I'm new to the concept of actually racing a car, but now that I'm looking at getting a MINI (MC/MCS) I think it might be fun to head on out to a track now and then. I'm not the competitive type, just looking to have extra fun with a future car.

My main question:
Does tracking cause excessive wear and tear or decrease longterm functionality of MINIs, or are these cars designed to withstand that kind of use (being performance cars)?

The reason I'm asking is that I see some people have a MINI as their daily driver and some don't. My car would be my daily driver and I don't want to run it into the ground in a few years.

Related questions:

Does the above question relate differently to the MC or the MCS? In other words, is using a track more stressful on one or the other, or is there no real difference? Not trying to open a can of worms...

Is DTC or an LSD important for having fun on a track? A lot of posts I see recommend at least one, but I see very few cars in stock with either option, and I'll only special order if it's either kind of important on a track or really important in daily driving.

Is it a bad idea to use the same tire and wheel on the track as you use on the street, or does it really not matter (again, we're talking fun here) if additional tire wear is caught and tires are replaced as needed?

Looking forward to your responses,
Dan

 

Driving a car on the track will add wear and tear to the car. Mostly to parts that are considered "consumable" - tires and brakes. But, it will cause wear to other parts too.

Running on the same tires you drive to the track on is fine. You will cause substantial wear to them, so you have to keep track of how much tread you have left.

I have a Cooper as a track car. It used to be my daily driver, and for years I used it for both daily driving and track use without any problems. I don't think either is better or worse as a track car.

In a Cooper, you do not need an LSD. Having not driven my Cooper S on the track, I can't say much about the importance of an LSP on a Cooper S. My guess is it would help if you are not good at modulating the throttle to limit wheelspin. But I'd imagine you can get around most tracks just fine without it.

 

I've never driven mine on a track, so I'm no expert , but it seems like the people who have and are equipped with DSC, turn it off for track days because they don't like the ECU telling them what their limits are as far as their speed in turns.

However, with that said, I would definitely recommend buying a MINI equipped with DSC for daily use. It can be a life saver in really wet, icy or snowy conditions.

I can't speak for LSD though. I know nothing of it, so I'll leave that for another expert.

 

LSD does come in handy but is by no means "necessary". If you've never done any track days before, have no real familiarity with racing, and are strapped for cash/want the car now then you can forgo the LSD and just learn on what you have.

DSC is not usually desired for track use at all, it just gets in the way. It can be turned off, thankfully, and it is good insurance for the daily driver.

Go to a track day our autox event and see what you think. If it appeals look into getting some dedicated wheels/tires just for track days. You'll need 'em.

 

I agree with SNID's comments on the wear to the car. I track my Mini S and use it for daily use. I have the LSD and there is a benefit to the LSD both on and off the track.

Purchase the car you want and you can have fun at the track with the Mini no matter how you order it. It is a very capable car that is easy to drive at the track. Much easier to learn on than a high HP car.

You noted "the concept of actually racing" and you are not competitive. This means you will be fine, because as will be made very clear to you, the track days are not racing, they are high performance driving schools. You will be allowed to learn at your own pace going a speed you are comfortable with. Taking the car 100% stock is the best things for the first few takes. But if the bug bites hard, you will be getting better tires, brakes, suspension etc

 

At most track days, they'll be quite adamant that what you're doing is not racing. Racing is dangerous and voids your warranty and insurance. Track days may count as education and are lots of fun (and your insurance may or may not cover you).

As noted, a track day will cause accelerated wear to wear items. After a track day the computer will count down a lot of miles off the condition based service countdown, how much depends on how aggressive you are. If my wife is driving, the computer hardly blinks. I've driven a thousand or so miles off the countdown to the next oil service, I've driven a thousand or so miles off the brake countdown taking it easy, I've driven 7000 miles off the front brakes after a particularly aggressive track day (and I decided that was a bit much and I'll be more gentle next time).

I don't know how much other wear it causes to the car, but I'm not worried about it. We've track both of our MINIs, they're our daily drivers and I've not noticed any particular wear apart from the brakes and the tires.

The MCS is somewhat more stressed by the track than the MC, we use both. The biggest difference is on the brakes, an MCS will enter the corners faster so the brakes need to take out more energy. Basically all that extra power from the engine just has to be taken right out of the car again by the brakes. Apart from that the MC and the MCS perform much the same, though after a track day in the MC I think it'd interesting to try that again the MCS.

The biggest problem with the MC at the track is persuading "faster" cars to let you pass. Usually passing is only in designated straight sections of the track and you'll held up by some high horsepower car through the curves, then it'll pull away from you on the straight when it should be letting you by, only to catch up again with it at the next corner.

LSD isn't particularly important for having fun. In theory it'll help you go faster, but you can have lots of fun even in an MC which doesn't have that option. I've never worked out what DTC does, but it probably can't hurt, but again you can have lots of fun without it. I would imagine that sport suspension would give you the biggest impact, but I couldn't really say as I've never done a track day without it, both of ours have the sport suspension.

Its not a bad idea to use the same tire on the street and the track, but a tire which is good for both is a bit of a compromise. The first major mod I've made is dedicated tires/wheels for the track. The track tires could be run on the street quite happily, but I decided I wanted something a little for comfortable for everyday use, and something more aggressive for the track. The R56 MINI seems to be quite gentle on its tires, I was quite surprised to go through a whole track day in the MC with no noticeable tire wear.

 

Where and how to you find out about track days? I did it twice when Mazda did their Zoom Zoom events, but i would love to try it w/ my MCS

 

Join BMWCCA. The club spnsors driving schools at most major tracks around the country. They are highly organized, emphasis on safety and learning the limits of both the car and driver. The instructors are top notch in my opinion. These schools are also a great bargain compared to other venues.

 

Here is what i found at my local track.

http://www.racewaypark.com/main/roadcourse/index.htm

 

Track days are only going to be as hard on your car as you want it to be. You are under no pressure to "push" the envelope. Just go out and have fun.

If you are smooth and easy on the car, the wear is not really going to be a problem.

 

How much should you expect to pay for a track day? RaceWay park is $225 but you get 2 class room sessions and about 5 hours of track time.

 

That's about the going rate...

I'd also recommend joining BMWCCA--many times you'll get an instructor who runs a MINI (Rides with instructors who haven't tracked a front wheel drive car can be, well, interesting sometimes...).

 

At Heartland Park, Topeka they have a Wed afternoon series called Touring Laps, it's run exactly like a DE, and we usually get 4 or 5 20 min sessions on track per event, and believe me that's plenty! But, the cost is only $60!

I'd see if your local track has anything comparable, best amount of track time for the money out there.

BTW, is MAR near Wentzville still open? That would be an excellent MINI track!

There are two things I'd recommend you do, one is buy a set of dedicated tires and wheels for your track days - mine have lasted 9 sessions so far.
And I'd recommend a larger, adjustable rear sway bar to help with tire spin coming out of slow corners. I stiffen mine up when I change to my track tires, and set it to the softest setting when I go back to my DD tires, a 22mm bar from H-Sport is what I have and it really tames the wheel spin.

The stock suspension and brakes on a new MINI are plenty good enough, you don't need to change them unless you really want to get agressive.

Lastly, buy an S if you can afford it, they get great gas mileage in daily use and the extra power is addictive!

 

The first time it was an event "the Big MINI day" promoted by the dealer.

Latterly we've been going with Hooked on Driving, their style suits us just fine.

There's notes about this down in the Driver's School forum, in there I found the latest adventure where one of the locals was running his "Advanced Car Control Clinic", which was about driving fast. That's different from a normal track day which are about as driving as fast as you want to. That introduced me to TrackMasters who hosted the trackday, I'd feel comfortable running with them again.

I've gone to the web site for the local tracks (around here thats Laguna, Infineon, Thunderhill or Buttonwillow), looked in their calendar and then looked up who's running what events. Some of the organisations don't sound like what I'm looking for, some do. I'm thinking I might want to try out the BMW club at Buttonwillow later this year.

 

When I lived in NJ I did most of my track events with PDA.

http://www.pdadrivingschool.com/

Alan

 

Wow! Thanks for everyone's input! Especially in helping me understand some things (racing vs. tracking) and helping my decision.

I feel pretty comfortable knowing the car can go to a track and still be a daily driver. If the biggest wear items are replaceable like brake pads and tires, it's no big deal.

As for the other stuff, we'll see. I'll get the LSD if I can find it on a car with a sunroof (I know about the extra weight on the roof), but I'm not really interested in waiting longer if it isn't that big of a deal. My guess is it matters most in cars with more body roll or in MINIs pushed hard around corners, like on a track. Otherwise it sounds kind of expendable.

I'll sort out the separate tire/wheel thing later and will probably go that route if going to a track becomes a hobby.

@MINIdave:
I'm not sure where MAR is, but I'll let you know if I come across any info.

As for the MC vs. MCS, I've read and re-read threads on it, and I've gone back and forth so much that it's going to come down to at least one more test drive of each. Funny enough, that's what some posts specifically said. My main interest in a new car was handling and fuel efficiency. This nifty performance deal is complicating things, in a good way. If the MC feels underpowered, I'll go MCS. If the MCS feels overpowered, I'll go MC. If I can have fun driving the MCS in daily conditions without feeling like a bull tip-toeing in a china shop, that'll probably be the pick and it would be my first car with any serious giddy-up.

 

I'd definitely go with a stock MINI until you get a feel for it. I'd give careful consideration to the tires though, even if you don't get separate wheels. Before I went to the track, I'd already swapped the runflats out for something much better. The tires I'd got worked fine on the track, (with the exception of a specific wear issue). I wouldn't like to have attempted a track day with the all season runflats I'd accidentally got with the MINI, they were just horrible. If it has performance tires on, it'd probably do just fine. (There are lots of threads about tire choice around here.)

The main problem you might find is it becomes addictive, then you want to do it more, and it costs, and you can think of tweeks you can make to make the car better, and it costs. My plan was I'd do 2-3 track days a year, and I've done 5 since October, and another 1 coming up in July (and maybe September).


Edit: By the way, I manage to get ever so slightly better fuel economy out of the MCS (when not on the track) than the MC. So I find the fuel economy issue a wash, I'm not the most efficient driver though. The R56 MCS doesn't feel particularly over powered to me (the R53 did), or the MC under powered.

 

Stock as in MC instead of MCS, or stock as in not worrying about extra add-ons?

The addictive part is something I've seen a couple people mention, so I'm trying to prepare for it. That's part of why I was curious about simply getting DTC or an LSD right off the bat.

And yeah, changing tires sound like one of the first things I'll do. It'd be nice if the runflats are easy to sell, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

Do people keep the separate tires on wheels, or can they just take them on and off while leaving the wheels on the car? Does it matter in any way other than convenience?

I'm not sure if changing wheels for daily use is in the cards. It'll happen depending on whether or not I get black wheels at the dealer. That's the only appearance thing that'd matter to me. The rest of the appearance seems pretty planned out (mellow yellow, black roof). It's a shame (to me, at least) that purple was discontinued.

 

You're not helping matters!
That's pretty much my memory of the test drives so far, too. Neither stood out as being a problem.

Thanks for letting me know about economy, too. I see some people posting 40+mpg and it looks nice. I just don't want to have to hypermile to get it (not sure if that's the case). And that can be fun in its own way, but that's not the only type of fun I'm looking for here.

Gotta go for now, but I'll check the thread later tonight.

 

Stock as in MC/MCS as it comes from the factory (with the exception of tires maybe).If you don't have those its difficult to impossible to retrofit them later. I wasn't sure I'd notice if I had LSD or not, but I got it anyway, if nothing else it'd make the MINI easier to sell. I'm still not sure I'd notice the difference. I was prepared to wait to order the MINI though, we custom ordered all 4 MINIs so far.You can advertise them in the market place here. I sold some for not that much but I was more worried about clearing out the garage than making money.On separate wheels is the practical way. To change the tire on the rim needs a big machine at the tire shop. Changing wheels needs a jack, a socket and a torque wrench.Tell me about it, its still my favorite colour. The first MCS (Quentin) was Purple.

 

A visit to the dealer should settle the LSD/DTC thing for me. I just might have to order this bundle of fun.

You're right, now that I think of it. Separate wheels makes much more sense. Just one time of trying it the other way would've left me more than a little frustrated.

One of the best things about the MINI is its ability to pull off uncommon colors well. To me It's part of the quirky charm. I never prefer yellow or orange, but they'd be among my first picks for this car. Purple would've been on another level for me.

Thanks again for your help!

 

If, after a few events, you decide you want to keep at the track driving hobby, get a second set of wheels with some dedicated track tires. The MINI can hold 4 wheels with tires, and all the stuff you need to go to the track. The four wheels fit perfectly when you stand them up and put the in the back seat. It's one of the great things about the MINI.

Drive to the track on your street wheels. Switch to the track wheels at the track, and switch back for the drive home.

With an extra set of wheels and tires handy, you're covered should you ge a flat or cord a tire, and you have the street tires should it rain and your track tires don't have enough tread to deal with the water.

 

Get a set of the tire totes too. Then the dirty wheels will not mess up the interior.

Next step is a tow hitch and small trailer to carry wheels, tools, jack, ez-up and other bits. Then you know you are addicted.

Off the deep end is when the plates come off the MINI and the driveway is now sporting a pickup and trailer...

 

I have a question regarding breaks. I am headed to Mid Ohio to do a track weekend and it was suggested for me to find out if I needed to change out the stock break fluid on my 2008 Cooper S to a race fluid so it does not boil out....any thoughts? Id rather not change the fluid out if it is not a necessity.

thanks

 

Yes, definitely change it. ATE superblue/amber is a good relatively cheap fluid that will be more than adequate. This is an area where you really don't want to take any shortcuts...