Hello all,

First off let me say I love my mini very much! BUT, No matter the car there is always room for improvement. With that said, I have an idea to take a hardtop to the next level. However, i'd like some input on this before I do it.

My idea:

Take a 2 door cooper hardtop and put in the drivetrain from a countryman all4. Now obviously there will be some major cutting and welding involved to put a rear diff and driveshaft in a car that was not designed to have one. That part is a given! The part i'm worried about the most is if the motor and trans from the countryman will fit under the stock sheetmetal of the hardtop. If everything works right, I would have the perfect sleeper 2 door hardtop with all wheel drive. Does anyone see any problems with doing this conversion? Any and all help would be greatly appreciated!

 

Not with a mini, but I used to work for International Harvester. Had a customer with a two wheel drive Scout wanted to convert to 4x4. We did but was an awful lot of parts. Good luck. Big bite. Cheaper to buy the financial shed product.

 

I'm assuming that the ECU and other computer related parts are needed to make the ALL4 work, don't see how you get past that. Not so far in the future the hardtop will probably have an ALL4 option.

 

Yes the ECU and everything would be transferred as well. I have spoke to Mini USA and they have officially said they there are no plans whatsoever to make an all4 cooper. That's why I thought I'd build my own.

DaGriz, I've converted 2 wheel drive trucks to 4 wheel drive in the past. That was actually pretty easy. So, I know roughly what this entails, I just don't know if everything will fit like I want it too.

Another question I have is the cooper motor and the countryman motor are both 1.6 liters. Does anyone know if it's the same motor or are they different blocks?

 

The twini has been done before with an r53. The builder Put the whole front drivetrain and motor in the hatch, that's the way to do it. Honestly though unless you have money your sick of looking at why bother? Your going to destroy the weight balance and suspension geometry.

 

It is the same motor, but there might be differences in mounting holes, etc. Nothing that can't be overcome with basic fabrication techniques.

Minor glitch is if there is room in the tunnel for both the exhaust and driveshaft.

This would be a fun project. People are going to ***** about how it will drastically change the characteristics of the car and this this is tantamount to sacrilege, blah, blah, blah.

Like others have said, the big headache may be the ECU integration.

 

turn this around, you are setting off the spend several 10ks and countless hours on a project, is a 180hp 4x4 mini really the best thing you can think of?

 

Bavmotors, I've seen the "twini"you speak of. And in my opinion, It's not for me. I understand he built it for a specific reason and that's cool. I'm not knocking it. The idea that I have for this is that if I pull up next to you at a stoplight, you won't have any idea that it's all wheel drive. It will still have the same interior, electric windows, etc. Think sleeper! The power to weight ratio on this thing will be insane! I love racing and I can't wait to see the look on some mustang owners face when he gets outran by a mini! :-)

Cerenkov, What kind of issues do you see with the ECU being swapped over? It shouldn't be a problem cause it won't know the difference of what car it will be in. I'll use the same wiring harness and everything else it so it shouldn't matter. At least I hope it won't! Lol There won't be a backseat in the car so I have no problem widening out the tunnel or making it taller so thats not a problem to me. And possibly having to build new motor mounts isn't a problem either. I'm just happy that they are the same motor cause that tells me that it will fit under the stock body. And yes, I'm sure there will be some out there that will turn their nose up at it cause I changed it, or it wasn't meant to be done, or whatever. But, when Carroll Shelby took his idea for the cobra to Chevrolet before going to Ford, They told him he was crazy! Look how that turned out! :-)

gjxj, I'm not worried about spending countless hours on a project cause this what I like to do. And no it won't be a 180hp! The horsepower will most likely end up somewhere around 350-400.

 

What is your plan to get to 350-400hp? Sounds like you'll be the first one to do that, if you want that your going to need two engines. The twini has something in the 500 range with two fully built engines.

 

Actually, That number is not as hard to get to as one might think. There are already several mini's that have over 350hp. There's more of them out there than you think. I don't know all the specific details about what you have to do inside the motor cause i'm not an engine builder by no means! But, a major upgrade to the turbo will definitely be on the list! As i'm sure you have figured out, I think outside the box. Way outside the box! Maybe even try a twin turbo set up if possible. Don't know if it will work, but ya never know till you try!

 

Getting to 400 whp (and beyond) is possible with "big" turbo builds. The issue becomes one of traction, hence the desire to go AWD.

Instead of twin-turbos it might be a better option to go with variable-geometry turbo. There is just very limited room for a large turbo let alone two turbos and associated piping.

As far as the ECUs goes, if you move everything over it will definitely minimize your issues but there is bound to be some unforeseen complications. The wiring harness probably won't align with everything correctly. Nothing that can't be solved. My question is how does the ALL4 AWD drive system actually work? Is all time AWD, is 50/50, is there torque vectoring? Can this be reprogramed?

 

There's about a 5" difference in the wheelbase. So the driveshaft will have to be shortened which is not a big deal.

Here's a decent image of the undercarriage of a Countryman.

 

I'm not sure yet how the all wheel drive works yet. I'm finding that it's a little difficult to find the actual specs on it and the closest dealership is 3 hours away so I haven't had a chance to go by and ask yet. My plan is too make it AWD all the time but, that may have to change depending on how the system actually works. I have a very good friend who is a computer programmer that is very good with writing programs so if it can be redone to match what I want he will be able to do it. The twin turbo idea is really just an a idea. I'm sure it's possible but not sure if it's actually practical. I don't know much about the variable-geometry turbo. Guess i'll need to look into it. Can you tell me roughly how it works?

 

I wasn't sure about the overall length exactly but I knew it was longer. Shortening the driveshaft will be easy. We have a really good shop here in town so i'll just need to measure it and give it to them and they take care of the rest.

 

It will have a roll cage which will help but mounting the rear suspension might be a little difficult. I'll just have to get in there and see what all will need to be strengthened or whatever.

 

It's an attempt to get power in both the low and high rpm ranges using a single turbo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variab...y_turbocharger

 

Ok, that's basically what I thought it was. I'll have to do some research on it and see if that will work for what I want to do.

 

The ALL4 is close to 50:50 normally and can distribute full power to the front by axle, not by wheel, like X-Drive can do. It's managed by the DSC module.

 

Ok so if it delivers power to front by the axle then with a tweak to the DSC module and the possible use of a gear locker that could be used to keep the transfer case at AWD all the time. Thanks siriuszero!

 

Let's see. Cut up the floor pan, tub the car, build a tube frame, locate suspension pickup points, revise the suspension, shorten the driveshaft, make a new fuel tank, work out the engine and drivetrain mounting points.

Yeah, sure--have it done in a weekend...

This is the sort of thing that can best be described as "pipe dream". Unless, of course, you actually build one. But I've seen about six hundred projects like this started, and only one or maybe two done to the point where they were driveable.

 

Slave maybe it is a pipe dream or maybe I actually build it. Right now, it's simply an idea which is why I asked for input. So unless you have some actual thoughts about and would like to contribute, I suggest you go troll somewhere else please! Good day!

 

can't blame him, honestly theres a Post like this every month, you rarely see a build happen. Aside from soccerbummers epic turbo build its all talk. Love to see it happen but we believe it when we see it, most don't have the funds or time to ever make it happen.

 

I understand that completely! But why bother commenting if all you are gonna do is be a troll? Yes this is an idea. And maybe I won't ever build it, or maybe I start to build it and don't finish it. That's up to me! So, if anyone else wants to troll, go somewhere else please!!

 

Here's an overview: http://www.motoringfile.com/2011/12/...tem-clarified/. I doubt that the dealer knows technical details -- they will have to look everything up. The service documents dealers and independent shops use can be accessed online: https://www.minitis.com/ (subscription, $30 for 1-day access).

The software side of it may be at least as difficult as the mechanical. Everything is proprietary and you will have to hack and reverse engineer it. Aftermarket tuners had to put considerable effort into breaking into the BMW's ECU code.

 

Thank you rkw! That helps a lot! I'll pass this on to my computer guy and have him check it out.