Hi folks.

I have to thank you all for the wealth of information on this forum. But I have to say what I've been discovering is not what I was hoping to read. My wife and I were really pumped on getting a new Mini only to find out after some research that it may be a real bad move.

So before I move my focus elsewhere I'd like to ask a few of questions.

1) After being made aware of the all the problems with the 2nd generation, would I be mad to still consider buying a 2013 MCS?

2) Do you consider the probability of issues arising increase with the version? Base --> S --> JCW

3) Would you recommend staying away from the 2013 and wait for the 2014? Or perhaps wait for 2015? (doubt I could hold out longer than this year though)

In general what I'm struggling with is ... is it reasonable to think that one can mitigate reliability risk with careful maintenance and possibly extended warranty? I'd hate to give up on this car. It's really a perfect fit for what we are looking for.

Thanks for your time.
Rob

 

Not mad at all. Sure, people have had issues, but I don't think they're nearly as common as it might seem from reading the forums -- people area always going to be more likely to post about problems than to post about not having any.

It is probably true that the turbo engines are potentially more problematic than the standard Cooper version, I don't think it's that much of an issue. I had an '09 Cooper that I traded in for a '12 S this summer, and I couldn't be happier with it. I haven't had any problems with either of them.

In my opinion, the 2012+ minis are the most solidly built and reliable versions. Most of the more common issues with the R56 platform have been worked out at this point. If you wait for the 2014, it will be a whole new car, and with that, the potential for new problems.

 

you will find "horror" stories about EVERY car maker..usually in car forums by a minority of owners who sadly had a crappy experience. The SILENT majority are out on the road enjoying their MINI.

 

If I were going to buy new at this point I would have to wait for the new models to be released. Since they are going to look different, you should be able to get a pretty great discount on a new '12 or '13 if you find a dealer with some still in stock.

I personally hate buying a new car, just to have it updated a few months later thus making my "new" car look like one from 2007.

Basically, if you're considering waiting for the new models to at least be revealed/announced, then that's what you should do. At that point choose between a new '14 model or a new '13 model.

 

I love my Mini - however - if I had it to do over again I would have bought a different vehicle

I am scared with all the timing chain, carbon build up, and clutch issues

No way I would buy a first gen car - the 2nd one is much more solid IMO

 

You're in a tough position. TBH I would wait to see what the F56 looks like later on this year. Yeah it'll be the first model year of the third gen. but without even knowing the entire story of the new model pre-judging its reliability is almost speculating.

The upshot of buying now is that you will be buying the most mature/reliable of the 2nd generation MINI. Without going to heavy into details you're getting, among other things an improved clutch and engine.

But honestly we don't know enough about the F56 to really say it wouldn't be worth the wait. Reading this makes me drool:

http://www.motoringfile.com/2012/09/...-need-to-know/

 

I just leased a 2013 Clubman S for three years, 45,000 miles. I'm not worried about reliability as the car is covered by warranty. And driving the car is the BEST part of my day

 

Since you asked, here's my view: Buy what you want when you want it. Plan on the warranty protecting you. You have time to decide to pick up the extended warranty (as well as the extended maintenance plan). Don't assume changes in styling will be an improvement. I, for one, think the R53 interiors are better than anything released since. If you are in a position to wait for the beginning of the next model year the discounts will be steeper, but only for in-stock vehicles. I recently had opportunity to save plenty on an in-stock 2012 Coupe, but preferred configuring a 2013. Good luck.

 

Thanks for the replies. It's a good point that horror stories can appear to be bigger issues than they really are. But, correct me if I'm wrong, the timing chain issue is the same for all 2007+. I'm ok with doing frequent oil changes and checking slack to avoid major damage. Sure would be nice to know if BMW has quietly improved the life of the timing assembly. The carbon buildup I think can be avoided (need to look further into this). Early HPFPs had problems for many brands. I think manufacturers like Bosch have this worked out now. Water pump .

Like most people here, I'm a research freak. I like to go into these major purchases with my eyes open. A forum of this quality is a huge resource. Knowing there's an abundance of obsessed owners to offer advice is a big plus in my books. The other thing I have to figure out is how good is my local dealer's service dept. I bought a BMW from them about 10 years. There was one early warranty issue that they took care. There's no better way to see a dealer's true colors. If there's anyone in the Ottawa, Ontario area that has experience ... I'd be happy to get a PM. As long as the dealer is not a nightmare dealing with warranty work I guess we shouldn't worry too much.

 

Thanks for sharing the Motoring File article...interesting read!

I picked up an almost brand new 2012 MCS last year and it has performed perfectly. I was planning on quickly handing it down to my daughter but I'm having second thoughts and I may want to keep it for myself and buy her a "Justa"

As others have suggested, all brands have issues and online forums typically inspire people to complain, however I'm sold on the brand and the service support. FWIW, I'm a long time Porsche 911 pilot and I was skeptical until I pushed the have-fun button

Good luck in your decision-making process and purchasing adventure!

 

I come from the same world of Porsche and daily drove those cars for quite some time until I got sick of the issues with my modern Porsches. As stated before, every car made will have issues. Go to any car forum and you'll find issues being complained about.

These cars are fun to drive and due to that factor, some cars are pushed harder than one would in a Corolla, Civic, Camry or Accord. Hence reading about more issues with these Mini's.

If you want dead nuts reliability, then you need to be shopping the mainstream products such as the above mentioned Honda and Toyota products and then expect to have a very sedate, unconnected driving experience. Mini simply does not have the volume of sales to allow them to spend the money on R&D to insure 100% complete reliability (and I bet no manufacture has that sort of R&D budget for any model made).

I just bought a new 2013 base Hardtop. Yeah, I may have issues in the future, but this car is too much fun to pass up and worry about what may (or may not) break. I'm driving it, going to maintain it to a high degree, not beat on it and am positive the 4 year, 50,000 mile warranty will help keep problems from affecting my check book for awhile.

If you love the Mini, buy a new one (if you can) that YOU know how it was treated from day one, use the warranty (if even needed) to fix any issues, work carefully with your dealer, maintain it, and most importantly, don't pass up / miss out on the immense fun that these cars are. My base, low option car is more fun to drive than some of my Porsche's were and if you know how much I enjoy driving, that's a pretty big compliment to Mini.

 

My 2011 only had to have the thermostat replaced at 23K miles and two recalls done at the same time around 35K miles. Other than that, 2011's have been just as good as the 12' and 13'. But Definitely from 11+ the newer engine has been slightly better for MINI. Pull the trigger if you love more power in general. If not, the base is also a great MINI too.

 

Sage advice from an obvious driving enthusiast, which is really what Minis are all about: they are damn fun to drive and like anything mechanical, require proactive maintenance and care.

FWIW re Porsches: my current 911 (and the one that I've had the longest) is a 1980 911SC Targa and it won't be pried out of my hands until I'm unable to get in or out of her! That said, I'm very interested in a 2009 or 2010 C4S; what a rear end!

 

I'll say upfront that I'm currently waiting for delivery of my new 2013 MCS, so my overall position on the purchase decision is pretty clear.

But I went through some of the same concerns you're expressing. Here are a few things that convinced me to go ahead and buy:

• The current base-model MINI is recommended by Consumer Reports, so reliability can't be that bad.
• MINIs in general have very high resale values and high customer satisfaction ratings. I think I read they have the highest resale value in their class, but maybe I'm misremembering. But the bottom line is that these are reasonable metrics for how owners really feel about them in the real world. And the answer is: they like 'em!
• BMW/MINI have the habit of quietly improving designs. Presumably due to this, I consistently read the advice to buy the most-recent vintage MINI you can afford, and to avoid the first year or two of a new model. By that logic, the current generation MINI is the best bet from a reliability standpoint, since a brand new model is imminent.
• Getting a turbo (S model) or JCW will probably reduce reliability, but it's very hard to figure out if this is because those models are inherently less reliable, or because people who buy them tend to drive them harder. No doubt the truth is a mix of these reasons. So I figure if you buy an S or JCW and take care of it, you should be OK.
• This is a MINI board, which means most people here are either enthusiastic fans of the brand or else disgruntled owners who want to share their pain. So you're likely to see the two ends of the happiness spectrum, rather than the much larger group of people in the middle for whom it's just a cute/fun/practical/whatever car.
• An extended warranty can reduce the financial risk of reliability issues, but doesn't help much with the time and frustration. If having car trouble would be a major inconvenience for you, e.g. if you do a lot of driving every day and can't be without a car, then you need to weigh reliability more heavily in your decision.

Good luck on your choice!

-Brett

 

I've had the Dread Pirate since December 2010. It has 22k miles on it and has had the thermostat replaced once. I have since added a bunch of stuff (see below) and drive... with vigor. I've had nary a problem.

To the above dude who is scared driving your MINI... Geez, brother, I'm 49 and would hate to live like that.

 

I've also had my S since late December 2010. It currently has just shy of 14k miles on it, and the only problem I had with it was a wind/water leak around the driver's door that was repaired under warranty. There have also been a couple of recalls for stuff that had not yet become a problem on my car, likewise taken care of under warranty. I'm **** about oil & filter changes and using good fuel, and it bugs me if something isn't right; even so I've had no issues. Someone is going to get a good car when I pick up my new JCW next month.

That said, if you're really worried about reliability, stick with a non-turbo car (Cooper). Most of the scary-sounding issues that people have been discussing on NAM and other places are specific to the S & JCW models; the normally-aspirated cars fare better through mechanical simplicity. Don't sell the Coopers short - I've had several Coopers as loaner cars, and was impressed with them.

As to the now or wait question, my thought is to go with one of the current production cars - they're the best examples of the R56-series cars, with several years of refinement and improvement. Most of the known bugs/issues have been sorted already. Waiting for the 2014 models means you'll be one of the early-adopters. You'll have the pride of being seen in the newest model, possibly countered by the annoyance of bugs or issues that will have to be dealt with in subsequent model years.

 

Proud owner of a 1st Gen. 2006 MCS, original owner. Solid car, and I have the "burble".

But, I do like that new coupe. If I where in the market for a new one, I'd consider it. But I'll also keep my Gen 1, burble and all.

 

In the 8,000 miles we've put on our Mini since February of last year (holy crap, it's been a year almost), our warranty has come in handy for a defective knock sensor. I love the car, and personally want a little more power (who doesn't), but the timing chain issues with the S scare me a bit. If you're interested in newer S, I would most definitely recommend new with a warranty, but keep in mind, problems are overrepresented on forums since a fair deal of people actually come TO these forums for advice on the issues they are having.

 

You can always buy the extended warranty if you are concerned about a major mechanical issue. Also, while I love my 2nd generation car I will concede that the trend at MINI is away from its initial design roots. IMHO the design is inching towards the center and as such the appeal of the design is less compelling to enthusiasts.

A big part of the magic of a MINI was that while it was an inexpensive car it was seen as somehow pure enough to be considered an enthusiasts car. No one would ever be surprised to see a celebrity stepping out of his or her MINI at a gala or a country club - something you would never say about almost any other econobox.

My big concern with the upcoming F56 is that while it may in fact be a superior car it could just loose it biggest intangible asset - the magic of the MINI image, where it somehow transcends the fact that it's really just a fun to drive economy car.

 

Well, I guess I have a few things to think about. I'll go back to lurking mode ... unless I have something useful to offer. My buying window is at least 3 months away. That gives me time to weigh my options. Thanks again folks, appreciate the input.

 

To anyone looking to talk themselves out of a MINI purchase, "Don't test drive one".

My wife and I tested a 2013 Bayswater last week. We loved it. I started a thread describing our first impressions, but the moderators didn't let it through . No idea why. Anyway quick points. 1) Not sure why all the fuss about the 17" run-flats. We found the ride softer than expected. 2) The 181hp ?ft.lb. torque is deceiving. The engine felt very eager and quick. Pulled nicely and I didn't notice any turbo lag. 3) Bizarre turn signals. 4) Great exhaust note. Didn't notice any popping or burble. However we weren't flogging it by any means. 5) Clutch and shifting were nice and smooth. Never tried but I hope it allows matching rev downshifts. Some new cars block throttle input when the brake is applied.

So where are we now? Working out a deal on a chili red MCS, black top and stripes, sport suspension, black rims, carbon black lounge leather, xenon black headlights, and wired pkg. Opting for the 6 year 200000km extended warranty.

 

The '12 and earlier cars allow you to blip the throttle while braking, letting you practice your heel-and-toe technique to your heart's content. It does take more of a push on the throttle in my '12 Justa than I am used to from my other cars, though.

 

I guess the forum is wrong and run flats are great

They suck - spend any amount of time behind the wheel and you will find out they suck

Mine spent 300 miles on my car before I replaced them - best thing you can do - get some Kuhmo Ecsta 4x

 

I'm not saying the rest of the forum is wrong about run flats. Clearly most people don't like them. There are posts I've read by people like myself that don't find them too bad. I have spent 12000km in a Cayman S that has 19" run flats so it's not like these are the first I've ever tried. I was just surprised that the ride was so friendly especially when so many reviews complain about the rough ride. If you think the MINI is harsh on RFTs you should go for a ride in a CS.

 

IMHO any 1st year car after a "refresh", even a new model like the Paceman, would be off my radar, if you can wait, then wait.