The Official Babies, Kids, Carseats and MINIs Thread
2nd Gear
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
From: Beautiful Cary, NC, USA
Riding a motorcycle as I do, safety is one of my primary considerations. And as I think about my upcoming mini (it's sitting on the docks as I write this) I too wonder about the safety, visibility, etc. in my little clown car. So I have resolved to try and be as observant and safety conscious in the car as I am on the bike. That really is the only way to survive in an urban environment, to be on constant alert, scanning, planning and (if necessary) executing your contingency plan. It also means being a very defensive driver and (difficult for me) not flipping off every moron that you come across.:smile:
Others here in this very interesting thread have pointed out that the mini is a very nimble car, and you are better prepared to avoid accidents than some lumbering behemoth SUV. True. And so I suggest that all of you, even you guys and gals with no kiddies, take a driving school. There are not many mini organizations or clubs that do this, but I know for a fact that most BMW CCA (Car Club of America) chapters do put on performance driving schools across the country. The club rents a real race track, and you go out there in your little car, wearing a helmet, and you have an instructor with you in the car guiding you as to the proper way to approach turns, braking, accelerating, etc. There are also classroom sessions where you learn about vehicle dynamics and driving techniques. Trust me when I tell you that this is the most fun that you can have out of bed. You will cause a little wear and tear to your tires, but this is nothing that your car can't handle, and you will, I promise, not only have a very enjoyable weekend, but will come out of the experience a better and safer driver. You may also get hooked, and do more and more of these schools.
Obviously I've done these things, in fact, I was an instructor for many years. The mini is the little brother to the BMW, and they will welcome you and make you feel like part of the family. Actually, you will be quite unique, as everyone knows all about the 325 and 330 and M3, but not everyone has seen or sat in a mini.
It ain't cheap, so start saving now.
As for our thread originator, you know... back in the old days, when I was just a tot, my parents drove me and my brother around in their Triumph TR-3. It had a shelf behind the seats, where you could put groceries, or small children. And there we sat. No seat belts, no child safety seats, no airbags, nothing. Somehow we survived.
Michael
Others here in this very interesting thread have pointed out that the mini is a very nimble car, and you are better prepared to avoid accidents than some lumbering behemoth SUV. True. And so I suggest that all of you, even you guys and gals with no kiddies, take a driving school. There are not many mini organizations or clubs that do this, but I know for a fact that most BMW CCA (Car Club of America) chapters do put on performance driving schools across the country. The club rents a real race track, and you go out there in your little car, wearing a helmet, and you have an instructor with you in the car guiding you as to the proper way to approach turns, braking, accelerating, etc. There are also classroom sessions where you learn about vehicle dynamics and driving techniques. Trust me when I tell you that this is the most fun that you can have out of bed. You will cause a little wear and tear to your tires, but this is nothing that your car can't handle, and you will, I promise, not only have a very enjoyable weekend, but will come out of the experience a better and safer driver. You may also get hooked, and do more and more of these schools.
Obviously I've done these things, in fact, I was an instructor for many years. The mini is the little brother to the BMW, and they will welcome you and make you feel like part of the family. Actually, you will be quite unique, as everyone knows all about the 325 and 330 and M3, but not everyone has seen or sat in a mini.
It ain't cheap, so start saving now.
As for our thread originator, you know... back in the old days, when I was just a tot, my parents drove me and my brother around in their Triumph TR-3. It had a shelf behind the seats, where you could put groceries, or small children. And there we sat. No seat belts, no child safety seats, no airbags, nothing. Somehow we survived.
Michael
Vendor & Moderator :: MINI Camera and Video & c3 club forum
iTrader: (6)
I recently attended a driving school at Streets of Willow (without my son in back mind you!!!) and it was certainly one of the best investments I've made for my MINI. I went with nearly bald tires, and learning to drive the track fast with tires that caused me to slide a lot, and taking my car to the limit with and without DSC allowed me to see what happens when conditions aren't ideal.
One thing that I like to do, and the MINI is fully capable of doing this, is always drive in my own cushion of space. This way, I won't be surprised by an inattentive driver near me. So whenever I'm stuck in traffic, I like to be first off the line..probably comes from my motorcycle days, and especially when I'm in an area with twisty roads with big cars or trucks around me--getting out front is a lot safer than risk getting sandwhiched or pushed around as these behemoths cross the lines.
Oh and set up your mirrors like this:
http://www.cartalk.com/content/featu...ors/index.html
Essentially you point your outside mirrors out to become "blind spot" mirrors while your interior mirror serves as an overview of what's behind you. It's a lot more reassuring to drive this way, both at night and when merging on to freeways where blind spots can be down right scary--especially with "precious cargo" on board.
re: Triumph
Ohh so true. LOL.
One thing that I like to do, and the MINI is fully capable of doing this, is always drive in my own cushion of space. This way, I won't be surprised by an inattentive driver near me. So whenever I'm stuck in traffic, I like to be first off the line..probably comes from my motorcycle days, and especially when I'm in an area with twisty roads with big cars or trucks around me--getting out front is a lot safer than risk getting sandwhiched or pushed around as these behemoths cross the lines.
Oh and set up your mirrors like this:
http://www.cartalk.com/content/featu...ors/index.html
Essentially you point your outside mirrors out to become "blind spot" mirrors while your interior mirror serves as an overview of what's behind you. It's a lot more reassuring to drive this way, both at night and when merging on to freeways where blind spots can be down right scary--especially with "precious cargo" on board.
re: Triumph
Ohh so true. LOL.
Originally Posted by Beemer Guy
Riding a motorcycle as I do, safety is one of my primary considerations.
As for our thread originator, you know... back in the old days, when I was just a tot, my parents drove me and my brother around in their Triumph TR-3. It had a shelf behind the seats, where you could put groceries, or small children. And there we sat. No seat belts, no child safety seats, no airbags, nothing. Somehow we survived.
Michael
As for our thread originator, you know... back in the old days, when I was just a tot, my parents drove me and my brother around in their Triumph TR-3. It had a shelf behind the seats, where you could put groceries, or small children. And there we sat. No seat belts, no child safety seats, no airbags, nothing. Somehow we survived.
Michael
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,522
Likes: 7
From: San Diego, CA
Originally Posted by OctaneGuy
Oh and set up your mirrors like this:
http://www.cartalk.com/content/featu...ors/index.html
http://www.cartalk.com/content/featu...ors/index.html
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,188
Likes: 0
From: Chico, CA
What, no legs?
Your troubles are just beginning. . . thank God kids bring so much joy, otherwise no cars, no money, no sleep, less sex, more food, less drink, no friends, more talk and a college education could get you down. I got to 3 kids with my 1976 Sirocco . . . what with the baby seat we could get all three in the back although the seven year old sitting behind me(6'2") had to do the drive from Santa Fe to Yellowstone to Seattle to San Francisco and back to Santa Fe through the night with his legs folded. We had three bikes on the roof too . . . had a little trouble with vapor lock at high altitude although the car soared when we hit that thick air at the coast.
The best family car I ever had was a 1989 Dodge Caravan. You could take that onto the freeway and it would just sit there in the lane. I can recreate the experience by sitting in the living room in my old recliner. Whee!
Your troubles are just beginning . . . worrying about your baby's safety . . . the first one is tough . . . by the time you get to the third you'll let him/her sleep on the rear parcel shelf if that's what he/she wants. But even if you found that solution you'd find your baby growing and legs needing leg room.
On the other hand, passion is precious. You said you can't afford a second car. Truth be know, if you could afford a MINI, you can afford a second car. A used car to take the baby where it needs to go won't cost much. It will give you a chance to see what you're giving up if you go to the Subaru. A great car . . . but without passion.
The best family car I ever had was a 1989 Dodge Caravan. You could take that onto the freeway and it would just sit there in the lane. I can recreate the experience by sitting in the living room in my old recliner. Whee!
Your troubles are just beginning . . . worrying about your baby's safety . . . the first one is tough . . . by the time you get to the third you'll let him/her sleep on the rear parcel shelf if that's what he/she wants. But even if you found that solution you'd find your baby growing and legs needing leg room.
On the other hand, passion is precious. You said you can't afford a second car. Truth be know, if you could afford a MINI, you can afford a second car. A used car to take the baby where it needs to go won't cost much. It will give you a chance to see what you're giving up if you go to the Subaru. A great car . . . but without passion.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,365
Likes: 2
From: Yinzer in Exile
I assume, since you say that "hubby" only drives the car on occasion, that he has another car... but then you said you couldnt' afford a second car, but it sounds like you have 2... and I just don't have the patience to read any more about people selling MINIs for babies.
So, anyway, in my head, I'm playing out the following PURELY HYPOTHETICAL SCENARIO
ME: Leif, I'm knocked up
LEIF: Well, we need a safe car for baby, now go sell the MINI. Get on that.
ME: Mua ha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.... oooooohooohohohohohohohhohohohohhoooohoooo hooo hooo! Oooooooooooeeeeeeeeee... you're a funny one!!! So, how much do you think you'll get for the Z?
THE END.
So, anyway, in my head, I'm playing out the following PURELY HYPOTHETICAL SCENARIO
ME: Leif, I'm knocked up
LEIF: Well, we need a safe car for baby, now go sell the MINI. Get on that.
ME: Mua ha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.... oooooohooohohohohohohohhohohohohhoooohoooo hooo hooo! Oooooooooooeeeeeeeeee... you're a funny one!!! So, how much do you think you'll get for the Z?
THE END.
Banned
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 15,382
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To me child safety is paramount in a car. I cringe when I see kids loose in cars.
That said, I motor with my grandson in my MINI, and he sits in the back, buckled in, and happy as a clam.
These are very safe cars we own. Lots of airbags, good cabin protection, and nimble, so you can hopefully get out of the way and avoid hitting anything.
Now when I had young kids and had a 2 door, it was a pain. But I find the MINI easy to get my grandson in and out of the back.
That said, I motor with my grandson in my MINI, and he sits in the back, buckled in, and happy as a clam.
These are very safe cars we own. Lots of airbags, good cabin protection, and nimble, so you can hopefully get out of the way and avoid hitting anything.
Now when I had young kids and had a 2 door, it was a pain. But I find the MINI easy to get my grandson in and out of the back.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Here is the kind of information I think wannamini_ was looking for. I just stumbled on it on bimmer.org
http://www.informedforlife.org/
While I can not vouch for the validity of the data on this site, it seems pretty objective. The interesting note is that the Mini gets a score of 95 while the Subaru gets a score of 98 (higher seems to be less good here).
So wannamini_ ... wanna keep your mini? I hope this site helps you out!
http://www.informedforlife.org/
While I can not vouch for the validity of the data on this site, it seems pretty objective. The interesting note is that the Mini gets a score of 95 while the Subaru gets a score of 98 (higher seems to be less good here).
So wannamini_ ... wanna keep your mini? I hope this site helps you out!
3rd Gear
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
What gets me about this chart is that that the MC gets dinged ONLY for front impact. Side and rear are better than average or neutral. The ONLY vehicle that survives head on is an M1A1 Abrams TANK!!! 100 is the average score, look at all those that are WORSE!!! Including a lot of vehicles that are a heck of a lot bigger.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,437
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From: With YuccaPatrol
This is a listing of injury, collision, and theft insurance claims for different cars. I had to print it to look at it.
http://www.highwaysafety.org/brochu...f/ictl_0905.pdf
__________________
http://www.highwaysafety.org/brochu...f/ictl_0905.pdf
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2nd Gear
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 141
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There is an interesting note to the data I posted earlier. Apparently, the rear impact testing is the front seat design only. The structure of the car is not tested...
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][size=1]Whiplash neck injury occurs after a vehicle is struck from behind and when the occupant's head lags behind the accelerated motion of the torso. Through proper seat and head restraint design it is possible to minimize the lag between the torso and head acceleration, thereby reducing the stretching of the neck. [/size][/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][size=1]The IIHS evaluates rear crash protection based on the geometry of the head restraints and dynamic testing. Unlike IIHS frontal and side impact crash testing the dynamic rear impact testing does not crash test the entire vehicle. Instead, a dummy is placed on a mock-up of the seat, including head restraint, and the seat is mounted on a laboratory sled. The impact simulates a 20 m.p.h. rear-end collision between two vehicles of equal weight. A "MARGINAL" rating is assumed representative of the "average" car and when a vehicle has not been rated for rear impact a "MARGINAL" rating is therefore assigned. [/size][/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica](http://www.informedforlife.org/components_of_risk.htm) [/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][size=1](III) Rear Impact[/size][/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][size=1]Although only 3% of all traffic fatalities are attributed to rear impact there are some fundamental design considerations that greatly reduce your risk of injury when you are involved in this type of collision.[/size][/font][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][size=1]Whiplash neck injury occurs after a vehicle is struck from behind and when the occupant's head lags behind the accelerated motion of the torso. Through proper seat and head restraint design it is possible to minimize the lag between the torso and head acceleration, thereby reducing the stretching of the neck. [/size][/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][size=1]The IIHS evaluates rear crash protection based on the geometry of the head restraints and dynamic testing. Unlike IIHS frontal and side impact crash testing the dynamic rear impact testing does not crash test the entire vehicle. Instead, a dummy is placed on a mock-up of the seat, including head restraint, and the seat is mounted on a laboratory sled. The impact simulates a 20 m.p.h. rear-end collision between two vehicles of equal weight. A "MARGINAL" rating is assumed representative of the "average" car and when a vehicle has not been rated for rear impact a "MARGINAL" rating is therefore assigned. [/size][/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica](http://www.informedforlife.org/components_of_risk.htm) [/font]
3rd Gear
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
Anyone looking for a SECOND car other than a MC look at those collision numbers. Those are the numbers that determine how much your insurance is going to be. Before I thought of an MC, I checked Acuras. Look at those numbers. I called State Farm and my monthly rate would have DOUBLED!!!!
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,437
Likes: 0
From: With YuccaPatrol
Any testing of the back seat seems to focus on support and prevention of neck injury to adults-not relevent to a small child in car seat. Nobody seems to research this question that I can find.
Coordinator :: Alabama Motoring Society & South East
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 10,170
Likes: 2
From: Burning-Ham Alabama
Originally Posted by PurplePeopleEater
Also better than a LOT of larger cars...........including the Subaru Legacy/Outback 4WD (just to name one)
Vendor & Moderator :: MINI Camera and Video & c3 club forum
iTrader: (6)
The 2005 MC gets a 97 rating which seems a little high at first, but then look at the 2005 Mazda 3--it's got a 130 rating--anything over 100 is Greater than Average Risk
Compiled from: http://www.informedforlife.org
Safety Ratings for 2005 Cars:
(First Number is overall safety rating, lower is better/2nd number is rear crash results which obviously isn't something that's tested much)
64/3 Honda Odessey
79/3 Subaru Outback
85/3 Nissan Murano SUV
97/3 MINI Cooper
100/3 Toyota Landcruiser 4dr
102/3 SCION TC 2dr
105/3 Toyota RAV4 (w side airbags)
106/3 Toyota Prius 4dr
111/3 Toyota Matrix 4dr
124/2 VW New Beetle 2dr (w side airbags)
125/3 Hummer H2
125/3 Hummer H3
137/3 Hummer SUT
130/3 Mazda 3 4R
132/3 Toyota RAV4 (no side airbags)
136/3 SCION Xb
137/3 Honda Element
139/3 SCION Xa
141/3 Toyota MR2 Convertible
156/3 Land Rover Freelander
167/3 Toyota Echo 4DR
According to the 2006 Risk Chart, the MINI moved up a couple notches to 99 while Subaru Outback when down from 79 to 91.
Compiled from: http://www.informedforlife.org
Safety Ratings for 2005 Cars:
(First Number is overall safety rating, lower is better/2nd number is rear crash results which obviously isn't something that's tested much)
64/3 Honda Odessey
79/3 Subaru Outback
85/3 Nissan Murano SUV
97/3 MINI Cooper
100/3 Toyota Landcruiser 4dr
102/3 SCION TC 2dr
105/3 Toyota RAV4 (w side airbags)
106/3 Toyota Prius 4dr
111/3 Toyota Matrix 4dr
124/2 VW New Beetle 2dr (w side airbags)
125/3 Hummer H2
125/3 Hummer H3
137/3 Hummer SUT
130/3 Mazda 3 4R
132/3 Toyota RAV4 (no side airbags)
136/3 SCION Xb
137/3 Honda Element
139/3 SCION Xa
141/3 Toyota MR2 Convertible
156/3 Land Rover Freelander
167/3 Toyota Echo 4DR
According to the 2006 Risk Chart, the MINI moved up a couple notches to 99 while Subaru Outback when down from 79 to 91.
Last edited by OctaneGuy; Nov 4, 2005 at 08:57 AM.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Just for fun... take a look at the score for the Cadillac Escalade...
Also, what fascinates me is how the Mini's score is lowered by its weight... it loses 18 points (I think).
As I have been pondering the idea of rear crush space, I wonder... isn't there more rear crush space in the Mini then there is side crush space in pretty much everything?
Also, an interesting comparison would be to look at how much space there is between the hatch of 3rd row seating equipped vehicles (wiht the third row up) versus the Mini...
Also, what fascinates me is how the Mini's score is lowered by its weight... it loses 18 points (I think).
As I have been pondering the idea of rear crush space, I wonder... isn't there more rear crush space in the Mini then there is side crush space in pretty much everything?
Also, an interesting comparison would be to look at how much space there is between the hatch of 3rd row seating equipped vehicles (wiht the third row up) versus the Mini...
Congrats on your wonderful news! We hope everything goes well for you guys. I know this is a tough decision for you, and wish you luck. Like others have said, you can always buy another MINI at a later date.
As a former EMT and Police Officer, I have seen "safe" cars that didn't fare well in accidents, and cars that many thought were "unsafe" that came through accidents incredibly well. There are no guarantees in accidents, and Murphy's Law applies. Unfortunately, Murphy was an optimist.
While the MINI is a small car, one of the things that sold me on them (okay, I admit it, I wanted a MINI really bad, but this was a final selling point) was their safety innovations. No vehicle is perfectly safe, and despite all the design, construction, and planning, serious injuries can (and often do) happen.
One of the main safety appliances in your car is YOU. Your driving abilities and attitudes will do as much or more to help you avoid an accident than your car will do to protect you during and after an accident. Paying attention to other motorists often will help you see and avoid the ones who are more interested in their cell phones, books, stereo, etc. than the road. Be sure to remember when you pass a "distracted" driver, that they are now behind you and can still be dangerous to you.
As for the issue of the child seat, we don't have kids. However, a friend of ours who is also a MINI Cabrio owner, has twins. She has two child seats in the back of her MINI, and I often see them motoring around town. I think she got her MINI after she had the girls, but I'm not sure. I have never asked her, but I would have to assume that she doesn't have too much difficulty getting the little ones in and out of the car.
Guess I've said more than my 2 cents worth, so I'll sit down now.
CONGRATS AND GOOD LUCK!
As a former EMT and Police Officer, I have seen "safe" cars that didn't fare well in accidents, and cars that many thought were "unsafe" that came through accidents incredibly well. There are no guarantees in accidents, and Murphy's Law applies. Unfortunately, Murphy was an optimist.
While the MINI is a small car, one of the things that sold me on them (okay, I admit it, I wanted a MINI really bad, but this was a final selling point) was their safety innovations. No vehicle is perfectly safe, and despite all the design, construction, and planning, serious injuries can (and often do) happen.
One of the main safety appliances in your car is YOU. Your driving abilities and attitudes will do as much or more to help you avoid an accident than your car will do to protect you during and after an accident. Paying attention to other motorists often will help you see and avoid the ones who are more interested in their cell phones, books, stereo, etc. than the road. Be sure to remember when you pass a "distracted" driver, that they are now behind you and can still be dangerous to you.
As for the issue of the child seat, we don't have kids. However, a friend of ours who is also a MINI Cabrio owner, has twins. She has two child seats in the back of her MINI, and I often see them motoring around town. I think she got her MINI after she had the girls, but I'm not sure. I have never asked her, but I would have to assume that she doesn't have too much difficulty getting the little ones in and out of the car.
Guess I've said more than my 2 cents worth, so I'll sit down now.
CONGRATS AND GOOD LUCK!
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,437
Likes: 0
From: With YuccaPatrol
Originally Posted by Mishka
As for the issue of the child seat, we don't have kids. However, a friend of ours who is also a MINI Cabrio owner, has twin daughters. She has two child seats in the back of her MINI, and I often see them motoring around town. I think she got her MINI after she had the girls, but I'm not sure. I have never asked her, but I would have to assume that she doesn't have too much difficulty getting the little ones in and out of the car.
Thread Starter
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6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,585
Likes: 0
From: USA
Originally Posted by PurplePeopleEater
Is it possible that your husband has it out for Dobby for some other reason? 
But yes, my husband has always been a bit jealous of Dobby!
Thread Starter
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6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,585
Likes: 0
From: USA
Well, shoot. I thought I had my mind made up. 
We had decided on selling it, then a few years down the road, I can get another MINI.
I thought the car I had decided on was a Mazda3 5-door. Easier to get the little one in and out with a rear seat, but still not a Subaru Outback (we nixed that vehicle already). I flat out REFUSE to go with a MiniVan or an SUV. Husband agrees on that one! For crying out loud, it's one kid! I was also taking into account that the resale value on the car is still quite high, and I stand to get way more for it than I still owe on it.
But then I'm back on NAM, and ALL the feelings come right back to me. Just how much I LOVE this freaking car.
But looking at the ratings that you guys posted, I see that the Mazda3 5-door did WAY worse than the MINI in almost every category. I'm still just sooooo confused on what to do...
We came up with the idea that whoever drove the little one to daycare would drive his Sentra, and the other one gets to drive the MINI to work. But then we realized that it would be much better with our schedules for one of us to drop off and the other to pick up. So that nixed that idea.
I just don't get what the big deal is. I'm now seven months along, and we have to make our decision quickly!
We had decided on selling it, then a few years down the road, I can get another MINI.I thought the car I had decided on was a Mazda3 5-door. Easier to get the little one in and out with a rear seat, but still not a Subaru Outback (we nixed that vehicle already). I flat out REFUSE to go with a MiniVan or an SUV. Husband agrees on that one! For crying out loud, it's one kid! I was also taking into account that the resale value on the car is still quite high, and I stand to get way more for it than I still owe on it.
But then I'm back on NAM, and ALL the feelings come right back to me. Just how much I LOVE this freaking car.
But looking at the ratings that you guys posted, I see that the Mazda3 5-door did WAY worse than the MINI in almost every category. I'm still just sooooo confused on what to do...
We came up with the idea that whoever drove the little one to daycare would drive his Sentra, and the other one gets to drive the MINI to work. But then we realized that it would be much better with our schedules for one of us to drop off and the other to pick up. So that nixed that idea.
I just don't get what the big deal is. I'm now seven months along, and we have to make our decision quickly!
Banned
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,756
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Don't sell the MINI! We are also expecting family and we have 2 of them and neither is going away. In fact, we are waiting for the MINI Traveller wagon due to be released in late 2007 or early 2008. Until then, the baby will ride in both of our MINIs as the need arises.