which is fun to drive, powerful (220ish hp), and the most reliable thing ever. I don't want to get rid of it. Still a baby (125k miles).

 

You're wise.
I'm a new car smell addict. Expensive vice.

 

 

Hmmm...

19 year old, 200k mi BMW = reliable
E93 replacement BMW = reliability concerns

So.. as someone casually interested in owning an I6, when did BMW stop making bulletproof engines? Was it the introduction of VANOS? We had a VANOS failure on our R56, but it was hardly a big deal.

I'm totally on board with the whole blind faith of "old cars are majestic and new cars are crap" mentality, but BMW seems to have the most varied reliability opinions of any brand I've heard... and I daily a FIAT...

So what's up?

Then back to your regularly scheduled MINI shopping. =P

 

Well nola mike, I've tried many different bottles of new car smell and leather scent, in a desperate attempt to replicate the high one gets from genuine new car smell. A few months ago I found an old leather scent tree in the boot of one of the old Jags, evidence of another failed attempt.

Each time I try, it falls short and back to the dealer with my checkbook I go to get yet another car. ... Though I believe I can quit any time I want, my wife says the only cure for me will be embalming fluid. Humm. Wonder if that smells like a new car???

 

I have no first hand experience owning a Gen 2. I test drove several during my search, and ended up with an 06 S. I would by Gen 1 all day long, and twice on Sunday.

I would also go out to the garage right now and drive my Gen 1 across the country... without any worries.

I did my homework, found a solid car with 80k on it, earmarked about $2000 toward work that I felt necessary to ensure it was reliable (clutch swap, etc), as part of the purchase price. Buy the car you want, but I wouldn't write off Gen 1 cars because of perceived unreliability issues.

 

The JCW that you tested has the N14 engine. Stay away. That engine in S or JCW form isa complete nightmare. Mark my words.

 

Ok, that JCW is still for sale. Price dropped to $11.5k. I'm seriously tempted at this point, especially since I haven't been able to find a comparable S at this price. So is this engine something that remains problematic, or is it something that once the deficiencies are fixed will be a reliable motor?

 

If this is the engine with the timing chain problems, stay far, far away.

 

Well...
have been eyeing a 2014 jcw for 6 weeks. Happened to be in atl for the weekend and bought it. 16k for 55k miles. Maybe a little much, but this car is a unicorn. As far as I can tell the car has every option. I'm pretty psyched. My 330 feels like a school bus in comparison. Next challenge: 2 kids in the back seat

 

Congrats! The N18 in our JCW Paceman has been a total peach, treat it well and it will treat you well. The kids should enjoy the challenge of strapping into the pocket rocket. Kids love go-karts!

 

Just got it delivered today. WOW, is it different than the Bimmer! Going to post my thoughts when I have more time.

 

Ok, so I'm loving the car so far. It's got some serious turbo lag, but I love the feeling when it comes on. Still haven't tried the kids in the back, but screw 'em. But man, it is...mini. No way in hell I can put the fam + luggage in that thing. I may put a hitch on there with a platform, though that's kind of lame. Any other luggage solutions? It is so nimble, so quick. So much less refined than the bimmer. Ergonomics completely suck. The nav system + app connect is worthless. No gauges, except for the useless openometer. Instead of a boost gauge? Temp gauge? volts? oil pressure? C'mon. Got it inspected beforehand at a local (atlanta) mini indy, who must have reported every single scuff and chip. Got me nervous reading the report. Worst things were undercarriage rust (he said it was fasteners, nothing structural) and he said he thought the clutch was going. Not sure what he's basing that on, he said it chattered. It feels fine to me. I'd be surprised if the clutch went at 60k, but who knows. I'm sure it's been driven hard (I mean, that's what it was built for). I got him to deliver it free. Also, saw that it has an integral audio sub in the back (taking up more of my space). Looks like an expensive upgrade, and the system does sound great. I feel like this is somewhere between the more practical BMW and the miata that I wanted.

Also, ended up buying the sportwagen 3 days before and surprising my wife. 2017 SE with 20k miles. Even put the bow on it because we always make fun of those stupid commercials. I really like that car as well. Feels quick, simple interior, but feels very quality/solid. The electronics are light years ahead of the mini. And it gets unreal mileage--I averaged 40 mpg with a full car at 70 mph, and 34 mpg at 80 mph on regular fuel, which is incredible. The mini is getting 37 mpg at 70 mph and 32 mpg at 80 mph, which is still great, but premium gas is a 30% penalty. I'm probably going to experiment with lower octane and see what happens when I'm taking highway trips.

 

My wife had the same conundrum in
replacing her 2001 VW Cabrio last month
and found the MINI convertible’s boot
space just too small for vacations, etc.
She got a 2020 M240i convertible with
manual transmission and an extra 3 years
of warranty and is absolutely loving it.

 

well...
Not sure we're talking about the same price, uh, universe there. Very nice. But honestly didn't know the vert was offered with the stick after the e93 in anything other than true m trim. I still did want to step up my mpgs though. I think that most any car that I buy today should get better mileage than it's 20 year old equivalent.