For the SECOND time in this thread. I'm not FROM Germany. I'm AMERICAN. I'm just stationed here.

 

It was an observation based on evidence provided. Calling someone entitled isn't malicious. Calling someone stupid, or the like, would have been. Also, if you READ my post I didn't even say HE was entitled. I said his POST reeked of entitlement, which leaves open the very real possibility that his writing style fell victim to his emotions. Something I am guilty of myself.

 

Not true. You called the OP "entitled." If you had called him "selfish, spoiled, rude" would those have been civil? If I said someone was "stupid" would it be civil as long as I didn't shout?? Saying he is wrong about the issue is not personal. Calling him "entitled" is personal.

Ask the OP if he is offended by you not agreeing with him about the issue, and I bet he is not. Ask if he is offended by being characterized as "entitled."

 

Read my post above.

 

I'm sorry, but that does not say the OP's writing style is "entitled."

 

My apologies. I had forgotten about that post. I remembered the latter one. Again, it was not meant as an insult, but the wording is correct. What would you have preferred I said that would have been more PC? It is still my opinion that his actions, as he has described them up to now, reek of entitlement.

 

Thanks for serving BTW... If you are a contractor, still a big thanks as we contractors often get overlooked.

LOL, 2 days after a tune, track and several over revs the car goes boom? Yep, time for Island to flip for a new engine.

Still, good luck trying to get something from them.

 

It's not a matter of being PC, its a matter of not making an argument personal.

Back to the real argument: people have commented that applying a "tune" to your car automatically voids the warranty -- not necessarily so. Mini can say whatever they like, and write whatever they want into a warranty, but that does not make it so.

In Mini's mind it may be "you applied a tune so no coverage, no question, no argument." But in court they may have to prove that the tune actually caused the damage.

OP ... how long after you removed the tune before the engine failed??

 

Read back a few posts....

 

I dont think it is that cut and dry. MINI's own JCW tune increases horsepower equal to other companies Stage one tunes but they obviously still warranty the car. I think they are going to have to prove their case and not just use the tune as a copout. We shall see. MINI touts this cat as track ready but the moment you take it on the track you are risking the warranty. Seems a little hypocritical to me.

 

I may have missed something, but it wasn't taking it on the track that got the OP into trouble with the warranty, it was the ECU tune, right? You can safely track your JCW as long as you don't tune it.

 

I did, but I am not finding a definitive answer. He wrote:

That sounds like he had the tune on the Mini for approx 4 days -- 1 day at the track, one day home, and two additional days (unless he drove home on the same days as the track, and then its 3 days).

Two days does not seem to be the lapse between removing the tune and the engine blowing up, and I could not find a post where he said how many there were (and I looked). And he said the tune had been removed before the engine blew. So how many days BEFORE the engine blew was the tune removed. [and now I will hit enter and someone else will have already found that answer, right?]

 

I didn't specify clearly that I meant the JCW stage 1 tune for the Cooper S. The only difference between a stage 1 JCW tune and a Cooper S is the ECU tune, air filter and Exhaust. So basically MINI is tuning your car without upgrading the internals but because it is MINI doing the tune the car is still under warranty. It would be interesting to see the JCW tune and the Jan tune to compare their numbers.

 

Yes, MINI has their tune but simply, it's a MINI tune. In court you'll never get a judge to buy off on a third-party company having more knowledge than the manufacturer when it comes to their ECUs. Not saying it's true, but they can easily make that case, especially considering the number of lines of code in an ECU.

I haven't looked, but does Jan's tune increase boost or HP past the Stage 1 JCW tune? If so then we're back to "the engine was operated past it's designed limits."

 

There are different stages of tunes. A stage one tune has comparable horsepower numbers to the JCW tune. Beyond that, I don't know. It would be interesting to see the number comparison. There are data logging devices that could log info like boost and such..... Would not be easy but it could be done. Obviously the manufacture is going to have an advantage but I still stand by the notion that they have to prove that the tune caused the damage even though they use a similar process to tune their own cars...

 

The ECU records all of this information, especially boost requested and delivered. All MINI would have to do is pull the ECU and read the maximum values requested and recorded.

 

MINI did send the dat overseas to have the info read. They sat the motor was over reved 5 times. I asked to see the data or tell me the amount of the overrev. They claimed it could have been a mis shift. 5 times in one day. I don't think so and in fact I know so. I was driving the car. Mini will know the exact RPM the motor has hit yet they refuse to provide that information as request several times by me and also my lawyer by subpeana. I know it never went over 7,000 RPM's and MINI voids warranty after 7100 RPM,s. The car still had a rev limiter installed and it was working. The accuracy of the tac is plus or minus 300 RPM's so we it was right in the ball park. The tune had not been on the car for 6 to 8 weeks prior to it loosing a piston. They have plenty of pure stock motors with this same failure. Yes I may have given them an out with the tune. The abitrator will make that call. It was like dealing with the Russian mob from day 1. They refused to talk to me about the car or even discuss it. A tech read I had been at a track event. That was what they went on. Accordign to them Tracking the car will void the warranty. The provide evidence that I was at the tack by digging through my glove box and pulling out a receipt for gas purchased at the track and olso from pictures package I bought through "Got Milk" from the track event. They are claiming I was racing the car. It was actually a MINI event called MINI Thunder II. Sponsered by several MINI after Market companies and Niello MINI of Sacramento. I ot an invite to attend to "learn the limits of your MINI and what it is capable of. Look at there current add on the website for the JCW! "Bred for the track with with performance tuning and parts". They want it both ways. Marketing uses it to sell cars the dealers use it against you to void your warranty. Quality and outstanding company in my book. Not! It iwll be a week to 10 days to get the ruling. They asked to talk about a settlement which we provided starting terms which we did. they never responded. They operate just like the dealer. No communication.











































t

 

Mini Maintenance Program Exclusions and Limitations:
The vehicle is deemed a total loss or used in competitive events.

This clause might be their ultimate fall-back. You may be able to work around it because the event was, as I understand it, NOT competitive in nature.

 

My reading is that according to the limited warranty that MINI provides, altering the operating parameters of the vehicle's engine, i.e. a tune, voids the warranty. Once the warranty has been voided, there is no longer any need for MINI to demonstrate fault with regard to a specific warranty coverage issue (b/c the warranty is no longer valid).

Looking forward to your report on how the hearing goes.

 

That's the information I was looking for:

How likely is it that the tune damaged the engine yet the car ran for another 6 to 8 weeks before the engine blew?

 

I think the more relevant question would be how many miles were put on the car before the motor imploded. Like others have said an aftermarket tune usually adds boost and changes the fuel mapping. The engine may have been running too rich or lean which MAY have contributed to it's failure. Not all internal engine failure is not immediate, even an oil starved engine will run for some time before it locks up. I believe the OP stated that the engine was showing some signs of failure before it completely let loose. i.e rough idle, etc.

 

You are correct, of course. If he did not drive the car in that 6 to 8 weeks, the time between removal & blowup would be irrelevant. It will be an interesting case for aribtration. And an interesting case to prove. Is there a way to prove when a tune was removed?

 

None that I'm aware of. I haven't seen an ECU that logs, or even can log, that information.