That depends on how Seafoam is applied. If deposited into the gas tank - you are right, it will never wash over intake valves. If the foam is injected through the vacuum port on the valve cover, it will wash over the intake valves.
http://www.detroittuned.com/sea-foam-n14/

Whether that will be enough to dissolve light carbon build up, or how many applications it would take to make a dent on heavy carbon build-up, is another question. For heavy build-up, I would go with walnut shell blasting at a local independent. Those who have figured out how to do it and have done it before will charge you $250-350 for this service. Dealer will try to charge 2x-3x that.

a

 

Anyone in Atlanta or better yet NE metro Atl who will do it reasonably. I'm getting $400 quotes and Global Imports (Mini dealer) in Chamblee want $950...but that includes resetting the ECU

I'm not sure I need it but I've bought a used one a few months ago. Has 110k and I don't know the history. Seems to idle fine but wish I had x-ray vision

 

$400 is a reasonable price.

 

Wish I knew if it's been done or need it. I'm getting a tune after a few upgrades I'm putting on this weekend and hate to do that without knowing if they're coked up... $$$$.

 

You can remove the intake manifold in about 1 hour and take a peek to see how bad it is. Removing the air filter box takes most of the time. Then it just ~5 nuts and studs on top. You don't need to remove any of the intake tubing to just peek in there. Some model years have bolt underneath on a "knee" brace but it is reachable through the passenger wheel well (don't even need to remove the wheel just turn it). The intake has o-rings that you should be able to reuse not gaskets.

 

Hello, I am new here, and new owner of a 2010 Mini Cooper S Convertible. I took it to the dealership today for an oil change and quick once over to make sure nothing was majorly wrong as the non Mini dealer I bought it from gave me a 3 day return on it. They did the oil change and told me everything looked good. I got around the corner and the check engine light came on - I turned around. They said that it has carbon build up and needs to be cleaned. They said "roughly $850 to cover that plus the intake valve".

I live in the Northern VA/DC metro area. Does anyone know of a qualified/knowledgeable mini shop?

Thanks in advance!

 

I swear those Mini mechanics can't troubleshoot anything without a code being thrown. Did you ask them how they missed the carbon and defective intake valve the first time around? They told you everything was fine, you drive around the corner and now somethings wrong, I'd be very suspicious! Dealers have a funny way about them, you take your car in for something like an oil change and they find more stuff wrong with your car. I don't trust them period! How can they tell if you have a bad intake valve? Ask them the tough questions about how they arrived at their concussions, if you know what to look for you'll know somethings not right.

Just recently I took my Mini in to have my timing chain slack measured and the final revision tensioner installed and they told me that they did not think it was a good idea, the took me back to look at my cam timing and showed me it was off by half a tooth. I told them I had all of my timing chain components replaced almost 2 years ago, they said whoever performed the repair set the cam timing incorrectly, then I told them that they were the ones thar did install my new timing chain and components then silence. All of a sudden they weren't willing to do anything and that it would cost me $800 to properly set my cam timing even though my valve cover, cam timing tool and tensioner to were already installed. All they needed to do was remove cam bolt and sprockets, set cam timing and install new cam bolts. I registered a complaint with BAR. The BAR rep asked the mechanic if he were to pull the specs would my cams be within specs, mechanic replied that my cams would be in spec, so what's the problem? Lol.

 

So, this carbon thing seems a persistent problem and not something I'd be wanting to do every 20K or so. I was thinking of buying a 2nd gen Mini to replace my 05 convert but with the 2nd gen problems I'm reading about here; cam chains guide (on their 3rd redesign!?), high-pressure fuel pump, dealers telling owners to go away (sadly, a personal experience with Mini of Grand Rapids, Michigan) and now regular carbon build up I wonder what I'll find next. I'm giving serious 2nd thoughts on buying a 2nd generation.

 

my 2009 Mini Cooper Hardtop Coupe S just turned 40,000 miles. It will be 7 years old as of October 2015. I've been fortunate to not have to drive/commute as much as I did when I first purchased this car, consequently miles are low for it's age. The car seems to exhibit very good power and response. So I'm very curious how much carbon build-up could be present?

I do take it to the dealer (Southern California Mini Dealer) once or twice per/year to have service. On one occasion, maybe a year ago, I had to replace a turbo line seal (apparently small signs of oil leaking externally) , also a passenger seat airbag sensor (it threw a critical warning indicator). The service technician quoted me like $2800.00 for the job. I sent an e-mail to the general manager inquiring about the expensive service charge, he reduced the total cost to $1300.00 . I was more happy to pay at this point. They (the service manager) actually denote this discount of cost's on the service invoice as "customer cost program" or something like this. It's almost like a BMW Mini "welfare" program

I've been loving my Mini for the most part, and would love to have a brand-new model (2016).

 

No Mini is on the 5th redesigned tensioner, which has been the one major problem all along! It's the final version as it much smoother than any before it!

It's just a sales tactic to real you in and make you think your getting a good deal, the people that doesn't question the excessive dealer prices (wives) fall for it all the time and the husbands go into see the service manager and they reduce the price. Hook, line and sinker!

I've heard these stories countless times before and they never change.

 

Didn't you find this suspicious?

Maybe next time they will quote you $5,800 then "reduce" it down to "only" $2,800. What a deal! They saved you $3000! Wow, glad that they are looking out for you!

Next time get a second opinion from an independent shop. Then you can make an informed decision.

 

Thank you, folks. I'm assuming the 2nd gen engine is a DI, is that so? A friend had a DI sensor failure at 40K and he was charged $900 for the sensor and $240 to install. This is one of the reasons I went with a first gen Mini. It also looks like a good decision because of all the trouble with the HPFPs. Is the HPFP on all 2nd gens with DI or only forced induction cars?
I looked on line for 2005 & 2009 Mini recalls and technical service bulletins. I found that Mini extended the warranty for the electric power steering pumps (mine has been changed), and TSBs for the passenger seat sensor (your sensor might have been covered by that TSB), sudden high-volume oil leaks draining the oil in moments with no pressure or oil level warnings (one car, brand new, before it's first oil change with only 2,700 miles on it - result ruined engine and the dealer said it was his fault.), seat wiring issues, programming issues, mostly on the 2nd gen. This makes me nervous about the 2nd gen. Carbon; Once a month I take a trip from Portland to Seattle (260 miles) and put a 1.5 dose of Chevron fuel system cleaner in my Mini, gassing up to dilute it when I get to Seattle. I'm thinking that is keeping my carbon down.
What's the BAR? When I took my 2005 Mini convertible to Mini of Grand Rapids (Michigan) the sunroof worked but the top wouldn't go down. They gave it back to me with visibly bent passenger side sunroof cassette rails. ($6,000 parts and labor). They told me to pay $300 and take my car and get out. BMW/NA wasn't able to help me, maybe BAR can help. As it stands, my resale value is ruined.
My trust of dealers is ZERO. I do my own work, even to pulling engines and doing overhauls. I don't like how crowded the Mini engine compartment is compared to my Miata. Again, thanks for the info everybody.

 

I haven't had any problems with my MINI. The only time it has seen the dealer has been for a couple of recalls and the free oil changes.

I would argue that most series two MINI owners have had similar experiences.

 

For the 2nd gen cars:

Only the turbo models are DI, so they are the only ones with HPFP. The later model year turbos with the N18 engine do not experience carbon build up as much as much as the earlier N14 engines. Fuel additives will do nothing for the carbon buildup in DI cars since the fuel never sees the intake valves.

 

no, it's not a sales-tactic, it's just dealer high-overhead cost's. The average customer would either: not pay, go to some independent, generic, mom & pop shop, and get sub-par service (using suspect parts source), or pay the higher dealer costs. I just happened to know the general manager in this case.

no, I did'nt find the price-tweaking suspicious. To me, it's a matter of higher overhead costs (at any auto brand manufacturer dealer) versus lower-cost (independent shop) and less, or no, overhead coverage. And we're not talking about $5000.00 in charges in this case. I don't operate on that logic- ie. accepting of a lower percentage of the total cost regardless of original charge, no matter how high the charges.

Unless I know the local independent mechanic well I rather not deal with non manufacture-backed service. You end up paying in the end, one way or another. either suspect source of parts, or poor quality of work, or subsequent mechanical failure with no service liability (customers ultimately file law-suits to recover cost of sub-par service).

 

BAR will get you know where, trust me I've gone that route already twice and have two complaints interestingly enough with the very same Mini mechanic! German autos makers only act if forced to by the NHTSA and multiple lawsuits which Mini USA would have not only made the public eye via TV news, Mini would have lost in court like a domino effect! This forced them to settle out of court offering (timing chain campaigns) refunds for new engines purchased by owner's under warranty with under 10,000 miles on the odometer, some less than 2500 miles on the odometer and those that ditched their Mini's year ago.

Losing power steering while driving can prove fatal which then the NHTSA here in the US won't give Mini/BMW a choice in the matter! A timing chain slipping off both cams not as serious because power steering runs off electronics and not engine belt rotation. Can you imagine how things might have been different if the R56 did have power steering pumps with all the repeated 3-4 timing chain failures for some customers?

In the UK there is no campaign for the timing chain/tensioner issues that plague more because of the colder climate which is where the death rattle rears its ugly head, not so much in warm weather. I think it's because there's not enough lawsuits and I think the legal system is not the same, no Constitution and the politics are also different over their which is why German auto manufactures are used to getting away with so much crap!

German auto manufactures get away with a lot over there and here when the NHTSA doesn't get involved, but when they do German auto manufactures must bend over and start kissing acting as if their glad to help you out on that recall. German auto manufactures better get their act together and start producing and competing on reliability with Honda's, Toyota's, strange thing is people continue to purchase known money black holes (worst customer satisfaction in the auto industry) that not even money can escape the intense gravity and once your caught in the event horizon, your hard earned money and most likely your savings account gets sucked in until it's empty and you hit the escape button!

 

If there's a higher overhead what would compel the dealer to cut $1500 dollars off your price? That's a lot of money to a consumer, you think there trying to win you over? In my experience this tactic leads to a later date in your Mini's life (my experience) when you have a bigger problem where they will milk you, their building up your trust and loyalty in order to take advantage later if there's a problem and chances are high with an R56 S model. Mini managers and Mini owner's have the highest turn over rates in the car industry, fact not opinion!

That doesn't make sense to me, there is however a lot about dealers that does make sense now. The last time I was at my local Mini dealer I choked at the price for a new 5th Gen tensioner as they wanted $179 for it, ESC Tuning sells it for $19.50 5th Gen. When I heart skipped a beat they took notice and immediately dropped the price three times and on the fourth offered me a 10% discount on the third price that they gave me.

I'm sorry but they offer different prices to different customers, I was in line at the parts counter and a guy wanted an oil filter, $16 dollars for that poor fellow, I was charged $9 dollars and bought two of them for $18 dollars. Imagine what that poor guy would have thought if I went up to him and told him I got two filters for the price of one, pissed off would have been his reaction! The dealer isn't your friend, some dealers I'm sure operate differently because of the values and integrity of the owner, but this is not the norm.

I know of many independent shops that offer 2 years parts and unlimited mileage warranty same as the dealer at lower labor cost and most important their honest and have the same diagnostic equipment as the dealer. They live or die by satisfied customer's, the difference between a dealers walnut blasting of the intake valves and my independent shop is $350 versus the dealers price hundreds more. I paid $800 at my local ex- Mini dealer, question is why pay hundreds more when you don't have to? Hay if people want to pay double, triple the price, go for it, it's your money.

 

yeah, you're right for the most part. I'm not being naive here. There definitely is some level, or range, of "price adjustment".

oh, okay, that's what they're doing. I better wake-up then
So you think I should sell my R56 S?

well, give me the name of a few top-notch independent Mini shops in the Los Angeles area

I'm a veteran rice-burner "con-vert". Did the whole Honda street-performance thing for about 15 years. Owned a few Acura Integra's. Bought ton's of after-market accessories. Did the dyno-tuning and everything. Was always at one shop or another, needing this, needing that. It was fun- sort of. Bought my first Mini years later, been happy ever since. Will not ever mess with it either (performance upgrades).

 

I've had two experiences with Mini service. The first was with Mini of Grand Rapids (Michigan). I bought my 05 drop-top from my cousin at an excellent price because the main top didn't work, but the sunroof did. I'm a good wrench, but diagnostics with computer driven cars not so much. I took it to Mini of GR for diagnosis and got it back a week later with visibly bent passenger side sunroof rails and damaged passenger side window seals. When I objected to the damage and asked what they were going to do about it the service rep, basically, told me to pay them $300 and get the f--- out. Experience number two. Moved to Portland, Oregon and took it to Mini of Portland for diagnostics. They gave me a 2015 Mini S to drive (scary in a parking lot when not in Eco), kept my car three days and when I got the call to come get it they said the sunroof cassette was damaged beyond repair, $6,000 parts and labor to replace and only then they could figure out what was wrong with the main top, likely to come to $8,000 total. The service rep handed me my keys and said, "Sorry, we can't do anything for you, so no charge." Now, that's service!!!!

 

yep, there you go

 

The reason it got damaged is because some of these Mini dealers dont know what the heck their doing, when you get a dealer like that stuff is wound to end up damaged. Take them to small claims and make them pay! Some Mini dealers should have their dealership license revoked, but since your dealing with incompetent from Mini USA there's no hope! When there's a real problem MINI dealers open a support ticket to BMW because like a teenage kid their not equipped to deal with the matter, to inexperienced.

 

yes, the customer and/or the dealer can make official complaint to manufacturer (BMW in this case). That's the whole point of using Mini dealer service- BMW backing. I take advantage of this. They, the dealer, have to answer to the manufacturer (BMW Of USA). Especially so in the case (as HyTech explains): "the service rep, basically, told me to pay them $300 and get the f--- out." This sort of behavior should be immediately communicated to BMW USA. You can go on-line (Mini website) and submit complaint.

Depending on the type of damage, or compromised service details, BMW will, in most cases, cover cost(s).

 

Thanks, SystemLord. I contacted, in a paper letter, BMW of North America and they said that they couldn't do anything except call Mini of GR and ask them to settle the issue. I never heard from Mini of GR. I'll pursue Mini's web site again. What can I lose, since my car, as a convertible, is essentially worthless with the non-functioning top.

 

Mini dealers respond well sometimes after you file for small claims because now they have something to fear that this particular customer isn't going to take this lying down, he's going to take this all the way. If I were you I wouldn't go near that Mini dealer because they have already demonstrated incompetence and extreme rudeness, you want a second helping of that? Clearly somebody from BMW needs to come down to that dealer to have a look at your damage before anything is done. Contact BMW and tell them you want them to inspect your damage, they can determine why and how it happened and if the people BMW questions slips up and states how he proceeded to attempt to fix it and the BMW rep knows the mechanic didn't follow proper procedure you'll have a case for BMW to replace or repair all your damage. Anythings possible.

 

Okay, just performed 40,000 mile service on my 2009 Mini Cooper S Hardtop (odometer approx. = 39,990mi).

Dealer performed: 30-point inspection; brake inspection, etc.,...

Performed: oil change; replaced/installed new battery, programmed; replaced/installed spark plugs.

$710.00USD total.

I requested to examine for excessive carbon build-up, and return original spark plugs to me for inspection.

Upon completion of service the service manager relayed communication from technician that (he expressed) everything looks good, no significant carbon build-up (not sure if he was only just peering through spark plug mounting holes?). And that he thought spark plugs look good, considering miles. Although I do notice what seems to be a layer of carbon build-up on face of bottom of spark plug threaded body portion (the small outer-ring portion that would face inward into combustion chamber)?