I was going to be all in on the electric MINI. However I think other companies are going to quickly accelerate past MINI in price and performance. Probably wait for the new VW entrants.

 

Agreed. Considering the time delay of getting to market this car deserved to be an EV built from the ground up, not a stopgap retrofit. Even if it had to be a 2022 M.Y.

 

I don't have a problem with a 150 mile range EV- at $22k before incentives. I do have a problem with one that will likely be $40k+ to start before incentives that is not a market leader. It's cute, but cute only goes so far when there is a Tesla Model 3 base model that does everything better and has a stronger brand cachet. It's not like BMW is going to bring reliability and ease of service to the EV game to compete with Tesla either. BMW is a notoriously garbage brand of car when it comes to both things and so I would rather buy a proven brand (that is also rubbish...). I will own a BMW product as an older car to play with and use as a toy but just can't justify purchasing one new until they start to match Hyundai on their basic warranty or Toyota on reputation.

 

Maybe not building an EV from the ground up was the reason BMW’s CEO resigned last week. I like the way VW is moving. I’ll wait for their products also.

 

Ugh, yeah, they really should have announced official pricing today as part of the press release. Still way too much speculation. I think I believe the $30k range before incentives. So, out the door price around $25k ... I could deal with that as a value proposition. However EV depreciation is pretty abysmal so I still think I'd prefer to buy something like an E-Golf today and pick up a lease return Cooper S E for ~$14k in two years. It's a Mini, the decision is going to boil down to "how does it make you feel" at the end of the day, logic be damned.

I agree that the VW ID looks quite nice, though I'm surprised it appears to be Polo sized and not Golf sized (works for me!) Gotta keep people hungry for the crossover version I guess. I really really like the looks of the Honda E (with the exception of the camera side "mirrors"), but it won't reach the US for pretty obvious reasons.

Funny how manufacturers keep using "city car" and "urban mobility lifestyle vehicle" buzzwords to justify small cell EVs when there is effectively zero infrastructure in place to support city dwellers without a garage.

 

I don’t see this as a problem around here. We have a gazillion people who live in the suburbs around here who drive 10 to 30 miles each way to and from work. They all have multicar garages that can easily handle this. A car like this would be perfect for them. But they would all prefer to drive their 6000 lb full size PU truck or Suburban with one person in it instead. This is going to take a huge cultural change to get people to switch to any EV. Maybe double or triple the gas tax will get people there.

 

100% agreed, yet I don't see these individuals being targeted in marketing.

Getting people to stop commuting in their utility vehicles is going to be a big hurdle for EVs. Running costs need to become more expensive than owning separate vehicles for work and play or car sharing services need to get a LOT better.

Edit:
Just had an oddball thought... My issue with the "city car" marketing is that it gives us suburbanites an easy out to say "Naw, that wouldn't fit my lifestyle". What if there was a way to disprove this?

I'm thinking a Cooper S E loaner fleet for extended test drives. Get on a waiting list, get a car for 2-3 days, and get a feel for what life with an EV is really like. Heck, Tesla has a 7-day return policy, why not let people dip their toes in before they fully commit. (Note: This type of program would work for any EV manufacturer, just using Mini as a relevant example.)

 

 

So MiniAndo and Eddie07S, are you guys trading your current MINIs for the new MINI EV?

 

Just FYI, its not all black and white (city vs suburbia). I live in Houston proper. Literally like 7 miles from downtown. I'm in a single family home in a quiet residential neighborhood, two-car garage, carport and nice driveway.
And there are plenty of other similar neighborhoods within just a couple miles of downtown.
My commute to work is 6 miles on city streets. 1/4 mile from my office is a whole foods with charging stations. I'm probably the key demographic for an EV.
I won't be ordering one though! No way. lol

 

I guess we'll know in March. Sounds like my wife was happy with the reveal, and still open to a lease up to a certain amount. Have never leased a car so I've got plenty of research to do before March to ensure we don't get hosed. I'll say, definitely maybe! But like I said before, the proof is in the test drive. If it's not fun to drive, it's not a Mini. Also depends what we can get for the 6MT JCW Paceman. It's a bit of a unicorn, but that doesn't mean it's valuable. =/

Yes, my apologies for over simplifying the City/Suburb market division. There are plenty like you, but if you can easily expand your market you should. EV manufacturers are doing themselves a disservice by labeling their low range products as "city cars" when they can easily work for anyone with a round trip commute of ~70 mi or less (certainly more in a climate without extreme temps). In fact, us folks with slightly longer commutes will see the benefits of EV running costs much sooner than those with a single digit commute.

I like the concept of an EV from a logical standpoint, more efficient, lower running costs, but I agree, no way am I making the switch right now. I'll drive my Abarth until it's a smoldering pile of Italian cliches thank you very much!

Now that I know the MCSE is available in March I have a ticking clock. It's like a challenge! I need to find a good deal on an R53 or R58 before March to keep our streak of manual only going. I think the R58 is the easier sell. She misses the heck out of her R56, getting behind the wheel of another true 2nd gen Mini is going to make her relapse, I'm sure of it. ;]

 

Not sure we would pull the trigger on the first year of any new car line. It doesn’t matter the manufacturer. But, my wife has wanted one for a long time. It is just that ether they are Camery replacements or uber expensive. She doesn’t want big; her ‘04 replaced a Jeep Grand Cherokee once the kids left and she drove a 9 passenger Chevy wagon before that... She has no interest in going back to that. We looked at the i3 but quickly declined because of the really odd size tires they put on it and we need snows for the winter. So we have waited. The MINI SE holds some promise. But it is definitely a wait and see.

A side question always pops into my head every time the postman comes - why has the USPS not gone to EV? That would make huge sense for so many reasons. Think of the development it would fund. I have a friend who had something to do with the State’s motor pool and he talked them into getting some hybrids to try out. Yup, it saved a ton of tax money.

And just a little background on me...
We have 4800 watts of solar on the roof (that is all the roof would fit).
I live 1.8 miles from where I used work and walked it for a number of years (something like half way around the world number of years)
There is a full size grocery store a mile from my house.
We currently own 3 MINIs and had a 4th (a 2007 MCS), so we know the good and the bad about these cars.
We have worked at leaving something worldly behind other than a mess behind for our kids and grandkids. I am hopeful that EV development across the board is part of that.
And I take my MINI to the track... so I’m not perfect.

 

They use EVs and they will be moving to more of them. Plenty of stories on line about it.

 

An electric Mini, does nothing for me, but I am an enthusiast and not a commuter! I leave the electric cars to the new age guys!
I am pretty sure fossil fuels will outlast me, or an acceptable alternative liquid fuel, will come to pass! (that is less damaging on the environment!)
Electric cars have a very bad waste product: Worn out large quantity of Earth damaging waste! Everyone thinks electric is better, but I see it as trading one thing bad for the world, with another, is no fix!
Lets figure how to get enough free heat to run a Stirling engine, without the impact of the others!

 

Agreed Wayne, EVs aren't magically going to fix our destruction of our planet, but a full conversion should significantly slow it down. I used the same argument against Prius fanatics all the time but some light research revels that we have come a long way even in the last ten years in regards to the mining, manufacturing, and safe disposal of batteries. That doesn't mean I agree with the whole "600 mile range or bust" trend, batteries and motors should still be kept to a reasonable spec.

As far as saving the earth, the tendency to treat cars as disposable tech that must be replaced every 3 years for the next model is far more damaging to the environment than continuing to drive an ICE powered car that has long since recovered its manufacturing impact. Those 300,000 mile VW diesel owners are doing the earth a solid by not replacing them with a fancy new EV.

From an enthusiast perspective there's no way the EV Mini will be as fun as rowing your own in a wailing R53 or a crackling F56, but I'm trying to keep an open mind. At the end of the day, it's not my car. I don't think our R61 is an enthusiast car even with JCW farkles and three pedals, but it's special in it's own way. I'm assuming I'll feel the same way about the MCSE.

I'm happy to have a Paceman in the garage instead of a CR-V, so logically I'd be pleased to see an EV Mini every morning instead of a Model3/Bolt/etc. So yeah, it's not going to ever feel like a true enthusiast's car, but it's going to have heaps more character than 90% of the cars on the road.

And here I thought it was just because they are still waiting for the fleet of Grumman LLVs to break down. =P

 

I’ve missed that one and no local fanfare about it happening. I guess it is slow to get here and what I have seen recently is what appear to be brand new gas powered postal vehicles. Thanks, I’ll look into it.

That unfortunately is the truth. This country has done poorly at managing waste. States try, for example the core charge on batteries and upfront disposal fee for tires. The same needs to happen for EVs. Also, something needs to be done on the production side too. And, unfortunately, there is no one really good correct answer for any of this.

Solar with a big magnifying glass? Not very portable though. A lot of really good idea are limited by the available energy sources and their power density. Gas seems to have a lock on that one. Ugh!

 

And this doesn’t help...
https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/9/20...-specs-release

 

Oddly enough my main take away from that article was that they consider the i3 to be an SUV... Uh, sure, it seems like a rollover risk, but so is my FIAT if you try hard enough.

 

There's an article about the electric Mini in Motoringfile the other day. Base price is $30k (before incentives). Said the combination of the electric motor and the traction control system should make this the best autocross Mini ever wrt handling/cornering and power. Sounds like much more of a go cart type Mini than the 3500 pound station wagon Clubman that I'll probably buy next year lol. I bet it's a gas to drive, and at around $25k pretty reasonable too.

 

I bet you it isn't a gas to drive! More like an electric to drive.

 

SCCA doesn’t allow the Fiat, except the Abarth, in autocross... Just sayin’...

But the i3 is, what, 6 or 8 year old technology? They do make the point that within a year MIN’s field of competition is going to be very large. Presumably those other cars will be running the latest technology. MINI will be running on a broken leg before they leave the starting gate. They missed the opportunity to do something new, like they did on the Gen I MINI.Part of my frustration with the MINI brand is that they are becoming more of a Toyota Camery while trying to make sales on their name and what they used to be. BMW as a whole has lost touch with their roots, MINI along with it, and they still think their name is enough to carry them. Well, they are loosing market share for what they think should work.

What do you think the chance is that they will postpone the release of the SE for a year, redo it and get it right? Or do you think that there is enough upfront interest in the SE, just because it is a MINI, that they will make a play for whatever they can get of the market and say good enough for now?

 

In general I'm very lukewarm on BMWs right now. Sure, they make some great track tools that you can also daily drive, but there's no soul anymore. That soulessness is definitely present in the 3rd gen new MINIs, just to a lesser extent.

And the difference that makes it legal is just a ~1.5" ride height drop... Really makes you think. 0.o

Sadly, my wife actually refuses to autocross my Abarth for this reason. She has done a few ride along with me, but she doesn't feel comfortable enough pushing it hard to co-drive it at competitive events. =/

Depends on what "get it right" means. Bigger battery bigger motor to make it into an affordable sports EV? They could do it. Total redesign? Certainly not. I'm sure it's in process already, but we wont see it for 4-5 years. The SE is definitely a stopgap solution. We'll see in March... if I don't find a better ICE MINI in the meantime! >=]

 

The Abarth is 1.5” lower than the 500? Wow... And MINI thought 10mm drop with the optional JCW sports suspension was something to brag about..

You are dead on about the “soulessness” of BMWs. I have driven my cousin’s M2 and have a new JCW. After driving each, I get back into my R56 MCS and thinks to myself... What a fun car!

“Get it right” - I am thinking there must be things in the way of battery, controller and motor development that they could implement in about a year. In everything that I am reading about the SE they point out that it is base on the i3 and that is said not as a good thing. So it seems that there has been development out there, beyond that of the i3, that could be put into the SE without having to do a full redesign. Weight also has to be a factor. The SE has about the same Hp as my MCS and yet it is almost a second slower 0-60. That says weight. It seems they did nothing to improve upon that. This could have been another aspect they could have done something about without having to create a new car. Crash testing would have been required for the added weight, so either way that would be in the mix for putting the SE on the market. Unfortunately, the way this car seems to have been put on the market reminds me of how GM developed a Diesel engine for their passenger cars - on the cheap and half done. And we all know how that worked out... not good.

 

... Yeah... that didn't sound right... The difference is only 15mm... I was thinking of someone with a 500 Sport that lowered it to run in NOC by height/width measurement.

Egg on my face =/

Though this does remind me... I need to take measurements of the Paceman. My wife wants to autocross it (because she can), but it's not classed (because it's an SUV). Should be low/wide enough. My car is just as tall as it and nearly a foot thinner.

Anyway.... way off topic here. Can't wait to drive the MCSE... but admittedly my expectations are pretty low at this point.

 

Motoringfile released prices of all the 2020 Minis. The JCW Clubman is $39,400, the JCS Countryman is $41,400. Wonder why it's $2k more, they're pretty much the same car with different rear entry doors right?