How to justify...
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2nd Gear
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How to justify...
I am a huge fan of Mini Coopers. Especially any JCW variant.
I go through cars like water...43 in my 10 years of able ownership to be exact.
However, every time I say I am going to buy a mini. I never pull the trigger.
I drive one, bam smile on my face. But still can't do it. My problem? I can't justify the purchase.
Latest example was a 06 Factory JCW with 11k. I did not want to pay more than 20k for a a JCW, I eventually got him down to 20,500. But with taxes i would have been at 22k and the color was definitely on the low end of the want list. Was blue with blue top, no roof. So much blue.
Had no car at the time, so I needed something quick, bought something I could resell fast. A pretty mint firehawk. Then I bought my 01 CLK 55 for less than the mini. There is my same dilemma. How could I justify the purchase of that mini for over 5k more then the benz.
Time has passed, and time for me to move on. I found a used R56 JCW in my color of choice used, decently loaded. However at the price point, high 20's. I start to think about my options. Used C5 Z06, Then I think, for a few more K I can find myself a nice 2002-2004 911.
So my dilemma turns into a broken record. I just can justify the cash on the JCW, when that money can buy so much more. Granted the 225whp capable after tune seems very intoxicating but...
How do you all do it?
I think my biggest problem is I am an acceleration junkie. I need speed. Just afraid the R56 JCW may not need my requirement. For those who have this JCW is it your only car? Surely if I had the coin, I would have a C6 Z06 for my speed fix, and a R56 JCW for my enjoyment.
Sorry for the long post, I really want a JCW Mini, but my dang analytical brain tells me otherwise.
I go through cars like water...43 in my 10 years of able ownership to be exact.
However, every time I say I am going to buy a mini. I never pull the trigger.
I drive one, bam smile on my face. But still can't do it. My problem? I can't justify the purchase.Latest example was a 06 Factory JCW with 11k. I did not want to pay more than 20k for a a JCW, I eventually got him down to 20,500. But with taxes i would have been at 22k and the color was definitely on the low end of the want list. Was blue with blue top, no roof. So much blue.
Had no car at the time, so I needed something quick, bought something I could resell fast. A pretty mint firehawk. Then I bought my 01 CLK 55 for less than the mini. There is my same dilemma. How could I justify the purchase of that mini for over 5k more then the benz.
Time has passed, and time for me to move on. I found a used R56 JCW in my color of choice used, decently loaded. However at the price point, high 20's. I start to think about my options. Used C5 Z06, Then I think, for a few more K I can find myself a nice 2002-2004 911.
So my dilemma turns into a broken record. I just can justify the cash on the JCW, when that money can buy so much more. Granted the 225whp capable after tune seems very intoxicating but...
How do you all do it?
I think my biggest problem is I am an acceleration junkie. I need speed. Just afraid the R56 JCW may not need my requirement. For those who have this JCW is it your only car? Surely if I had the coin, I would have a C6 Z06 for my speed fix, and a R56 JCW for my enjoyment.
Sorry for the long post, I really want a JCW Mini, but my dang analytical brain tells me otherwise.
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2nd Gear
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Neutral
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I'm new to FWD performance cars and this forum. I currently own a Ford GT and a GT500, among other cars. Both Fords are extremely powerful. The GT500 has 540 HP at the tires after the addition of a CAI, tune and pulley. Both are extremely fun to drive and I would not give up either. Needless to say, I'm definitely a horsepower junkie and speed freak.
However, despite the lower power of the JCW, it is one of the most entertaining cars I have driven. I like it so much I'm trying to find room in my garage so I can stuff one in. Although it obviously isn't as fast as my other cars, it feels fast and handles incredibly well. I've been looking for a small performance car for some time now and I've driven most of the cars in the Mini's segment, but I have not found anything that is as fun as the JCW in the "hot hatch" category. The JCW is most certainly expensive by any objective measure, but I can't say it's overpriced since it is so entertaining.
To me, it is the FWD equivalent of the Mustang GT. They are both expensive for what they are (the Mustang is a low tech, live axle throwback), but both provide thrills that aren't easily duplicated by other cars. In the final analysis, you simply can't rationalize the purchase of any performance car. The car either does it for you, or it doesn't. Buy what you like and can afford.
However, despite the lower power of the JCW, it is one of the most entertaining cars I have driven. I like it so much I'm trying to find room in my garage so I can stuff one in. Although it obviously isn't as fast as my other cars, it feels fast and handles incredibly well. I've been looking for a small performance car for some time now and I've driven most of the cars in the Mini's segment, but I have not found anything that is as fun as the JCW in the "hot hatch" category. The JCW is most certainly expensive by any objective measure, but I can't say it's overpriced since it is so entertaining.
To me, it is the FWD equivalent of the Mustang GT. They are both expensive for what they are (the Mustang is a low tech, live axle throwback), but both provide thrills that aren't easily duplicated by other cars. In the final analysis, you simply can't rationalize the purchase of any performance car. The car either does it for you, or it doesn't. Buy what you like and can afford.
Justify it this way, it's a steal compared to what we pay in Canada! My '08 MCS with taxes, prep, etc, etc would've nearly topped out at just under $38K . When you say you dont want to spend more than $20K for a JCW, cry me a river!
. When you say you dont want to spend more than $20K for a JCW, cry me a river!
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4th Gear
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I have a slightly modified 2009 JCW and I really like it. I have raced Porsches, I currently own a RS/SS Camaro and just sold my 06 BMW Z4. The JCW has a lot of perks in the fun category and although it only has 208 hp I agree that it does feel like it has more. I am waiting for the Alta ECU chip to come out and and I'll bet they can pull another 20 ponys out of a stock car. Now that is quite a bit of power for 2,600 pound car. And with the panoramic roof and the windows down I like the convertible factor better than the Z4.
For now my JCW is not for sale.
For now my JCW is not for sale.
Last edited by spinned; Sep 21, 2009 at 09:11 PM.
4th Gear
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From: 40°-55'-44" N / 73°-24'-07" W [on LI]
Nachtsturm, you can't, so don't try. A $40K MmmINI?!!!! Yet I still have it. 
p.s. I put a 2001 E55 engine in my C43 (still have it), so I know what your '01 CLK felt like. The thing is, I also put a $5500 suspension in it to make it turn well -- just in parts, ignoring the thousands in installation and re-configuration ... Here's the thing. You get that kinda handling for free with the MINI and it only gets better with modz. I think if that's high on your "wants" list you might just be able to justify it.
p.p.s. And no, the JCW can't provide the acceleration impact in your back the way the 5.4L AMG engine could. Geez, I love leaving the C43/55 in W mode sometimes, starting in 2nd, and blowing everyone else away off a stoplight with my car's engine lazily pulling me away. Summers of course are made for S mode tho, and the shorter gearing of the C43 compared to the CLK provides even more get-up & go that I can never get enough of. But that's not what the JCW is all about, and you gotta expect that, and want what it is great at. If you want a car just about as fast as the CLK430, but gets around 30mpg and handles at the top of the heap, JCW is a contender.
@spinned... 2600lbs? I thought 2800.
p.s. I put a 2001 E55 engine in my C43 (still have it), so I know what your '01 CLK felt like. The thing is, I also put a $5500 suspension in it to make it turn well -- just in parts, ignoring the thousands in installation and re-configuration ... Here's the thing. You get that kinda handling for free with the MINI and it only gets better with modz. I think if that's high on your "wants" list you might just be able to justify it.
p.p.s. And no, the JCW can't provide the acceleration impact in your back the way the 5.4L AMG engine could. Geez, I love leaving the C43/55 in W mode sometimes, starting in 2nd, and blowing everyone else away off a stoplight with my car's engine lazily pulling me away. Summers of course are made for S mode tho, and the shorter gearing of the C43 compared to the CLK provides even more get-up & go that I can never get enough of. But that's not what the JCW is all about, and you gotta expect that, and want what it is great at. If you want a car just about as fast as the CLK430, but gets around 30mpg and handles at the top of the heap, JCW is a contender.
@spinned... 2600lbs? I thought 2800.
Last edited by minim8o; Sep 21, 2009 at 09:13 PM.
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 240
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Yes, the JCW is quick. But there are much quicker cars out there, and cheaper.
But with the JCW (and all MINI's) you get the total package, go-kart handling, etc., etc. You know the drill.
If its just speed you want, look elsewhere. If you want a real drivers car, then look into it a little deeper.
But with the JCW (and all MINI's) you get the total package, go-kart handling, etc., etc. You know the drill.
If its just speed you want, look elsewhere. If you want a real drivers car, then look into it a little deeper.
4th Gear
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 547
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From: 40°-55'-44" N / 73°-24'-07" W [on LI]
That's pretty sweet. Is yours minus the sunroof and navi and other options, or loaded? (you mention the sunroof but I don't want to assume that means that you have it)
Banned
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From: Amsterdam/Nurburg/Orlando
I am a huge fan of Mini Coopers. Especially any JCW variant.
I go through cars like water...43 in my 10 years of able ownership to be exact.
However, every time I say I am going to buy a mini. I never pull the trigger. I drive one, bam smile on my face. But still can't do it. My problem? I can't justify the purchase.
Latest example was a 06 Factory JCW with 11k. I did not want to pay more than 20k for a a JCW, I eventually got him down to 20,500. But with taxes i would have been at 22k and the color was definitely on the low end of the want list. Was blue with blue top, no roof. So much blue.
Had no car at the time, so I needed something quick, bought something I could resell fast. A pretty mint firehawk. Then I bought my 01 CLK 55 for less than the mini. There is my same dilemma. How could I justify the purchase of that mini for over 5k more then the benz.
Time has passed, and time for me to move on. I found a used R56 JCW in my color of choice used, decently loaded. However at the price point, high 20's. I start to think about my options. Used C5 Z06, Then I think, for a few more K I can find myself a nice 2002-2004 911.
So my dilemma turns into a broken record. I just can justify the cash on the JCW, when that money can buy so much more. Granted the 225whp capable after tune seems very intoxicating but...
How do you all do it?
I think my biggest problem is I am an acceleration junkie. I need speed. Just afraid the R56 JCW may not need my requirement. For those who have this JCW is it your only car? Surely if I had the coin, I would have a C6 Z06 for my speed fix, and a R56 JCW for my enjoyment.
Sorry for the long post, I really want a JCW Mini, but my dang analytical brain tells me otherwise.
I go through cars like water...43 in my 10 years of able ownership to be exact.
However, every time I say I am going to buy a mini. I never pull the trigger.
I drive one, bam smile on my face. But still can't do it. My problem? I can't justify the purchase.Latest example was a 06 Factory JCW with 11k. I did not want to pay more than 20k for a a JCW, I eventually got him down to 20,500. But with taxes i would have been at 22k and the color was definitely on the low end of the want list. Was blue with blue top, no roof. So much blue.
Had no car at the time, so I needed something quick, bought something I could resell fast. A pretty mint firehawk. Then I bought my 01 CLK 55 for less than the mini. There is my same dilemma. How could I justify the purchase of that mini for over 5k more then the benz.
Time has passed, and time for me to move on. I found a used R56 JCW in my color of choice used, decently loaded. However at the price point, high 20's. I start to think about my options. Used C5 Z06, Then I think, for a few more K I can find myself a nice 2002-2004 911.
So my dilemma turns into a broken record. I just can justify the cash on the JCW, when that money can buy so much more. Granted the 225whp capable after tune seems very intoxicating but...
How do you all do it?
I think my biggest problem is I am an acceleration junkie. I need speed. Just afraid the R56 JCW may not need my requirement. For those who have this JCW is it your only car? Surely if I had the coin, I would have a C6 Z06 for my speed fix, and a R56 JCW for my enjoyment.
Sorry for the long post, I really want a JCW Mini, but my dang analytical brain tells me otherwise.
You are so right about the feeling of a fast mini
4th Gear
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: 40°-55'-44" N / 73°-24'-07" W [on LI]
You might want to have a look in your manual. If it wasn't 1am I'd go out & grab mine for the page number where it's detailed.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2006
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The manual states 1205 kg (2650lbs) but that includes a driver's weight. The weight without that weight is 1130kg (2490lbs)
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2nd Gear
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I'm new to FWD performance cars and this forum. I currently own a Ford GT and a GT500, among other cars. Both Fords are extremely powerful. The GT500 has 540 HP at the tires after the addition of a CAI, tune and pulley. Both are extremely fun to drive and I would not give up either. Needless to say, I'm definitely a horsepower junkie and speed freak.
However, despite the lower power of the JCW, it is one of the most entertaining cars I have driven. I like it so much I'm trying to find room in my garage so I can stuff one in. Although it obviously isn't as fast as my other cars, it feels fast and handles incredibly well. I've been looking for a small performance car for some time now and I've driven most of the cars in the Mini's segment, but I have not found anything that is as fun as the JCW in the "hot hatch" category. The JCW is most certainly expensive by any objective measure, but I can't say it's overpriced since it is so entertaining.
To me, it is the FWD equivalent of the Mustang GT. They are both expensive for what they are (the Mustang is a low tech, live axle throwback), but both provide thrills that aren't easily duplicated by other cars. In the final analysis, you simply can't rationalize the purchase of any performance car. The car either does it for you, or it doesn't. Buy what you like and can afford.
However, despite the lower power of the JCW, it is one of the most entertaining cars I have driven. I like it so much I'm trying to find room in my garage so I can stuff one in. Although it obviously isn't as fast as my other cars, it feels fast and handles incredibly well. I've been looking for a small performance car for some time now and I've driven most of the cars in the Mini's segment, but I have not found anything that is as fun as the JCW in the "hot hatch" category. The JCW is most certainly expensive by any objective measure, but I can't say it's overpriced since it is so entertaining.
To me, it is the FWD equivalent of the Mustang GT. They are both expensive for what they are (the Mustang is a low tech, live axle throwback), but both provide thrills that aren't easily duplicated by other cars. In the final analysis, you simply can't rationalize the purchase of any performance car. The car either does it for you, or it doesn't. Buy what you like and can afford.
So here is the question I have for you. You can only have one car, besides the GT,
which do you choose between the GT500 and JCW? Because a GT500 can be had for mid 30's now.It's a never ending dilemma.
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2nd Gear
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Nachtsturm, you can't, so don't try. A $40K MmmINI?!!!! Yet I still have it.
p.s. I put a 2001 E55 engine in my C43 (still have it), so I know what your '01 CLK felt like. The thing is, I also put a $5500 suspension in it to make it turn well -- just in parts, ignoring the thousands in installation and re-configuration ... Here's the thing. You get that kinda handling for free with the MINI and it only gets better with modz. I think if that's high on your "wants" list you might just be able to justify it.
p.p.s. And no, the JCW can't provide the acceleration impact in your back the way the 5.4L AMG engine could. Geez, I love leaving the C43/55 in W mode sometimes, starting in 2nd, and blowing everyone else away off a stoplight with my car's engine lazily pulling me away. Summers of course are made for S mode tho, and the shorter gearing of the C43 compared to the CLK provides even more get-up & go that I can never get enough of. But that's not what the JCW is all about, and you gotta expect that, and want what it is great at. If you want a car just about as fast as the CLK430, but gets around 30mpg and handles at the top of the heap, JCW is a contender.
@spinned... 2600lbs? I thought 2800.
p.s. I put a 2001 E55 engine in my C43 (still have it), so I know what your '01 CLK felt like. The thing is, I also put a $5500 suspension in it to make it turn well -- just in parts, ignoring the thousands in installation and re-configuration ... Here's the thing. You get that kinda handling for free with the MINI and it only gets better with modz. I think if that's high on your "wants" list you might just be able to justify it.
p.p.s. And no, the JCW can't provide the acceleration impact in your back the way the 5.4L AMG engine could. Geez, I love leaving the C43/55 in W mode sometimes, starting in 2nd, and blowing everyone else away off a stoplight with my car's engine lazily pulling me away. Summers of course are made for S mode tho, and the shorter gearing of the C43 compared to the CLK provides even more get-up & go that I can never get enough of. But that's not what the JCW is all about, and you gotta expect that, and want what it is great at. If you want a car just about as fast as the CLK430, but gets around 30mpg and handles at the top of the heap, JCW is a contender.
@spinned... 2600lbs? I thought 2800.
The biggest contender with the JCW is a 911 right now. But I am drawn to the JCW still.
Are you on mbworld? I am ubergeist over there.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2006
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the JCW is a pure handling machine. The fact that it's front wheel drive means that it's not going to be very good at putting mega power down.
That said, you'll easily get into the 13s with a tune alone. A stock JCW will get into the low 14s.
Intercooler and a DP would probably get you into the high 13s.
If you really like speed, get a 911 and you'll be into the 13s without mods, and you'll have a great handling car as well.
If you're more interested in power than handling, I don't see why you'd go for the JCW?
That said, you'll easily get into the 13s with a tune alone. A stock JCW will get into the low 14s.
Intercooler and a DP would probably get you into the high 13s.
If you really like speed, get a 911 and you'll be into the 13s without mods, and you'll have a great handling car as well.
If you're more interested in power than handling, I don't see why you'd go for the JCW?
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2nd Gear
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the JCW is a pure handling machine. The fact that it's front wheel drive means that it's not going to be very good at putting mega power down.
That said, you'll easily get into the 13s with a tune alone. A stock JCW will get into the low 14s.
Intercooler and a DP would probably get you into the high 13s.
If you really like speed, get a 911 and you'll be into the 13s without mods, and you'll have a great handling car as well.
If you're more interested in power than handling, I don't see why you'd go for the JCW?
That said, you'll easily get into the 13s with a tune alone. A stock JCW will get into the low 14s.
Intercooler and a DP would probably get you into the high 13s.
If you really like speed, get a 911 and you'll be into the 13s without mods, and you'll have a great handling car as well.
If you're more interested in power than handling, I don't see why you'd go for the JCW?
I go for what I have fun driving in. And the Coopers put a grin on my face. I would like a good balance, if I just wanted speed, I would buy another 03-04 Cobra. That car is such a pita to drive.
I would just like to see if the JCW would meet my speed needs. The fun factor is for sure already there. I have no problem with higher hp FWD cars.
I have owned a APR chipped GTI, 3 SRT-4's, and a Mazdaspeed 3.
My last srt-4 with 244whp 278tq ran 13.6@107. If i can get to that type of speed, the JCW is for sure for me. And it will be about 5 years newer than the 911 and cheaper, while still under warranty.
My MS3 was never dyno'ed, but I would also be happy with that power level as well. Had a cobb intake, and forge bpv.
Neutral
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I believe the '07-'09 GT500 is an excellent value at the current prices. The 5.4 V8 makes HUGE power with minimal tweaks and, with few exceptions, rarely do you see a powertrain failure in heavily modified cars. The '07-09 cars are the best looking in my purely subjective opinion. I also believe that they will tend to hold their value since many do not like the redesigned 2010 GT500, even though it is functionally better.
While the GT500 handles reasonably well given its 3900 curb weight, it's certainly no MINI in the handling department. The GT500s are capable of big power but traction is always a problem with the stock suspension and tires. It's rear wheel drive which, in my opinion, is "proper" for a performance car for a number of reasons.
I would have the GT500 over the JCW only because I'm biased in favor of the Ford, not because it is necessarily the better car. Sure it's faster in a straight line but the Mini would leave it for dead on a tight track. I've driven the Dragon many times on motorcycles. I wouldn't look forward to driving it with the GT500. On the other hand, I can't wait to get a JCW on that road.
Both are really great looking-retro cars.
Drive both and make your own judgment.
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2nd Gear
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That is a very difficult question. Full disclosure-I'm a huge Ford fan.
I believe the '07-'09 GT500 is an excellent value at the current prices. The 5.4 V8 makes HUGE power with minimal tweaks and, with few exceptions, rarely do you see a powertrain failure in heavily modified cars. The '07-09 cars are the best looking in my purely subjective opinion. I also believe that they will tend to hold their value since many do not like the redesigned 2010 GT500, even though it is functionally better.
While the GT500 handles reasonably well given its 3900 curb weight, it's certainly no MINI in the handling department. The GT500s are capable of big power but traction is always a problem with the stock suspension and tires. It's rear wheel drive which, in my opinion, is "proper" for a performance car for a number of reasons.
I would have the GT500 over the JCW only because I'm biased in favor of the Ford, not because it is necessarily the better car. Sure it's faster in a straight line but the Mini would leave it for dead on a tight track. I've driven the Dragon many times on motorcycles. I wouldn't look forward to driving it with the GT500. On the other hand, I can't wait to get a JCW on that road.
Both are really great looking-retro cars.
Drive both and make your own judgment.
I believe the '07-'09 GT500 is an excellent value at the current prices. The 5.4 V8 makes HUGE power with minimal tweaks and, with few exceptions, rarely do you see a powertrain failure in heavily modified cars. The '07-09 cars are the best looking in my purely subjective opinion. I also believe that they will tend to hold their value since many do not like the redesigned 2010 GT500, even though it is functionally better.
While the GT500 handles reasonably well given its 3900 curb weight, it's certainly no MINI in the handling department. The GT500s are capable of big power but traction is always a problem with the stock suspension and tires. It's rear wheel drive which, in my opinion, is "proper" for a performance car for a number of reasons.
I would have the GT500 over the JCW only because I'm biased in favor of the Ford, not because it is necessarily the better car. Sure it's faster in a straight line but the Mini would leave it for dead on a tight track. I've driven the Dragon many times on motorcycles. I wouldn't look forward to driving it with the GT500. On the other hand, I can't wait to get a JCW on that road.
Both are really great looking-retro cars.
Drive both and make your own judgment.
I test drove an 07 GT500 when I shopping awhile back. At the time I was torn between a C5Z or GT500. I test drove an 05 and 06 JCW(haven't driven an R56) But I agree with you. I like both, but my desire for straight line speed always gets in the way lol. GT500 was nice, but man what a tank lol. Reason why I went with C5Z.Looks like I will have to test drive the R56 JCW. For sure.
4th Gear
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: 40°-55'-44" N / 73°-24'-07" W [on LI]
? As far as I know no declared vehicle weight ever includes a single passenger's weight as that's the most variable aspect of this equation. The closest a car's specs comes to that is supplying a Gross weight, which specifies the weight of all permissible cargo and passengers.I don't know your country as it's not in your sig or other place in the post. But the US car's specs for the Mini Cooper S on page 201 of the manual reads:
Curb weight, ready for travel, with all optional extras:
> Manual Trans: 2668 lbs / 1210 Kg
(that definitely doesn't imply it includes a driver's weight, but rather all fluids; tho, wonder why the US car's a few lbs heavier than your country's)
Approved Gross Weight
>Manual Trans: 3484 lbs / 1580 Kg
If "ready for travel" means fully laden with fuel, and wiperwash (and cup holders filled with 1L bottles!
), and one doesn't have a loaded Mini (I do have almost every option), I guess I see now how the car's about 2500 lbs or less stripped of all options with an empty tank. I thought my car was closer to 2800lbs with the sunroof. With the assumption sunroof weight is included in "all available options", I feel a lot better now. And can believe the 2500lb statement for the base car sans all options.