As some of you know my MINI with 5K on it blew up on I-5 in in OR back in April. It chucked piston #1 going down the highway at 75 MPH with the cruise on. MINI is claiming i raced the car and added software to the car.
I ran a tune for 1 day of HPDE and aweek afterwards and unloaded. Car was running stock program at the time. Jan's tune moves the rev limiter up to 7000 RPM's. MINI claims the car shows overrev 5 times which is possible from my track day. On the front straight of Thunder Hill i would run to about redline in 4th vs shifting to 5th and the down shifting 2 seconds later to set up for the turn 1. I might have hit 6800 or 6900 RPM's 5 different times. Word is warranty is normally voided at 7100 and over. The have refused to tell me the RPM's and it was subpeaned twice. I think we all know why. MINI claims the over rev caused contact with the valves chunking the piston. If it was a top end impact would you find any oil in the cylinder? I say it could not happen with out a bottem end or oil seal failure. The cleaned the plugs and started and it refilled again with oil.

Looking at the info we did get in the subpeana I find a TSB that covers everything that happened to my car. Has to do with a valve that controls the internal pressure of the block. I had a roung and hunting idle the day before I left for the trip. According to the TSB this is because of low pressure. When the engine blew on the highway it drove the dip stick out of the car and pumped out a quart of oil with it. I noted that at the time and it is in the paper work. Same TSB says over pressure will drive the dip stick out of the motor. I never seen this March 2011 TSB anywhere on line. Results of both under pressure and over pressure. Internal engine damage and blown oil seal. I said from day one that to blow the dip stick out of the car you would need high pressure from a blown oil seal and then sucking air and boom. Your thoughs.

Case is next week for the lemon law and now they want to settle. After 6 months they finally want to talk about the car. Really.

They claim it was raced. Went to a MINI sponsered high speed driving event. They claim I ran racing fuel too from a reciept from the car. It was premium because another guy ran his MINI out of fuel and it blew the motor. I want to make sure I kept a 1/4 tank MIN.

 

 

Even if it WAS racing fuel that doesn't automatically make it leaded so really, that's a flimsy case.

What I think you're going to lose on is that you chipped it. Regardless of the amount of time the tune was programmed, you voided the warranty right then and there. I'm NOT saying the tune was the cause, just that you gave MINI an out.

 

Would love to see that TSB that you mention...first I've heard of it.

As far as the valves hitting the piston...it would be possible to get oil in the cylinder if it took out a bit of the ringland with it which is very possible. The racing fuel thing is interesting...rummaging through a customers car looking for receipts is a no-no....

Are you going after MINI USA or the dealer? If it's the dealer I can bet that they will settle no problem at this point...just to get you to go away. I don't mean that in a rude way, but that's just how it works. To be completely honest, they must really not like you, because I have never seen something go this long over something so trivial (a blown motor might not sound trivial, but in the grand scheme of things at a dealership...it is). Working in the car business I see it all day long too.

 

The TSB is in a scanned E-mail from the subpeana sent by my lawyer. There are 128 pages in that one. I searched on-line trying to find that TSB and I could find it nowhere. I was suppose to meet the lawyer today and I was going to see if I could post it on-line and get a copy. They asked for an offer which we provided. Also slammed them on the Racing fuel BS as it is just premium and that the event was a MINI event. I think the BMW lawyer had no clue of that. The Case is a lemon law case
in WA state where I live and purchased the car. The car is in Portland OR where it was towed after blowing the motor just before Grants Pass heading for CA. Was headed to Thunder Hill for Ferrari day but never made it. The case is on Tuesday so they were waiting me out.

MINI/BMW does have risk in the procedure. The Chip is my weak point. But the law says the burden of proof is on MINI to prove the overrev statement. Not sure what the manual states about aftermarket products etc and voiding the warranty. It is in the car and MINI refused to send another but send the lawyer the electronic version. I have been programmming/ chipping my cars for 20 years and never had an issue. My dealers had no issues with it either. Then again their motors didn't come apart.

The down side for MINI is if the arbitrator rules for me. They have to buy the car back and then there is a track record for other to use in the future with similar problems. He said they woud want a gag order too. I said will that will get expensive. I doubt I would sign that after 6 months of them even refusing to discuss the car or a call from the worthless NW zone rep. Also I don't think I can keep my mouth shut after all this BS so why sign.

They could also appeal if I win so we are talking. If I lose I will be filling a full court case and will tell it to a jury. That will take 3 years min! My lawyer is the top lemon law lawyer in Seattle. He has been at it for 40 years and took the case because it was interesting and there is some gray area here. Just adding an aftermarket product should not void your warranty. The burden of proof is on them. But with the courts, big business and money involved you never know what will happen.

 

Good luck island maser. Hope it all goes in your favor.

 

You do not make a settlement offer unless you think there is a chance you might lose. I hope your attorney is doing the work pro-Bono!

 

They asked to settle and what our terms would be so we sent them. Have not heard back. They will wait till the last minute to counter I am sure. Nothing involving a lawyer is free. Also the AG who is oversees this lemon law program is running for Gov this year in WA state. I have involved his office in this case and expressed my views of how screwed up it is. Expensive and very slow! Lawyer took the case because we do have some grey area here. He last guess was this a 50/50 case. We also have found documents they did not send. The TBS they sent regarding the regulator value that controls the engine block internal pressure seems to be missing some pages. Very intersting. Those docs were sent by the dealer and not MINI. Either way by next week a plan to slap a motor in Jack will be in motion. I sure miss the car and I would rather keep this one then have them replace or buy it out from me. I believe they could care less about me and my car. This is all about them keeping it from being public record and establishing a link to ongoing problems. if they lose they have a lot more to loose then I do. Plus I am not going away even if i lose this one. I jury would be much better for me. We will see next week.

 

I find the fact that you knowingly performed a mod that voids the warranty (M-M Act arguments aside) and still act as though MINI owes you anything incredibly entitled and shows a incredible lack of responsibility on your part.

You already admitted that you chipped the car and redlined the motor. Suck it up and pay your dues. I'm really disheartened that this is the direction America has gone.

 

Quality Sound,

You are makeing a snap judgment without thinking it through.

What if the tune had nothing to do with the failure? It is still up to the dealer to prove that, it's the law.

Dave

 

It's not that. It's his attitude that MINI is going to pay no matter what. He's already said if they judge against him he won't go away. That's not even conceding that he MIGHT be at fault. THAT'S what I have a problem with.

 

I will let the original poster speak for himself for the definitive answer. But, everyone has an opinion.

This thread is a synopsis of a few other threads that have been ongoing regarding this issue. In the previous threads I have seen the original poster readily admit what he did to the car. I believe his biggest gripe is that he has been denied warranty coverage with no specific explanation and/or proof why. He has continually asked for information about their progress through this warranty situation and has gotten no where. What would your expectation be if you had a warranty issue with your car and you took it to the nearest dealer for that car manufacturer? How long would you expect for a diagnosis regarding what went wrong and determination of what they were going to do? I believe at this point severe frustration has set in and that is the attitude that you see. I am not sure how I would react in his shoes and truthfully I hope I never have to find out.

Now if I was working for the dealership, or MINI, I am sure I would have a different point of view. If you were able to look at both objectively the truth would probably lie somewhere in the middle.

 

Kind of agree with quality_sound here. If you want to play, you have to pay. As soon as you mod a car you let the dealer off the hook. Why should they have to prove anything, they weren't the ones that modded it.

Sorry, but I'm with MINI on this one. If you modded it and pushed the car then you should be digging in your pockets to repair it.

 

The fact that they found aftermarket software is all the proof they need, especially considering it raised the redline AND they found that he'd hit that higher limit. What more do they need to prove?

Having worked in retail/corporate mobile electronics I've been on both sides of situations like this and the person looking for coverage is ALWAYS hiding something. I'm sure he IS frustrated, but again, he's been trying to justify his position since his first post in the thread.

As you said we all have our opinions but this REEKS of entitlement, which was I was referring to. Americans in general are the most entitled people on the planet. We all think we're owed something and that people need to bend over backward to make them happy whether they're right or not. I have issues with that.

Again, just my $.02.

 

This is the bottom line!! A warranty is and has guide lines that have to be followed to the letter! Re chipping? NO!! Over Reving?? NO!! Running a performance enhancing fuel?? NO. ( PS that is also a federal requirement for vehicals driven on the streets og the US)

Piston hitting the Valves is BS, unless the cam tensionar lost pressure and the camshaft was retarded a few seconds.. the deck it .145+" and the cam can be as much as 45* out of phase befor contact.

Sorry, if you do get anywhere, then you are lucky!!

Thumper

 

How about, the sales mantra, "The customer is always right." Can MINI really afford standing behind a dealer who sandbagged a customer, who is also very vocal on the Internet?

We don't know what caused the engine failure, it could very well have been something like the High Pressure Fuel Pump or a timing chain failure, both common causes of engine failure, which would have had nothing to do with a tune that was remove weeks before.

Island Maser has been treated very poorly by the dealer with his car, he deserved better. I don't blame him for jumping right down their throat and exacting a little revenge, while he's at it. Maybe if they are hurt bad enough their customer relations will improve.

Lithia, the company who owns the dealership has a real bad reputation, just Google them and you'll see.

Dave

 

"The customer is always right" is the biggest load of rubbish and was probably started by customers!

Anyone that has worked in customer service will tell you that this is the case as I am sure they have some stories to tell. Heck, I have a few for you if you would like to hear them. Customers are generally furthest from being correct.

He tuned and tracked the car and was caught and I for one don't think that the dealer or MINI should be responsible for this. If he wants to race then he needs to flip the bill for it and pay when things fail. Maybe his HPFP was weak but would have lasted until put under heavy load. Should MINI pay for something that might have lasted? The only thing that is going to happen with this is that the cost will get passed to future customers so a big fat thanks goes out to him for suing...

How about "two wrongs don't make a right".

 

Haven't there been threads about R56s with stock ECU tunes grenading as well? It seems like these motors are inherently flawed. Considering the tune was removed well before the incident, it's only fair that MINI illustrates the tune caused the failure. If they do that, then the OP should pay up. If not, it should be up to MINI and/or the dealership.

I get what the above poster says about how entitlement and sue-happy citizens are dragging down America, but I don't think this is a good example of that problem. The OP is exercising his right to have MINI prove their case for voiding the warranty. He isn't obligated to just take their word for it, they have a responsibility to lay it all out in black and white.

 

Quality sound and daflake, you both might be right on the money....or maybe not. These cars should be able to easily handle what has been described as the cause of the failure by MINI, if that is indeed the truth. Are you both willing to tell me that in Island Maser's place you would accept their diagnosis with no proof? That you would simply accept a multi thousand dollar repair bill because someone said, yep, it was your fault, without telling you how it was your fault. I can be very reasonable, so long as someone is reasonable with me. MINI really should have no problem easily providing proof or documentation as to what happened and why. If they can do that the Island Maser has nothing to stand on and I would be saying the same thing as the two of you. But for that sum of money and for that type of catastrophic failure I would really want some proof.

Years ago I worked as a service adviser in a car dealership. We had two vehicles come in the same week with seized engines. Both customers had run the cars until they literally had no oil left. Pretty cut and dry, but it was always the dealership's responsibility to inform the customer of the diagnosis and reason for failure.

 

Actually yes I do and did. When I modded my car I took matters into my own hands and would have paid if I was told that it wasn't covered or if it was something that I caused.

Sounds to me like the dealer did provide a reason but the OP doesn't want to believe it. What kind of proof are you looking for? The dealer stated that the OP was running a tune (the op confessed to that), the dealer stated that he redlined the car several times (the OP admitted to that as well). Fuel? Are we to believe that they found a receipt or that maybe he opened his mouth and told them. Heck, he is here bad mouthing them when he is suing them which is not very bright to be honest. In fact, I am surprised his attorney hasn't told him to remove all posts in regards to the lawsuit!

If I changed the tires and the engine blew then I could see a lawsuit but they found that he had modded the ECU and raced it. I think they proved their case on this....

 

My research indicated that in the case of a tune, the dealer/MINI does not need to prove that was the cause of the failure. The mere presence of such was enough to void the warranty.

 

I think what makes this most difficult and in the end could probably make both our viewpoints valid is simply we have not lived this saga ourselves. If we had we would be able to quote very specific events as they happened to either support or refute the points each of us are making. I could be wrong but my understanding was that he had not been told the specific cause of failure within the engine. If that is true then they have not indicated that the tune or hitting the red line was the cause of the damage. Besides, what I have trouble understanding is that those events happened quite a while before the failure of the engine and the engine had been returned to stock specs and run without problem up to the point of failure. And I know the argument is going to be that those factors were what caused the ultimate failure. Makes sense but once again I am just not familiar with the specifics enough to say with certainty that is what happened.

Now, if jcauseyfd is correct and that an aftermarket tune alone is enough to void the warranty then you will find me next to you paddling the same boat. For what it is worth, I subscribe to the same school of thought. If I have done something to void the warranty, and I know it, you can bet I will be accepting of the outcome, even if I don't like it.

 

I'm pretty sure simply modding the ECU will be enough as Mini can EASILY say that the tune caused the engine to perform past it's safe limit. That's it. They've won. The OP already said he hit the rev-limiter while on the tune which means he not only voided the warranty with the tune, but again when he hit the new, raised, redline.

I said "M-M Act aside" because right now, it's not at that point.

This is EXACTLY what I was talking about. American entitlement. "I don't like what you're telling me and I'm not going to accept responsibility (it couldn't possibly be MY fault) so I'm going to **** and moan to everyone on line in a strong arm campaign to get what I don't deserve."

Yes, the process could have and should have gone better, no doubt. The point is we ALL know he is also culpable in this case and not only does he refuse to even consider that point, but he's bound and determined to make sure he doesn't pay for the repairs even if the arbitrator finds that he is.

 

That's easy. "He operated the engine beyond it's design limits which caused a fault that eventually resulted in the failure."

The OP KNEW he'd voided the warranty when he tuned the ECU.

 

If I tuned an ECU, redlined the engine while it was tuned (with the included raised redline), I absolutely would take responsibility. It's having some integrity. Hell, even if it was something that COULD have been something I did I'd pay. I KNOWINGLY modded the car. It's part of the risk you take when you mod.

And how much evidence does he need that it WAS his fault? He already said this:

So not only was it tuned, he tuned it and then ran it at a HPDE which by it's very definition, will be stressful on an engine as it's "high performance."

Then we have this bit of info:

Anyone that's spent ANY time with modern cars knows that a tachometer is slow in response to actual RPMs so his claimed cap of 6800 or 6900 RPM is more than likely 2-300 RPM lower than what he actually hit.

It may be that the info in the TSB is what caused his failure but the point is he's opened himself WIDE to question because of the mod he performed AND the manner with which he drove the car while it was tuned.