Ok, don't post if all you're going to say is "well, that depends."

Also, please don't hijack the thread!

I've been to the SCCA web site and perused the "Results" section to see what some of the times are. Are all Auto-X courses relatively consistent in curve design and distance within a given organization? The run times seem to be all over the place.

How does a WRX compare to a Z06 Corvette? How does a Mini compare to a 911? Etc...

I ask because there is this guy at work who is a tad Goober and is of the school of thought that horsepower is the end all of an automobile. I'm trying to show him something in figures.

Thanks!

-Jim


_________________
"Mjolnir" | DS/B MCS | Madison, WI

"It's not just a passion, it's an obsession!"

 

All autocross courses are different. There may be some consistency using the same location, based on site restrictions, small areas result in tight, slow courses, large sites get faster more open courses.

We break cars up into classes to keep the playing field relatively level. Horsepower is not enough, you have to have handling. A Z06 corvette in a faster autocross car than a Cooper. But each are very competitive in their own class.

There are lots of cars that are not competitive autocross cars that have lots of horsepower. But a good handling car will generally be competitive.

 

That kinda sucks. Not a good measure. Doesn't length and number/type of turns have all the difference on a run? Why even post the results without details on the track setup?

Couldn't I setup a track where a Mini is favored or any other car for that matter?

So Auto-X is really just for your fun, sorta like masturbation.

-J

 

The way to tell a fast driver is to look at the PAX results of any event. In a MINI you can beat a Z06 in PAX. Think of PAX as a golf handicap only the equipment, i.e the car, creates the advantage and you don't give strokes but time. I can loose to a Z06 by 3 seconds over a 60 second , but with PAX the 'vette needs to give me 3.3 seconds, I win.

 

I drove my mcs in an autocross this weekend, in the Novice class;the last time I drove in an autocross few of you were alive.I don't have my results yet,as the club hasn't posted novice class on the web.The course had a long straight,fastest cars were A production (mostly vets).Two other Minis were entered both were trailered in with 16"racing tires,I assume both were well tuned,as the drivers were serious enough to own trailers and racing tires.The MCS driver was far quicker than I,and a much better driver.However the standard mini driver was so good that he beat the MCS.Remember the fastest cars were big engine rides.Most of us MCS owners on this forum are on a constant quest for horsepower,myself included,Saturday's autox showed me that I would be better served to invest in Driver's school,instead of hp mods.

 

My autocross experience taught me that the Mini doesn't need more horsepower. The best improvement is getting a limited slip differential. It'll be my first mod.

I had a stock MCS in class E (NASAX). I beat the MCS in my class with the chip upgrade / pulley upgrade / exhaust upgrade. I also beat the MCS with enough mods to stick it in class D. The biggest problem I had was managing inside wheel slip coming out of the slow corners, or medium speed corners for that matter.

Alan

 

Alan,

Welcome to MCO!! I would try a larger rear swaybar before going to the expense of an LSD. It has amazed me at the difference in traction. The LSD can also exacerbate the understeer issue.

I found that the springs and rear swaybar made a 2 second difference from a stock car on a 1 minute 25 second road course very consistently. The two big reasons: traction adn reduction of factory programmed understeer.

The driver makes the biggest difference in any motorsport event. I have seen a guy start at the rear of the grid because of qualifying regs then work through the pack in a GT-3 car to beat the top GT-1 finishers (for reference, a GT-3 car is a Toyota Paseo and a GT-1 car is a Trans-am like 600+ hp monster). There are tons of similar stories - the driver makes the car, the car doesn't make the driver (unless you are talking about my mule - then it's the car ).

 

Horsepower is not the end all in motorsports- unless you want to go fast in a straight line only. It's not how fast you go, it's how little you slow down for the twisty bits.
Hijacking ahead!
Before trying a larger rear sway, just lower the pressures in your rear tires to increase their grip relative to the front. Based on SCCA rules and classifications a smaller front sway may be the better route. A LSD equipped car will be quicker but with less grip in the front the car will track around a corner better and you will have to have patience when exiting a corner. Roll on the throttle (it's not a toggle switch)while unwinding the wheel and adjust your entry exit lines as required. The most important factor in autocross is the driver, and remeber 'cars don't understeer- dirver's do!'
Cliche mode-off

 

Damn, I thought I had this figured out! I ran the fronts (Performance Runflats) at max tire pressure and the rears I left alone. I think next time I try a few pounds less in each and see how it goes. And I'll keep the sway bar ideas filed for later too.

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Alan

 

Are all Auto-X courses relatively consistent in curve design and distance within a given organization?

I have "chaired" several auto-x events and designed the track to my favor (small FWD, good handling) with a lot of curves, slalom, and tight turns.
When my high horsepower, RWD friend chaired, he designed long straights, large raddii curves, and no slalom... so yes, it depends....sorry!
>>
>>How does a WRX compare to a Z06 Corvette? How does a Mini compare to a 911? Etc...

If a track is designed on a narrow airstrip with long straights, the Z06 will spank the MINI. On the other hand, if designed on a closed parking lot (my favorite) with more twisties than straights, the MINI might be faster than the Z06...straight time that is. But the PAX will level the playing field.

The reasons for varying times from different events has to do with design and size. Some tracks can have three cars staggered at one time and some tracks one car only at one time. I usually design a balance track to keep everyone happy :smile:
Desiged two tracks that mimicked a miniature Laguna Seca and Sears Point.
I hope that answered some of your questions

 

That's it. You're coming to the next Auto-X event with me :smile:

It's pretty amazing to see the whole spectrum of cars out there. The well prepared cars are pretty obvious, but there are some shockers that look totally sedate.

I've only run one event (in a classic Mini - not in the new one yet!) and it was a total blast! Now if my work schedule would just cooperate a bit more...

-Andy