Hi all
New here and learning a lot.

I've been a car leaser in the past and am looking to make my first purchase ever. Always been a fan of MINI and looking at going into a new 2012 base hardtop. With the low apr deals happening right now I believe I should probably qualify for the lowest apr. Credit score is around 680-700 range. Looking at 1.9% 5 years. This is what I'm looking at http://www.miniofdesmoines.com/Vehic...-IA/1776965223
Love that British racing Green!

So my 2 real questions are:
1. How much is a fair purchase price that perhaps those more experienced would negotiate to. I've tried using KBB and edmunds but with all the mini options i can't seem to pinpoint a solid price. Also keep in mind I will be going for that low apr. Down payment of $4000

2. In the past lease hidden fees have surprised me. I know I will have the standard license, registration, title fees required by state. Sales tax I believe will be added to monthly payments? Documentation fee - should I negotiate for that? Is ACQUISITION fee a fee I will see financing for purchase through MINI or is that a strict lease fee? And most important what other hidden fees should I be aware of?

Hoping keep my monthly payments around $350ish don't know if that is unreasonable as I'm not quite sure on all the fees beyond that advertised msrp.


Any help would be great as I am a car buying noob right now.

 

There isn't a lot of margin in these cars. I think my clubman was prices about $1200 more than dealer cost. I'll defer to some of the more experienced members on cost stuff. I don't know how much wiggle room you'll have in price.

I didn't have any surprise add ons BUT there are a few things that can drive up the price like extended warranty, tire replacement plan, key fob replacement plan etc. I would look at all those things and figure out what you feel is right for you and the car your buying and know that going in as well.

My MA told me since I don't have the run flats the tire plan wasn't cost effective and he didn't recommend it. You also don't have to buy the extended warranty right away.

I did buy the key fob replacement plan because it was something like $200 and I have a swimming pool. I figure it's just a matter of time so why not.

 

Edmunds has a good discussion on fees (search it!) but there are government fees like titles, etc and there are taxes. When I negotiate a price, I never include these - keep it simply base plus options pluis destination fee. Some MSRP numbers INCLUDE destination fee - others do not, so know that before diving in. One "fee" that is popular is the documentation fee which can run in the hundreds. I consider it padded profit and ask that it be no more than $100. But here's the deal - because it is a "fee", the dealership may run into class action lawsuit vulnerability if they change it for one customer and not the other. So they'll probably take the difference off the negotiated price. Never discuss in terms of monthly payment - just talk price above INVOICE. Monthly payments is a matter of financing, not car price. Once you have the agreed price, see what that means in terms of your (hopefully) prearranged line of credit (more hopefully with a good bank or credit union).

Just my 2 cents.

 

Mark-up on a MINI is about 10%. As you are buying a stock unit there should be some room for negotiations. And kidziti gave you the best advice -- never negotiate for a payment, always a bottom line price.

 

fwiw, I don't think your credit score will qualify you for the lowest rate.

If you are able to, I'd suggest obtaining credit approval from another source (e.g. credit union) before trying to make the purchase. You will know you have the approval, reducing stress over that so you can focus more on the deal and then you can use it to drive down the interest rate the dealer will offer you.

 

The "Acquisition Fee" is a leasing term. It is added to the lease cap cost by the lender and effectively raises their interest charge. Some manufacturers allow dealers to "pad" this fee.

Dealer's typically will charge you a documentation fee. These can range from around $100 to as much as more than a thousand. Other dealers do not charge them at all and some States do not allow them or have limitations on the amount.

Their argument will be if we charge one person we must charge all people the same. Simply not true in most jurisdictions. Do not discuss the DOC fee until you have agreed upon an acceptable price before tax. When they add the fee and it is more than $100, simply refuse to pay it or you won't buy the vehicle. They can always charge you the fee but give you additional discount that is equivalent and that is always legal.

With a 700 credit score and $4,000 cash down, you will qualify for the promotional rate.

 

All great information that I'll definitely have to consider.

kidziti - I'll have to visit the kbb discussions to look further into the fees. Thanks for the heads up about the destination charge possibly not being included in the msrp, I'll definitely have to look out for that.

PJD - thanks for the heads up on the extended warranty stuff. I think I'll look into that later as you relayed that they can be purchased as at a later time. Also if you don't mind revealing about how much were you able to negotiate down... few hundred? Is that logical to be shooting for?


Thanks All
I'll make sure to negotiate bottom line price and NOT payments.
NOT accept acquisition fee as that is a lease only fee
and keep the DOC fee below $100

Any more help will be greatly appreciated. Like I said I can't really pinpoint an invoice price using the kbb and edmunds tools because of all the options. If anyone would like to reveal how much down (few hundred, a thousand, or more) that they were able to obtain or what I should shoot for, that would be helpful as well.

Thanks so much for those replying!

 

Couple tips I can offer after purchasing a car this week

1. Use Costco pricing as a way to gauge what type of deal you can get. Costco generally has great pricing and while not all participate, it doesn't mean you can't go to a different state to buy it. Costco in Boston was offering the best price so me bring from NY had to use their price as a point to negotiate from with the dealer. So I suggest contacting your nearest participating Costco dealership and finding the lowest price for your custom-made Mini. Then contact the nearest MINI dealership and start at that price when negotiating.

2. Use PenFed to negotiate APR. My dealer tried to screw me with 3.79% over 60 months and 9k down. I looked around, asked on this forum and PenFed came into the picture. With my 760 credit score I was offered 1.49%, which I then used as leverage with the dealership. Ultimately got 1.84 since it is much more convenient to go through the dealer for financing than a different institution.

3. Fees you already cleared up seems like.

 

Most of the information is found through well-versed Google searches - I'd shoot some links but don't have time to hunt them all down at the moment. I will say that Truecar.com is the site where I was able to find 2013 Mini INVOICE and MSRP prices on every option and package. Just TrueCar the model and you'll find the options link I believe under the car's image (it's not obvious - you have to look around the page). It's definitely there - so don't give up.

 

I'm just curious what the convenience would be with the dealership vs a credit union?

 

Excellent advice so far.

Beatthecarsalesman.com might help as well. I really like the advice to negotiate up from the invoice price and not down from the asking price.

The sales manager we dealt with was really good at challenging us to meet the asking price. Their game is to talk about monthly payment - as already said don't discuss monthly payments.

Our recent purchase had the one, two punch of car price (ask for the 'drive off' price) and then the finance manager comes in with the extras (warranties, gap insurance, etc). The warranties and gap coverage price are negotiable as well.

 

Honestly I do not remember all the steps I'd have to take but it included faxing the lien holder binder and all that between the dealership and the credit union, then it would hold the whole process up about a week and also having to make payments to two separate places as opposed to one is always a nuisance. Not the biggest of deals, but always easier just to do everything through one place.

 

Be careful of fees like vin etching. The dealer tried to get me for $239 or something like that. Stupid, because prior to that point it was one I the most pleasant car buying experiences to date.

 

We sat down with the finance manager before putting down our deposit to order our Mini, to get an idea of down payment and note. The credit score that was quoted to us was much lower than our 3 score average from credit report. My score is currently 760 and my wife's score is 728. The finance manager said our score was only 697???? I know they use the adjusted score for the automobile industry but damn that's a big difference.

 

Did they provide you with a copy of your scores? I had something similar happen except that they ran my credit after I left. I got a call that my score was lower than I had thought and qualified for an awful rate. I was livid, and I happened to have copies of all three of my reports and scores from a refi I was working on. I mentioned this and the MA said he'd see what he could do. Then, I got a call a few minutes later that I was indeed eligible for their best rate. I will be looking to see a copy of my score when I visit the dealer the next time to pick up my car.

 

There is a difference between the traditional FICO score that more than 90% of credit grantor's use and the Vantage score sold to the public and invented by the three major credit bureaus.

FICO runs from 300-850 and Vantage runs from 501-990. It is very confusing to those who don't deal with it regularly and somewhat misleading to the public. If you don't know your FICO score, sometimes known as Beacon score, you don't really know your credit rating.

 

Yes, I currently have my three score report and monitor my credit through freecreditreport.com. Is there a better service to use?

 

I am so glad I am in Canada and don't need to worry about these crazy fees and finance issues.

 

Pretty sure they have to give you a copy of the credit report (part of the truth in lending laws) if they use it or not to arrainge credit.

 

They are required to give you a copy of your credit report if they reject your application. This does not though require them to give you your FICO score.

 

And remember, any FEE, is what i call a junk fee, or guarenteed profit for a dealer....all fees should be included in the negogated price. Mine was.
Think....do you pay a seperate advertising fee to cover the cost of commercials at a store?
or a paperwork fee to cover the cost of the costs of signing up gor a rental car?
Added fees are just a way to pass on the cost of doing bussiness to the buyer....
So negoate on an out the door price....or you may find youself paying an extra $1000 in fees....

 

I could not agree more. I leased a car Saturday, and the whole process was nice and pleasant then bam, I'm hit with a doc fee of $349?! It was at the end of the day, they had already been closed for 45 min, my two companions were ready to go, but I nearly balked at the entire deal over that. It may sound unreasonable, but to me that's just like throwing $349 down a toilet for all the good it does me. They wouldn't budge and pressure mounted so I went ahead and ate it, but I requested that my MA get with the parts department and try to make it right by adding more than just rubber floor mats. We'll see what he can do.