I agree with the posts placing most of the blame on Michelin.


However, I believe this never would have been a problem worth discussion if FIA had not adopted the ridiculous 1-set-of-tires-per-race rule. This rule almost killed Raikkonenen a couple of races ago, and now has really shown the kind of short-sighted thinking going on in FIA these days. If teams had been allowed to prepare with muiltiple tire sets (as they have done in the past), there might have been strategies in place involving the number of stops, that could have allowed the Michellin teams to perform competetively. The driver's would have been responsible for exercising caution in the the banked corner, which might have been frustrating, but they are professionals, and do have to deal with such things as part of thir job description. There also would have been other competetive tires available to slect from during the race. Finally, Michellin would not have had the burden of trying to maximize the tires durability, and could have focused their development efforts on the high-speed banking issues.

So, Michellin gets the lion's share of the blame for waiting to long to deal with the problem, for the unprecedented letter to the teams stating they would not certify the tires for the track, and for not having appropriate back-up tires available for the teams.

FIA gets a good chunk of the blame for being short-sighted in their bizarre rule-changing that probably caused the problem in the first place. At least they did offer alternatives, such as allowing a modified race to be run without sanction, i.e., points being awarded. The fans deserved this at the least. Installing a temporary chicane would have been a bad idea without practice laps, but FIA's other bizarre rules forced a situation where Toyata qualified on empty tanks in order to get pole in front of their important American audience, and didn't have enough fuel on board Trulli's car to get through practice laps without a pit stop!

Ferrari gets a little morsel of blame foir being so flat-out greedy that they couldn't concede one tiny advantage (their ability to take the banked turn flat-out) for the sake of the racing spectacle (I.e., allowing the chicane, so everyone could race). They didn't do anything wrong - they were certainly within their rights not giving up a bona fide racing advantage, but it would have done much to spread good will and to perhaps partially make up for the slap in the face they presented to US fans previously at Indy with the "After you' my dear team-mate" 1-2 finish.

The rest of the teams also get a tiny morsel for staging the "political demonstration", and for not racing with less-competetive but safe tires, so that the fans could at least have a show. No biggie, but it might have helped. I definitely feel bad for all the drivers, including those who raced and got points. Hollow victories, I'm sure.

Of course, now uncompetetive Shuey is 3rd in the driver's championship, and Ferrari is right up there in the manufacturer's race.

It has been an extremely interesting, and extremely frustrating year for fans like myself, who have enjoyed the fact that there are so many good, competetive drivers and cars this year, but have seen so many of them robbed of deserving victories.

_Dave_

 

The commentators were talking about telemetry and said that adding a chicane would have thrown this off competely...I'm not sure how much of this is true, after all, as far as I can remember, all settings on the car must be done in the pits, and cannot be sent to the car wirelessly...the drivers can't even have a digital brake bias button (it must be manual) so the telemetry thing didn't make sense to me.

 

Followed F1 for 35 years.
FIA does not have an e-mail address that I can find – so I will bleed here.
The 2005 US Grand Prix SUCKED!
Paying fans got ripped off! – How does FIA compensate those that took vacations to see the USA Grand Prix?
Viewing fans got ripped off!
USA got ripped off!
Michelin – got it all wrong – BUT, driver and constructor points aside, there still should have been a show for the paying public.
FIA Sucks and I hope FIA looses control of the F1 circus.
I will now support whatever group that replaces FIA, and I hope the revolution happens soon.

 

I'm still shaking my head over all of this. I'm amazed at just how out of touch F1 is with the general public. I'm sure I'll get slammed for this, but personally, I place the blame on Michelin and the Michelin teams/team managers. No one else.

Bridgestone, aren't to blame...nor are Ferrari or any of the Bridgestone runners. They should not have been penalized for Michelin's inability to provide their teams with a working tire solution. No reason they should have to run at slower speeds...they got it right. (I will say, that I would have thought it humourous though if the 2 Ferraris had taken each other out.)

The FIA isn't to blame. They made a set of rules and the rules should be kept. It isn't their fault that one of the 2 tire manufacturers got it wrong. They are the governing body/the rules enforcers, not the ones that put the show on for the public. The idea of the chicane was a joke...and dangerous.

The public got screwed because of Michelin (it's recommendation not to run if the speed of all cars was not reduced in turn 13) and the Michelin teams (refusing to run at a slower speed thru turn 13 - unless Bridgestone runners also reduced their speed - or run thru the pitlane).

For all those that are saying, bring on the GPWC...Most of the great minds that made the decisions behind the fiasco (can't call it a race) yesterday are the ones that will be in charge and part of the GPWC. I'm surprised that there wasn't a sound business decision in any of this. They claim over & over that the US is an important segment to F1 and that they must grow the sport in the US...and they make a short sighted move like this.

The best & worst part of yesterday's broadcast was listening to all the team big-wigs blame everyone but themselves. My 2 favourites...Adrian Newey saying the reason for the cars going out on the formation lap was to give the fans somewhat of a show and show them the cars. And Pat Symonds of Renault saying that going slowly thru turn 13 when 6 cars would be running at full speed would be too dangerous. I'm stunned that they could actually say those comments with a straight face.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if all the Michelin runners lost all their points (although I don't know which rule would allow that). Oh, and I'm a Renault fan. I'm a Michelin fan. I just don't understand how so many people could get it so wrong. I guess I picked a good year not to go to the USGP...this is the first time I didn't go (work conflict) since it has been at Indianapolis.

I'm sure this won't be a popular opinion, but it is my .02.

 

I would not even blame Michelin.

I BLAME THE MICHELIN-SHOD TEAMS

Michelin's responsibility was to notify their teams that there was a problem going into turn 13 too hot. It was the Michelin teams responsibility to SLOW DOWN in turn 13. Those teams didn't want to have to adjust their driving for a particularly hazardous condition.

WHAT IF...in the middle of the race, it started to rain and let's say that Bridgestone had an inferior tire in the rain. Would it be right for the Bridgestone teams to leave the track and say that it was unsave for them to run all out on their Bridgestones.

The Michelin's were the inferior product FOR THIS PARTICULAR RACE. The Michelin-shod teams were responsible to put on a race and slow down in turn 13.

The Michelin-shod teams are to blame and should be severely penalized for refusing to race.

 

Well I dunno about that.... Rubens saw him coming and tried to get past him, well thats what Rubens implied afterwards.

They are very lucky that they didnt take each other out of the race. It's really a shame that they arent on speaking terms though, they used to be good buddies.

 

hey, something just occured to me..... Why didnt the Michelin teams just put on Bridgestones for the race?? Any FIA rule saying you cant??

 

exactly. everything else is a result of this rule. this isn't an endurance race.

also, regarding my post earlier about shumi and rubens, i believe the opinions in replies that i have received are valid. everyone around me at the race thought shumi was to blame but that was in the heat of the whole freakin' mess, too so, who knows.

i'm new to f1 and have really enjoyed it this year and this was my first race in person. although i am disappointed that i didn't get to see the race i expected, i still saw a race (one that will go down in history) and i won't let this get in the way of me continuing to learn about it and enjoy it.

stuff happens and nobody died - so all is good.

 

This is not true. If the chicane was put there, NO ONE, not even Bridgestone runners would be awarded points. Thats why Ferrari said no way, who the hell would want to race anyway if it didnt count, thats just stupid.

And dont think that the teams would have gone out there just for the fans, chicane or not. Teams dont give a rats *** about fans, well not enough to do anything about it anyway.

 

The arguement against Michelin is that they DO have a harder slower tire that could have been brought, but they opted to bring the faster more competitive tires.

Unfortuneately this is that grey-muddy area where a finger can be pointed at the FIA (by the tire manufaturer) to say that due to the tire regulations, they could not bring all tire options to the race. It's a weak arguement, but if blame can be shifted in F1, it will be.

No matter how you slice it, this was a sad day for the sport, a slap in the face to the fans, and may be a prelude of things to come are we near the end of the concorde agreement.

Just keep in mind, these teams that took the boycot route, are the tems looking to break away from F1 and the FIA. What kind of league will the GPWC be if it's run by teams w/ no regard for the rules set down by the sport. expecially if those teams are the ones making the rules... will they decide NOT to run in the rain if 1 team feels it's unsafe?

I'd like to see Max and Bernie out of the picture as much as the next fan, but in this case, I have to side wiht them a little and frown on the teams.

 

I don't care if I got paid to race a F1 car as long as my medical insurance was covered... but thats just me.. I would have raced just for the fans and slowed way down for the 13th turn.. I'm staying out of politics now.

 

This just in on FIA.com

FIA WORLD MOTOR SPORT COUNCIL
20.06.2005
*
Further to events at the 2005 United States Grand Prix, representatives of the seven Michelin teams have been summoned to a hearing of the FIA World Motor Sport Council to be held in Paris on Wednesday, June 29, 2005.

I seriously hope that some sort of penalty is handed down!

 

I'm a biased MSchu fan, but I think it was due in part to (a) a bad pit exit that brings cars out in the middle of the braking zone for Turn 1, (b) Rubens out-braking himself (partially due to [a], I think), and (c) Michael making a poor decision.

I'm not expert on F1 rules, but I think the only punishable pit-exit offense is to cross over the white line and enter the track too soon.

 

If Michelin is arrogant and stupid enough to ignore testing in the biggest automobile market (at least until China catches up), and persuade the teams to boycott the only F1 race in US, I'm willing to boycott Michelin products just to protest.

Also, if F1 is suppose to be a showcase of highest form of automobile techonology, what does this say about Michelin products and the fact that they can't compete against Bridgestone? What a terrible PR mistake.

Come on now, by a show of posts here, how many are on the boycotting Michelin bandwagon with me??

 

Per the official memo on www.formula1.com this morning:

"A chicane would have forced all cars, including those with tyres optimised for high-speed, to run on a circuit whose characteristics had changed fundamentally – from ultra-high speed (because of turn 13) to very slow and twisting. It would also have involved changing the circuit without following any of the modern safety procedures, possibly with implications for the cars and their brakes. It is not difficult to imagine the reaction of an American court had there been an accident (whatever its cause) with the FIA having to admit it had failed to follow its own rules and safety procedures."

Seems perfectly reasonable to me. Regardless of which team(s) would benefit from modifying the track, it just isn't possible to change the circuit in the middle of a race weekend.

 

anyone? no one?

 

It's pointless to blame Michelin: this is bleeding edge race engineering and stuff happens. The problem only came to light in Friday practice with the two tire failures in turn 13. Michelin flew over revised spec tires from France and had them on hand for the race, but the FIA wouldn't let them be used due to the current tire use rules.

It's also pointless to blame the Michelin-shod teams: they can hardly be expected to send their drivers out to play F1 Russian Roulette. Peter Windsor suggested on Dave Despain's show last night that they should have run anyway and backed off in turn 13. That's even more stupid: playing Russian Roulette without knowing how many bullets are in the gun.

Which brings us to the FIA, the sanctioning body that seems to have entirely lost sight of what F1, like any sporting event, exists to do: entertain the paying customers. The FIA has shown that it would rather win a rules battle even when that means losing the whole war.

One reasonable solution would have been:
- Allow the Michelin teams to use the new replacement tires
- Allow the Bridgestone teams to use their choice of brand new (more life) or scrubbed-in (more grip) tires at their option
- Demote the Michelin runners to the back of the grid, just as happens now if an engine change or tire change is needed.
- Run the full track with no afterthought chicane.

This would have emphasized safety, been fair to the B'stone teams while allowing the Michelin teams to run, and most importantly would have treated the paying public with respect.

Instead the FIA insisted on being right in its narrow enforcement of the rules, even when that meant being dead right. I'm not much of a NASCAR fan, but as an organizing body they know what side their bread is buttered on. NASCAR would never, not in a million years, have allowed something like this to happen.

Neil
05 MCS

 

I 100% agree with Neil. Compromises were there that would have given everyone a good race to watch, but the FIA refused to allow it. People make mistakes. Michelin screwed up, admitted it, and then tried to find a solution so their cars could race safely. I feel that Michelin did what they could to fix the situation, but the FIA prevented any compromise.
I place most of the blame on Max Mosley, for the 1 tire rule and the safety problems it has caused all season. I suppose a driver will have to be seriously hurt or killed before the 1 tire rule is abolished.

Aaron

 

From F1 website: I agree with them COMPLETELY.

The summons follows a statement issued by Formula One racing’s governing body earlier on Monday, in which it outlines its position on Michelin's decision to pull out of the race. The statement reads:

"Formula One is a sporting contest. It must operate to clear rules. These cannot be negotiated each time a competitor brings the wrong equipment to a race.

"At Indianapolis we were told by Michelin that their tyres would be unsafe unless their cars were slowed in the main corner. We understood and among other suggestions offered to help them by monitoring speeds and penalising any excess. However, the Michelin teams refused to agree unless the Bridgestone runners were slowed by the same amount. They suggested a chicane.

"The Michelin teams seemed unable to understand that this would have been grossly unfair as well as contrary to the rules. The Bridgestone teams had suitable tyres. They did not need to slow down. The Michelin teams’ lack of speed through turn 13 would have been a direct result of inferior equipment, as often happens in Formula One. It must also be remembered that the FIA wrote to all of the teams and both tyre manufacturers on June 1, 2005, to emphasise that "tyres should be built to be reliable under all circumstances".

"A chicane would have forced all cars, including those with tyres optimised for high-speed, to run on a circuit whose characteristics had changed fundamentally – from ultra-high speed (because of turn 13) to very slow and twisting. It would also have involved changing the circuit without following any of the modern safety procedures, possibly with implications for the cars and their brakes. It is not difficult to imagine the reaction of an American court had there been an accident (whatever its cause) with the FIA having to admit it had failed to follow its own rules and safety procedures.

"The reason for this debacle is clear. Each team is allowed to bring two types of tyre: one an on-the-limit potential race winner, the other a back-up which, although slower, is absolutely reliable. Apparently, none of the Michelin teams brought a back-up to Indianapolis. They subsequently announced they were flying in new tyres from France but then claimed that these too were unsafe.

"What about the American fans? What about Formula One fans world-wide? Rather than boycott the race the Michelin teams should have agreed to run at reduced speed in turn 13. The rules would have been kept, they would have earned Championship points and the fans would have had a race. As it is, by refusing to run unless the FIA broke the rules and handicapped the Bridgestone runners, they have damaged themselves and the sport.

"It should also be made clear that Formula One Management and Indianapolis Motor Speedway, as commercial entities, can have no role in the enforcement of the rules."

 

I am boycotting for life!!!

 

I don't think so...... As I understand it, Michelin realized the Barcelona spec tires they brought over had the same characteristics as those that were failing so they decided to give them the same recommendation. So, I don't think the FIA had an official opportunity to disallow them.

 

Regardless of what some may say, F1 is NOT a circus. They are NOT here to entertain. They are here to race to F1 rules.

 

See my comments in BLUE please.

 

You go Camel!!
Bottomline is that I'm really disappointed with Michelin.

 

One of the options the FIA gave them was to continually change tires during the race (they would have needed to show a safety issue...but that wouldn't have been too hard).

Also, totally disagree about lowering the speed in turn 13. Peter Windsor is/was right IMHO. Michelin gave the speed lowering as an option to the teams/FIA. The problem was that the FIA didn't agree with the Bridgestone runners needing to lower their speeds as they didn't do anything wrong or have a problem with their tires.