General MINI Talk Shared experiences, motoring minutes, and other general MINI-related discussion that applies to all MINIs, regardless of model, year or trim.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Oils Ain't Oils, How Did Your Oil Perform...

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jul 8, 2014 | 01:16 PM
  #1  
Systemlord's Avatar
Systemlord
Thread Starter
|
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,428
Likes: 37
From: Mission Viejo, CA
Oils Ain't Oils, How Did Your Oil Perform...

Interesting oil testing article!

Motor Oil Test
 
Reply
Old Jul 8, 2014 | 02:21 PM
  #2  
lsmith42's Avatar
lsmith42
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Didn't speak well of BMW's recommended Castrol, but confirms why I've used Royal Purple when I race...
 
Reply
Old Jul 8, 2014 | 02:24 PM
  #3  
rckrzy1's Avatar
rckrzy1
6th Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,417
Likes: 16
that's not the castrol edge MINI oil. And I already knew mobil 1 was crap, saw a report on that years ago, even their synth blend tested better. I think Amsoil is the best for the money, they tested very high. But all reports and white papers say the same about mobil 1 . I don't know about RP , I do know redline is quality stuff.
 
Reply
Old Jul 8, 2014 | 02:58 PM
  #4  
ocluck's Avatar
ocluck
2nd Gear
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
wow, i was going to buy mobil1... not anymore. guess, i'll stick with castro at the dealer!
 
Reply
Old Jul 8, 2014 | 04:44 PM
  #5  
kyoo's Avatar
kyoo
6th Gear
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,631
Likes: 72
lol i've never used any of the oils in this test in any of my cars
 
Reply
Old Jul 8, 2014 | 05:52 PM
  #6  
markjenn's Avatar
markjenn
5th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 779
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by Systemlord
Interesting oil testing article!

Motor Oil Test
FYI, this (very old) test has been widely criticized as being technically flawed from the moment it was published as the testing apparatus is designed to test greases, not oils. In fact, the folks that did the test eventually printed this retraction:

"If there's one thing we try and do here at Street Commodores, it's give you, our readers un-biased info on which products are good, and which ones suck. There's so much BS marketing guff out there, that it can be tough to nut out which products can walk the walk – so that's where we come in, doing our best to sort the Holdens from the Lada Nivas.
A few months back (issue 108), you might remember we did an oil comparison. At the time, we thought it was a bloody good thing, and we don't mind telling you we were pretty proud to publish an article that basically bagged a heap of big name brands. You see, at Street Commodores, we can't, and won't be bought. We like to play things straight. And in the name of playing things straight, we'd like to tell you what has happened since that story went to print.
Basically, we made a few oil companies very cross, and some others quite happy; but we've also been educated some more on engine oils, and being the type of publication that we are, we wanted to fill you in on it. The information we've learned since then suggests the test we performed may be irrelevant. Some sources have advised us that the test we used would have been better served testing some of our favourite greases rather than the engine oils we commonly use on our street cars. Sure, we did the test with the best intentions, with a level playing field for each oil and no preconceptions as to who would perform better than another, but when, and if, we mess up, we like to think that we're man enough to set the record straight."
You can even make the technical argument the things that make a motor oil do well in this test are probably not the things you want most in a motor oil.

- Mark
 
Reply
Old Jul 8, 2014 | 06:16 PM
  #7  
rough68fish's Avatar
rough68fish
3rd Gear
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 216
Likes: 0
From: Damascus, MD
Very much wrong with that test

I'm not sure what you can actually take away from that article.

First most of those oils are polymer blends which are designed to flow easily at low temperature and only reach the desired viscosity at temperature. There is no mention of bringing the oils up to operating temperature so they would be performing at the low viscosity, zero in some cases. Remember that when you blast down the road right after starting the car.

Also they are applying continuos pressure at a specific point on a bearing surfaces in an engine are not designed to operate like that so the lubricants are not either.
 
Reply
Old Jul 8, 2014 | 07:24 PM
  #8  
ashchuckton's Avatar
ashchuckton
5th Gear
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 999
Likes: 10
From: Nunavut
Yep it's a BS test.
 
Reply
Old Jul 8, 2014 | 08:33 PM
  #9  
Systemlord's Avatar
Systemlord
Thread Starter
|
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,428
Likes: 37
From: Mission Viejo, CA
Originally Posted by ashchuckton
Yep it's a BS test.
I wouldn't go as far as to say that the whole tests was BS, sure it might not be the best way to measure an oils performance, with that said there has to be at best a tiny bit of true to the test of oil film strength. If there were a way to test oils film strengths I'm sure haven't seen any.
 
Reply
Old Jul 9, 2014 | 05:49 AM
  #10  
danjreed's Avatar
danjreed
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,894
Likes: 8
From: Philly PA
<<<@!1!@>>>

This ^^^


Head and Shoulders shampoo can beat that test.
 
Reply
Old Jul 9, 2014 | 06:14 AM
  #11  
thirdlobe's Avatar
thirdlobe
2nd Gear
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
If you want to do your own case test, try Blackstone. I have used them in the past and have been very pleased with the service and data.

I can tell you I have used Mobil 1, RP, Castrol and Rotella. I have been happy with each. I have found that Rotella and Mobil 1 could have gone on longer change intervals than RP in my case. I later found out that RP base formula was a discontinued M1 formula they purchased.

I did these tests years ago when I had a Subaru and had oil consumption issues with a good healthy motor.

Take that for what its worth.
 
Reply
Old Jul 9, 2014 | 06:26 AM
  #12  
ZippyNH's Avatar
ZippyNH
6th Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,605
Likes: 41
From: Southern NH
Originally Posted by markjenn
FYI, this (very old) test has been widely criticized as being technically flawed from the moment it was published as the testing apparatus is designed to test greases, not oils. In fact, the folks that did the test eventually printed this retraction:



You can even make the technical argument the things that make a motor oil do well in this test are probably not the things you want most in a motor oil.

- Mark
+1
Yup....
Same test has been posted many times....
And debunked as junk science...
Here and on many sites like the bobsoilguy site where many engineers are posters...
I do find it funny that the test methods are so bad that the SOAP I WASH MY HAIR WITH does better in their testing methodolgy than motor oils.....but I would not put a bottle of PANTENE®™ crankcase.........
 
Reply
Old Jul 9, 2014 | 06:37 AM
  #13  
ashchuckton's Avatar
ashchuckton
5th Gear
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 999
Likes: 10
From: Nunavut
Originally Posted by Systemlord
I wouldn't go as far as to say that the whole tests was BS, sure it might not be the best way to measure an oils performance, with that said there has to be at best a tiny bit of true to the test of oil film strength. If there were a way to test oils film strengths I'm sure haven't seen any.
You wouldn't, but I sure would. That test is designed to sell snake oil or whatever oil the operator wants. BS science = junk science. I'm going to the store for Head & Shoulders, it's the best! Should I add a cream rinse additive?

Thanks for posting that very informative video danjreed.
 
Reply
Old Jul 9, 2014 | 07:26 AM
  #14  
rckrzy1's Avatar
rckrzy1
6th Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,417
Likes: 16
Originally Posted by thirdlobe
If you want to do your own case test, try Blackstone. I have used them in the past and have been very pleased with the service and data.

I can tell you I have used Mobil 1, RP, Castrol and Rotella. I have been happy with each. I have found that Rotella and Mobil 1 could have gone on longer change intervals than RP in my case. I later found out that RP base formula was a discontinued M1 formula they purchased.

I did these tests years ago when I had a Subaru and had oil consumption issues with a good healthy motor.

Take that for what its worth.
I was using mobil 1 in my trans am and did blackstone tests at every oil change, then I switched to Q (quaker state full synth ) and my engine wear dropped about 30% and stayed that way. I never used mobil 1 again.
 
Reply
Old Jul 9, 2014 | 12:05 PM
  #15  
Systemlord's Avatar
Systemlord
Thread Starter
|
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,428
Likes: 37
From: Mission Viejo, CA
Originally Posted by danjreed
<<<@!1!@>>>

This ^^^

Head and Shoulders shampoo can beat that test.
All I can say is that I'm shocked, I believed the article "Oils Ain't Oils" for over a year and it turns out that the tests from Royal Purple are botched. Oils do perform better with heat at about 180 degrees fahrenheit, not when cold. If heat is what activates the anti-wear agents in oils, my interpretation is give your engine a few minutes to get that oil warmer.


One thing that test did show was how the oils behaved once heated up, at Royal Purples website they test other brands of oil first to heat up the spinning metal wheel then they test their oil now that the spinning metal wheel is hot and therefore activating the RP's anti-wear additives. I was a sucker, I'm still glad I started this thread as it puts things into perspective now. The only real test requires you start with an engine for each brand of oil and run it for 10k, then dismantle all engines and check for wear.
 
Reply
Old Jul 9, 2014 | 12:31 PM
  #16  
thirdlobe's Avatar
thirdlobe
2nd Gear
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by rckrzy1
I was using mobil 1 in my trans am and did blackstone tests at every oil change, then I switched to Q (quaker state full synth ) and my engine wear dropped about 30% and stayed that way. I never used mobil 1 again.
That is news to me - I was never a Q guy but maybe its time to look into it.
 
Reply
Old Jul 9, 2014 | 12:40 PM
  #17  
kyoo's Avatar
kyoo
6th Gear
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,631
Likes: 72
also keep in mind every car is different. certain motors just don't like certain oils - i.e., evos for some reason just don't particularly like royal purple
 
Reply
Old Jul 9, 2014 | 01:01 PM
  #18  
rckrzy1's Avatar
rckrzy1
6th Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,417
Likes: 16
Originally Posted by thirdlobe
That is news to me - I was never a Q guy but maybe its time to look into it.
My TA was mobil 1 from the factory but I saw something a few years back about mobil 1 changing their formula and it was not as good, since I had years of documented wear from blackstone I switched around 70K and the wear was seriously reduced and the results stayed that way.

But never owning a turbo car before I'm staying with MINI branded edge for now, at 6K I will soon test my oil and see what it looks like. I also plan to have them see how far I could go with the MINI oil. My car wants 9K between, I doubt I'll go much past 7K . My wifes 2011 states about 15K , NO WAY I'm ever going to wait that long.
 
Reply
Old Jul 10, 2014 | 06:45 AM
  #19  
broncobuddha's Avatar
broncobuddha
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Well, next time around, I may use Royal Purple or Redline, but for the money, I'm good with Castrol Edge, 0w-40 European formula. Right on the bottle, it says it meets BMW long life specs.
 
Reply
Old Jul 10, 2014 | 06:52 AM
  #20  
rckrzy1's Avatar
rckrzy1
6th Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,417
Likes: 16
Originally Posted by broncobuddha
Well, next time around, I may use Royal Purple or Redline, but for the money, I'm good with Castrol Edge, 0w-40 European formula. Right on the bottle, it says it meets BMW long life specs.
I would be the edge European too but it cost more at autozone than the MINI branded edge from dealer, it's like $9 a qt vs $8 .
 
Reply
Old Jul 10, 2014 | 07:23 AM
  #21  
broncobuddha's Avatar
broncobuddha
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by rckrzy1
I would be the edge European too but it cost more at autozone than the MINI branded edge from dealer, it's like $9 a qt vs $8 .
You're absolutely right it is, but my local Walmart had a 5 quart jug of it for like $35. Can't beat that.
 
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
CardinalsRule
General MINI Talk
9
Jun 11, 2016 04:34 PM
molala
MINIs & Minis for Sale
1
Oct 2, 2015 01:53 PM
Mini Mania
Drivetrain Products
0
Sep 4, 2015 09:10 AM
Mini Mania
Drivetrain Products
0
Sep 3, 2015 03:01 PM
Mini Mania
Drivetrain Products
0
Sep 2, 2015 09:05 AM




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:29 PM.