2006 Formula 1 Discussion Thread
3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 231
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From: Woodbury, CT
Originally Posted by CutnThrust
I may end up eating my words . . . but Alonso has just lost the championship.
He's lost the objective . . . and if he can't get his house in order soon the scale will tip further in Schumacher's favor.
He's lost the objective . . . and if he can't get his house in order soon the scale will tip further in Schumacher's favor.
3rd Gear
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 300
Likes: 0
From: Omaha, NE
Originally Posted by CutnThrust
I may end up eating my words . . . but Alonso has just lost the championship.
He's lost the objective . . . and if he can't get his house in order soon the scale will tip further in Schumacher's favor.
He's lost the objective . . . and if he can't get his house in order soon the scale will tip further in Schumacher's favor.
http://f1.racing-live.com/f1/en/head...04193820.shtml
Alonso just shot himself in the foot with that maneuver. A two second penalty is gonna hurt...on this track especially.
By the way...congrats on the 500th post!
4th Gear
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 385
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles
Originally Posted by J-Stylez
By the way...congrats on the 500th post!
Rats!
Back to topic . . . those penalties are really gonna hurt at the Hungaroring.
I'm really disappointed in Alonso. I am very tired of his fist waving and don't even get me started on the brake testing!
3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
From: Woodbury, CT
Originally Posted by CutnThrust
I'm really disappointed in Alonso. I am very tired of his fist waving and don't even get me started on the brake testing!
5th Gear
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 698
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh, NC
Originally Posted by CutnThrust
I may end up eating my words . . . but Alonso has just lost the championship.
Come Sunday, we'll see Schumacher trailing by 1 point and it'll be game over. At least we'll get to see a real battle to close out the season and see what Fernando's made of.
4th Gear
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 385
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles
Kimi fought his way up to 3rd after starting 22nd in Bahrain
Schumi fought his way up to 5th after his own shenigans placed him at the back on an equally difficult circuit (Monaco)
Trulli found his way to 4th at Indy after starting from the pitlane (when Montoya let the door hit everyone else on his way out)
Personally, I can't see him making it out of the first session. I think 16th or 17th on the grid is the best Alonso can hope for . . .
Sunday should be interesting. We'll get a chance to see what he's really made of . . .
Schumi fought his way up to 5th after his own shenigans placed him at the back on an equally difficult circuit (Monaco)
Trulli found his way to 4th at Indy after starting from the pitlane (when Montoya let the door hit everyone else on his way out)
Personally, I can't see him making it out of the first session. I think 16th or 17th on the grid is the best Alonso can hope for . . .
Sunday should be interesting. We'll get a chance to see what he's really made of . . .
Coordinator :: St. Louis MINI Club
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 570
Likes: 1
From: St. Louis
RenaultF1,
I missed the opportunity to bet since I didn't see the thread again until now. Darn!
I think that Renault and Ferrari have been neck and neck in reliability over the last several years. My point was for Kimi, either one is much better than what McLaren-Merc has given him.
I think an Alonso-Kimi McLaren would be awesome, but it doesn't seem to be in the cards. I guess we'll just have to wait a bit more to find out for sure. As far as Michael and Kimi being equals, the lastest F1 Racing mag article says that this will be specifically spelled out in the contract, as Michael's #1 driver appointment is now. If the team will stick to this, that's another story...
BTW, I am a huge Renault fan and an even bigger Alonso fan. I do love watching Michael do his magic, but have never cared for his dangerous antics over the years (such as ramming Damon Hill to win the title, pushing Mika into the grass at Spa, and the Monaco incident this year).
Fernando made a big mistake today. I hope that he can recover from it and at least grab some points. Also, maybe Kimi or someone else can be a spoiler and keep Michael from the win. Sunday (and quali) will be super interesting to say the least!
I missed the opportunity to bet since I didn't see the thread again until now. Darn!
I think that Renault and Ferrari have been neck and neck in reliability over the last several years. My point was for Kimi, either one is much better than what McLaren-Merc has given him.
I think an Alonso-Kimi McLaren would be awesome, but it doesn't seem to be in the cards. I guess we'll just have to wait a bit more to find out for sure. As far as Michael and Kimi being equals, the lastest F1 Racing mag article says that this will be specifically spelled out in the contract, as Michael's #1 driver appointment is now. If the team will stick to this, that's another story...
BTW, I am a huge Renault fan and an even bigger Alonso fan. I do love watching Michael do his magic, but have never cared for his dangerous antics over the years (such as ramming Damon Hill to win the title, pushing Mika into the grass at Spa, and the Monaco incident this year).
Fernando made a big mistake today. I hope that he can recover from it and at least grab some points. Also, maybe Kimi or someone else can be a spoiler and keep Michael from the win. Sunday (and quali) will be super interesting to say the least!
Originally Posted by RenaultF1
This just in...
Sounds like Webber could be going to Renault..."moving further up the grid" doesn't sound like Red Bull and I can't see it being McLaren ...
Redbird...the bet is off. Can't talk anymore, I need to now take my foot out of my mouth 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Williams says Webber’s ‘heart was elsewhere’
Thursday, 03, August, 2006, 21:02
Frank Williams has revealed that Mark Webber chose not to re-sign with the Grove-based team because he had the prospect of a better offer elsewhere.
Williams caused surprise on Wednesday when it announced that test driver Alex Wurz will partner Nico Rosberg in its 2007 line-up.
The team had been expected to keep its current pairing of Webber and Rosberg.
Its option to keep Webber for ’07 expired on Monday, and Williams explained that it was not taken up because the Australian was holding out for an opportunity with another team and would not commit to his current employers.
“We were surprised along with the rest of the world,” Williams told ITV Sport’s Ted Kravitz in Hungary on Thursday.
“We were confident Mark [Webber] was staying, but he told us that he had been given an opportunity – not a certain one, but certainly one that would in principle I think move him further up the grid at this time – and he felt he had to take it.”
Williams’ comments give further credence to speculation that Webber is chasing the vacant seat alongside Giancarlo Fisichella at Renault, the team run by Flavio Briatore, who, along with GP2 series boss Bruno Michel, is part of Webber’s management team.
Williams would not disclose whether he could have forced Webber to stay put under the terms of his existing contract, but said the 29-year-old’s “heart was elsewhere”.
“I wish to make no comment about contracts that were or weren’t in place – it’s irrelevant,” he said.
“We decided quickly that Mark was gone, it’s what he wanted very much and his heart was elsewhere.”
Webber’s no-nonsense, apolitical approach chimed perfectly with that of Williams and his co-owner Patrick Head, and the partnership, which began in 2005, seemed destined to bring success.
But Williams admitted it had foundered because the team had been unable to give Webber a sufficiently competitive car.
“We had hoped to have given him better than we have done so far and we have certainly not done anything like the job he expected nor we expected,” he said.
“But that’s how it was – he has made his decision and we have made another decision consequently. There is no looking back.”
Williams stressed that Webber and the team remain on good terms.
“There is no doubt about that and we intend to part on even better terms, we hope with lots more points for both of us by the end of the season,” he said.
“We are certain that we shall give him and the team every opportunity to improve throughout the remaining six races of the year.”
Sounds like Webber could be going to Renault..."moving further up the grid" doesn't sound like Red Bull and I can't see it being McLaren ...
Redbird...the bet is off.
Can't talk anymore, I need to now take my foot out of my mouth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Williams says Webber’s ‘heart was elsewhere’
Thursday, 03, August, 2006, 21:02
Frank Williams has revealed that Mark Webber chose not to re-sign with the Grove-based team because he had the prospect of a better offer elsewhere.
Williams caused surprise on Wednesday when it announced that test driver Alex Wurz will partner Nico Rosberg in its 2007 line-up.
The team had been expected to keep its current pairing of Webber and Rosberg.
Its option to keep Webber for ’07 expired on Monday, and Williams explained that it was not taken up because the Australian was holding out for an opportunity with another team and would not commit to his current employers.
“We were surprised along with the rest of the world,” Williams told ITV Sport’s Ted Kravitz in Hungary on Thursday.
“We were confident Mark [Webber] was staying, but he told us that he had been given an opportunity – not a certain one, but certainly one that would in principle I think move him further up the grid at this time – and he felt he had to take it.”
Williams’ comments give further credence to speculation that Webber is chasing the vacant seat alongside Giancarlo Fisichella at Renault, the team run by Flavio Briatore, who, along with GP2 series boss Bruno Michel, is part of Webber’s management team.
Williams would not disclose whether he could have forced Webber to stay put under the terms of his existing contract, but said the 29-year-old’s “heart was elsewhere”.
“I wish to make no comment about contracts that were or weren’t in place – it’s irrelevant,” he said.
“We decided quickly that Mark was gone, it’s what he wanted very much and his heart was elsewhere.”
Webber’s no-nonsense, apolitical approach chimed perfectly with that of Williams and his co-owner Patrick Head, and the partnership, which began in 2005, seemed destined to bring success.
But Williams admitted it had foundered because the team had been unable to give Webber a sufficiently competitive car.
“We had hoped to have given him better than we have done so far and we have certainly not done anything like the job he expected nor we expected,” he said.
“But that’s how it was – he has made his decision and we have made another decision consequently. There is no looking back.”
Williams stressed that Webber and the team remain on good terms.
“There is no doubt about that and we intend to part on even better terms, we hope with lots more points for both of us by the end of the season,” he said.
“We are certain that we shall give him and the team every opportunity to improve throughout the remaining six races of the year.”
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,589
Likes: 2
From: Oregon, USA
This is one great thread ! I have been lurking and reading for quite awhile. I couldn't add anything to these great discussions, so I kept my fingers quiet...lol.
One thing I would like to bring up again is your thoughts on how to better the series. What would you do if you were F1 King? Make changes to the aero? How about some mechanical changes?
My first proclamation as King would be to ban carbon-fiber brakes. Get those braking distances back to where they were. Bring back the bonsai dive for the corner, get the cars off line and clean up the junk off of the track. Get the racing lines wider.
Second would be to req. a flat bottom car. Keep the downforce low. Bring the driver back to the race. The current slot-car races are a bit tedious and frankly dangerous. With only one line available because of the junk on the track it is making it almost impossible to get off line to make any kind attempt at a pass.
So, what do you think?
One thing I would like to bring up again is your thoughts on how to better the series. What would you do if you were F1 King? Make changes to the aero? How about some mechanical changes?
My first proclamation as King would be to ban carbon-fiber brakes. Get those braking distances back to where they were. Bring back the bonsai dive for the corner, get the cars off line and clean up the junk off of the track. Get the racing lines wider.
Second would be to req. a flat bottom car. Keep the downforce low. Bring the driver back to the race. The current slot-car races are a bit tedious and frankly dangerous. With only one line available because of the junk on the track it is making it almost impossible to get off line to make any kind attempt at a pass.
So, what do you think?
So, Alonso was penalized for passing someone under yellow during practice, eh? Did anyone notice M Schu passing Kimi at the start of the formation lap last week? I don't recall any penalty for his infraction.....
Well, they'll have one tire next year and I hear it's going to be of lower performance. I'd drastically cut back the aero, kill traction control too. Make them have to watch it powering out that way too. Let em keep ABS for safety sake. I like the qualifying format now.
I'd dump the two race engine rule. That's whats keeping practice paticipation light. Don't penalize them for running the cars! No third driver but any engine changes you want. Then they'll be able to and will run their actual cars and drivers in practice. Maybe just make em race with the qualifying engine else go to the back so we don't end up with qualifying spec engines.
Renault's handling of the Michelin issue isn't good. Even Matchet (sp?) Hobbs, and Varsha were talking about how Ferrari never bad mouthed Bridgestone all last year. Last week Renault were careful to stack their blistered tires out in view. Tacky!
Looks like Alonso is cracking a bit under the pressure. Hope it stays close and a challenging championship race. I'll admit to being a Schumi fan though. I've got to believe that with the way Massa's driving, even if things swing back that Ferrari will probably get the constructors.
What about Ross Braun's sabbatical? Wonder how that will mess with the team next year, and if it'll effect Michaels decision.
I'd like to see Rubens do well soon. He seems like a pretty nice guy. He worked hard as #2 to Michael for a long time.
I'd dump the two race engine rule. That's whats keeping practice paticipation light. Don't penalize them for running the cars! No third driver but any engine changes you want. Then they'll be able to and will run their actual cars and drivers in practice. Maybe just make em race with the qualifying engine else go to the back so we don't end up with qualifying spec engines.
Renault's handling of the Michelin issue isn't good. Even Matchet (sp?) Hobbs, and Varsha were talking about how Ferrari never bad mouthed Bridgestone all last year. Last week Renault were careful to stack their blistered tires out in view. Tacky!
Looks like Alonso is cracking a bit under the pressure. Hope it stays close and a challenging championship race. I'll admit to being a Schumi fan though. I've got to believe that with the way Massa's driving, even if things swing back that Ferrari will probably get the constructors.
What about Ross Braun's sabbatical? Wonder how that will mess with the team next year, and if it'll effect Michaels decision.
I'd like to see Rubens do well soon. He seems like a pretty nice guy. He worked hard as #2 to Michael for a long time.
4th Gear
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 385
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles
Originally Posted by kurvhugr
So, Alonso was penalized for passing someone under yellow during practice, eh? Did anyone notice M Schu passing Kimi at the start of the formation lap last week? I don't recall any penalty for his infraction.....
Weaving, blocking, brake testing . . . driving a race car outside the specific purpose of competing for pace and finding the limit can not be tolerated.
If Alonso has set himself up as the poster child for tough penalties . . . so be it . . . he brought it all on himself. This is not the first instance of this sort of behavior on his behalf. Hopefully, he'll wise up from this little slap on the wrist. I bet that he will.
3rd Gear
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 300
Likes: 0
From: Omaha, NE
Originally Posted by kurvhugr
So, Alonso was penalized for passing someone under yellow during practice, eh? Did anyone notice M Schu passing Kimi at the start of the formation lap last week? I don't recall any penalty for his infraction.....
"Overtaking during the formation lap is only permitted if a car is delayed when leaving its grid position and cars behind cannot avoid passing it without unduly delaying the remainder of the field. In this case, drivers may only overtake to re-establish the original starting order."
And that's it...it doesn't go on into any further detail. What exactly constitutes a "delay" when leaving the grid position or what explains the circumstances that allow for passing so as not to "unduly delay the remainder of the field". It seems to me that the stewards simply judge if the pass was intentional and/or without explanation. Apparently in this case, they just weren't convinced that Michael passing Kimi on the formation lap and then, of course, giving his position back to him was a reason to penalize. Not that my decision matters, but I didn't see an issue either.
However, break-checking the guy behind you because he pissed you off is "unnecassary, unacceptable, and dangerous." Not to mention the fact that it seems like something an immature jackass would do.
I've got mad respect for Alonso, but he made a bad decision there and has to pay the price...just like Michael "did" in Monte Carlo.
Originally Posted by J-Stylez
Actually, I'm sure millions of other people did.
You're right, of course. In fact, now that I remember the commentators making a bit of a fuss about it I guess it would have been very hard to miss.
Originally Posted by J-Stylez
But should there have been a penalty??? If you look at the sporting regulations, the ruling on passing during the formation lap and the reprucussions of such are a little....ambiguous. It states the following, and this is a quote:
"Overtaking during the formation lap is only permitted if a car is delayed when leaving its grid position and cars behind cannot avoid passing it without unduly delaying the remainder of the field. In this case, drivers may only overtake to re-establish the original starting order."
"Overtaking during the formation lap is only permitted if a car is delayed when leaving its grid position and cars behind cannot avoid passing it without unduly delaying the remainder of the field. In this case, drivers may only overtake to re-establish the original starting order."
Originally Posted by J-Stylez
However, break-checking the guy behind you because he pissed you off is "unnecassary, unacceptable, and dangerous." Not to mention the fact that it seems like something an immature jackass would do.
Originally Posted by J-Styles
I've got mad respect for Alonso, but he made a bad decision there and has to pay the price...just like Michael "did" in Monte Carlo.
M Schu passed two under red flag during practice this morning and was penalized 2 seconds per quali session.....should put to rest a few of the FIA-handing-the-championship-to-Schumi/Ferrari conspiracy theories.
5th Gear
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 698
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh, NC
Wow - who saw this coming? But I was under the impression that Alonso was penalized 2 seconds for two separate infractions: dangerous driving and passing under the yellow during practice. So why was Michael penalized 2 second for one infraction, namely, passing under the red flag during practice. At least it keeps the Championship chase exciting. Want to bet it'll still be a Kimi, Michael and Alonso show at the end of tomorrow's race?
4th Gear
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 385
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles
Originally Posted by ncdave
Wow - who saw this coming? But I was under the impression that Alonso was penalized 2 seconds for two separate infractions: dangerous driving and passing under the yellow during practice. So why was Michael penalized 2 second for one infraction, namely, passing under the red flag during practice.
I have to say I'm a little perturbed by this. I think Kimi best summed it up in the post quali interview . . . either one respects the rules or they pay the price. What was Schumacher thinking? He must've been asleep . . . simply not paying attention.
With that said, I don't consider his infraction deserved of the same (actually stiffer) penalty than Alonso's shoddy behavior on Friday. Alonso is now getting off scott free . . . which means we will probably have to endure more of his fist waving and threatening antics in the future.
Originally Posted by ncdave
Wow - who saw this coming? But I was under the impression that Alonso was penalized 2 seconds for two separate infractions: dangerous driving and passing under the yellow during practice. So why was Michael penalized 2 second for one infraction, namely, passing under the red flag during practice.
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 0
From: Sacramento, CA
Originally Posted by kurvhugr
M Schu passed two under red flag during practice this morning and was penalized 2 seconds per quali session.....should put to rest a few of the FIA-handing-the-championship-to-Schumi/Ferrari conspiracy theories.
Massa was quick and how about Kubica? Boy he was on a charge in qualifying today. That young kid will go far. He may be running a little light in his loafers, but still... good drive for qualifying. let's see him in the race.
