JCW brake upgrades-(lines + fluid)
#1
06-20-2009, 05:46 AM
JCW brake upgrades-(lines + fluid)
Hey guys,
Just wondering if anyone has done any upgrades to the stock Factory JCW brakes. I'm buying Goodridge SS brake lines and Motul RBF600 fluid, and just wondering if 1) there is a How-to around here somewhere, 2)What difference it's made for people, and 3) if the lines are identical for R56JCWs vs R56MCS
Thanks,
Elie
Just wondering if anyone has done any upgrades to the stock Factory JCW brakes. I'm buying Goodridge SS brake lines and Motul RBF600 fluid, and just wondering if 1) there is a How-to around here somewhere, 2)What difference it's made for people, and 3) if the lines are identical for R56JCWs vs R56MCS
Thanks,
Elie
#2
06-20-2009, 07:44 AM
2nd Gear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Brescia, ITALY
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm planning the same on this monday!
Yes the line is the same part-number
JCW: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...73&hg=34&fg=15
MCS: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...73&hg=34&fg=15
For brake fluid I've prefered the Castrol SRF (best wet bolling temp) http://www.raceshopper.com/brake_fluid.shtml
Yes the line is the same part-number
JCW: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...73&hg=34&fg=15
MCS: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...73&hg=34&fg=15
For brake fluid I've prefered the Castrol SRF (best wet bolling temp) http://www.raceshopper.com/brake_fluid.shtml
#4
06-20-2009, 03:58 PM
6th Gear
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,589
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey guys,
Just wondering if anyone has done any upgrades to the stock Factory JCW brakes. I'm buying Goodridge SS brake lines and Motul RBF600 fluid, and just wondering if 1) there is a How-to around here somewhere, 2)What difference it's made for people, and 3) if the lines are identical for R56JCWs vs R56MCS
Thanks,
Elie
Just wondering if anyone has done any upgrades to the stock Factory JCW brakes. I'm buying Goodridge SS brake lines and Motul RBF600 fluid, and just wondering if 1) there is a How-to around here somewhere, 2)What difference it's made for people, and 3) if the lines are identical for R56JCWs vs R56MCS
Thanks,
Elie
#5
06-21-2009, 12:10 AM
Does anyone know where I can get the cheapest prices for Goodridge SS lines? They are considered to be the best yeah?
Last edited by etalj; 06-21-2009 at 12:24 AM.
#6
06-21-2009, 05:48 PM
2nd Gear
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Wilmington, DE
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
mixture of fast road use and track. Not going to upgrade pads till the stock ones wear out. DS2500s will replace the stock pads later this year probably...
Does anyone know where I can get the cheapest prices for Goodridge SS lines? They are considered to be the best yeah?
Does anyone know where I can get the cheapest prices for Goodridge SS lines? They are considered to be the best yeah?
#7
06-24-2009, 05:39 PM
I'm planning the same on this monday!
Yes the line is the same part-number
JCW: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...73&hg=34&fg=15
MCS: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...73&hg=34&fg=15
For brake fluid I've prefered the Castrol SRF (best wet bolling temp) http://www.raceshopper.com/brake_fluid.shtml
Yes the line is the same part-number
JCW: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...73&hg=34&fg=15
MCS: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...73&hg=34&fg=15
For brake fluid I've prefered the Castrol SRF (best wet bolling temp) http://www.raceshopper.com/brake_fluid.shtml
Might also get DS3000s, haven't decided yet.
Also, what's the difference between the Goodridge race lines and the street lines?
Trending Topics
#8
06-24-2009, 11:00 PM
I've got the Texas Speed Works rotors and non-Goodridge lines. In fact, I bought the rear lines used and do not even know what brand they are. It's not possible to say the Goodridge lines are the "good ones" as in "superior." Stainless lines are pretty much the same. Sometimes for racing we'll make our own so that we can have different inner diameters, but we're also playing around wtih resevoir size and placement, as well as, caliper piston size. This is not necessary for street or even track days. You'd see our race kits contain a variety of fittings and bulk lines so that we can fabricate lines at the track. Sometimes this is done for a performance purpose and other times it is to replace something that got broken in a crash.
I disagree with a previous post that says you can't feel the difference in rubber and SS lines if you are not on the track. If that is the case, truly, I'd have to question whether the lines were properly bled. One of the first things you can notice when switching from rubber to SS lines with MINI Cooper is that a wee bit of the intial, gradual grab is lost. It is apparent when you slightly feather the pedal. The rubber lines allow a tiny bit more gradual pressure at the beginning of the stroke. This is not a real problem, but it is noticeable. Also, you should be able to notice a slight difference when you jam the brakes on. The jam on a little quicker and tighter with SS lines. Albiet, anti-brake systems can make this a little bit hard to feel and, possibly, a non-issue. All that said, there has rarely been an automobile or motorcycle in my garage that does not get fitted with SS lines.
In addition to the aforementioned rotors and SS lines, I use EBC green pads and a purple brake fluild for my street MINI.
Someone above asked about the difference between race and street SS lines from Goodridge. Race lines offer higher performance under more demanding conditions. Specifically, they offer higher flow (large inner diameter). are lighter, and, maybe, withstand higher temperatures longer (sometimes you'll see a difference in the PTFE line thickness or, rarely, composition). Race application does not necessarily mean a part is better for street, too. Sometimes race parts don't work as well for a street driver. Example: a specialty vendor offered a kevlor clutch plate for turbocharged drag racing engines. If your engine was not turbocharged, then the clutch couldn't spin fast enough to make enough heat for the kevlor pad to bite. So, take it easy when it comes to spending additional bucks for race parts for street application.
I disagree with a previous post that says you can't feel the difference in rubber and SS lines if you are not on the track. If that is the case, truly, I'd have to question whether the lines were properly bled. One of the first things you can notice when switching from rubber to SS lines with MINI Cooper is that a wee bit of the intial, gradual grab is lost. It is apparent when you slightly feather the pedal. The rubber lines allow a tiny bit more gradual pressure at the beginning of the stroke. This is not a real problem, but it is noticeable. Also, you should be able to notice a slight difference when you jam the brakes on. The jam on a little quicker and tighter with SS lines. Albiet, anti-brake systems can make this a little bit hard to feel and, possibly, a non-issue. All that said, there has rarely been an automobile or motorcycle in my garage that does not get fitted with SS lines.
In addition to the aforementioned rotors and SS lines, I use EBC green pads and a purple brake fluild for my street MINI.
Someone above asked about the difference between race and street SS lines from Goodridge. Race lines offer higher performance under more demanding conditions. Specifically, they offer higher flow (large inner diameter). are lighter, and, maybe, withstand higher temperatures longer (sometimes you'll see a difference in the PTFE line thickness or, rarely, composition). Race application does not necessarily mean a part is better for street, too. Sometimes race parts don't work as well for a street driver. Example: a specialty vendor offered a kevlor clutch plate for turbocharged drag racing engines. If your engine was not turbocharged, then the clutch couldn't spin fast enough to make enough heat for the kevlor pad to bite. So, take it easy when it comes to spending additional bucks for race parts for street application.
Last edited by billie_morini; 06-25-2009 at 01:52 PM.
#9
06-25-2009, 10:23 AM
Race application does not necessarily mean a part is better for street, too. Sometimes street parts don't work as well for a street driver. Example: a specialty vendor offered a kevlor clutch plate for turbocharged engines. If your engine was not turbocharged, then the clutch couldn't spin fast enough to make enough heat for the kevlor pad to bite. So, take it easy when it comes to spending additional bucks for race parts for street application.
Are you tracking/autoxing your car? SS lines and high temp fluid will help, but you should also get dedicated pads for track use.
On the other end, get real race pads and they probably won't be safe on the street because they require a certain amount of heat to work properly. You just don't brake hard enough on the street to build up the necessary heat. I doubt even a run at the auto-x would heat them up sufficiently.
my $0.02
#10
06-25-2009, 08:42 PM
Yes, I completely understand the fact that some products made for the track will actually be worse for the street. Basically all I want to know is whether or not the Goodridge "race" lines are better on the road than the "street" version.
I used to run Ferodo DS2500s on the road, and they were awesome. Just wondering if anyone's tried the DS3000 on the road, and can offer an opinion?
I used to run Ferodo DS2500s on the road, and they were awesome. Just wondering if anyone's tried the DS3000 on the road, and can offer an opinion?
#11
06-26-2009, 12:08 AM
Good on ya', etalj!
Can you be more specific about the Goodridge lines you are considering, please? I make this request because within the G-Line there are several hose product lines. Ditto for the 600 line and both of these can be used on street or track. I'm guessing the 200 lines are what you are calling street lines. But, let me know about that, too.
Have you noticed that some of the G Line fittings are drilled for safety wire? They've got them pre-drilled for at least two of the hoses within the G Line. That makes them cost more and probably isn't something you need on the street.
Anyway, one of the ways lines get selected for racing is by comparing inner diameters. Goodridge is pretty good about providing these kinds of dimensions. They're also pretty good at stating whether the (track or street) lines are convoluted or smooth bore. If you can tell me a little more which ones you refer to as "race" and "stree" lines, we can get to the bottom of what you might really want.
Can you be more specific about the Goodridge lines you are considering, please? I make this request because within the G-Line there are several hose product lines. Ditto for the 600 line and both of these can be used on street or track. I'm guessing the 200 lines are what you are calling street lines. But, let me know about that, too.
Have you noticed that some of the G Line fittings are drilled for safety wire? They've got them pre-drilled for at least two of the hoses within the G Line. That makes them cost more and probably isn't something you need on the street.
Anyway, one of the ways lines get selected for racing is by comparing inner diameters. Goodridge is pretty good about providing these kinds of dimensions. They're also pretty good at stating whether the (track or street) lines are convoluted or smooth bore. If you can tell me a little more which ones you refer to as "race" and "stree" lines, we can get to the bottom of what you might really want.
#12
06-26-2009, 09:22 PM
Hehe, thanks for taking the time. Basically a guy from autoxcooper.com told me whether I wanted the street lines or the race lines. There is only one kit available from Merlin motorsport, so I'm going with those. Could you offer an opinion on them? There doesn't seem to be any info on the name or inner diameter. Here is the link: http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p9...duct_info.html
thanks for your help
thanks for your help
#13
06-27-2009, 01:21 AM
OK, here we go now. First off, you may enjoy reviewing this Goodridge catalogue (http://www.goodridge.net/usa/pdf/Goo...ogue2007.pdfa). You’ll see a page that minimally describes the kits like the ones you brought to my attention. You’ll also see other pages about the things I was yammering about. I’m thinking the “street” moniker has to do with the pre-packaged commercial kits like the one you identified for me and the “race” moniker has to do with what I was referring to. It’s the latter kits and material that my racing partner and I would select from for racing. Many times we would make our own lines using bulk hose and crimping or threading/screwing the fittings to it. This approach requires that you know what you want and what to do with it. My racing partner was especially good at putting the lines together. One thing that many people don’t realize is that it’s the smaller inner diameter (I.D.) that provides better feel, especially at the outset of pedal application. But, the smaller I.D. line costs a wee bit more than the larger I.D. line. As mentioned previously, the true racing line materials are lighter than the lower cost street stuff. This includes the fittings and sometimes you’ll see a heavy-handed, less experienced guy wreck a race fitting because he doesn’t realize they are lighter/thinner. Nonetheless, knowing a little about this does not mean I don’t buy pre-fabricated kits for use on my household’s street cars. I’m sometimes lazy or am not in a cycle where I have/am buying bulk lines and fittings. The convenient and lower cost thing to do in these cases is to buy the pre-packaged “street” kit for automobile, motorcycle, or bicycle. Can you believe bicycles have evolved to this point? Another thing you sometimes find is the “steet” line kits pre-packaged, especially for motorcycles, have a Teflon, Tygon, or other outer tubing to prevent the braided stainless steel (SS) line from sawing through whatever it contacts. It’s always a good habit to assure clearance by orientation when using SS braided lines to prevent this from occurring.
As far as I know, if you wanted “race” kit in Goodridge parts, you’d select individual fittings and bulk line. With bulk line, there are multiple options (see catalogue). Is all this necessary for street, track day, and occasional club racing use? Probably not. I am aware of several different kits like the one you identified. Here are some examples:
As far as I know, if you wanted “race” kit in Goodridge parts, you’d select individual fittings and bulk line. With bulk line, there are multiple options (see catalogue). Is all this necessary for street, track day, and occasional club racing use? Probably not. I am aware of several different kits like the one you identified. Here are some examples:
$200 for 56 [coated!] -- http://new.minimania.com/web/item/G2.../InvDetail.cfm
$200 for 53 -- http://new.minimania.com/web/item/NMB1003/InvDetail.cfm
$140 for 53 -- http://www.sneedspeedshop.com/MINICooperParts.html
$115 for 53 & maybe 56 -- http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...i&subcat_id=22
When you buy any of these, you rarely can find out the kind of detail like the aforementioned catalogue provides. In many cases, the vendors selling the parts do not know these details. That is not bad if you are not racing at professional level. At best, the pre-packaged street kit will be something like the Goodridge 600-03 (catalogue page 25). At worst, it’s close enough to this for street use.
I looked at this link you posted: www.autoxcooper.com. It looks like you can get a set of 4 SS braided lines from them for less than $90. That seems like a really good price. And look, they provide this important information: “JCW FYI, we have discovered that the R53/52/50 JCW Brake kits have TWO different lines based on when the kit was MADE. Since there is no way to know when the kit was made you need to look at the front caliper, the older style will use the lines on the top pic with Banjo fitting. The bottom pic is the newer style ends, like R56, but the fitting at the R53/52/50 body is different then the R56, so the R56 lines will not work on an R53/52/50 with later built JCW kit. When ordering lines for the R53/52/50 JCW brakes do not assume they are R56 lines. If you just don't know, email Dustin a pic of where the brake line bolts to the front or rear caliper."
When you buy any of these, you rarely can find out the kind of detail like the aforementioned catalogue provides. In many cases, the vendors selling the parts do not know these details. That is not bad if you are not racing at professional level. At best, the pre-packaged street kit will be something like the Goodridge 600-03 (catalogue page 25). At worst, it’s close enough to this for street use.
I looked at this link you posted: www.autoxcooper.com. It looks like you can get a set of 4 SS braided lines from them for less than $90. That seems like a really good price. And look, they provide this important information: “JCW FYI, we have discovered that the R53/52/50 JCW Brake kits have TWO different lines based on when the kit was MADE. Since there is no way to know when the kit was made you need to look at the front caliper, the older style will use the lines on the top pic with Banjo fitting. The bottom pic is the newer style ends, like R56, but the fitting at the R53/52/50 body is different then the R56, so the R56 lines will not work on an R53/52/50 with later built JCW kit. When ordering lines for the R53/52/50 JCW brakes do not assume they are R56 lines. If you just don't know, email Dustin a pic of where the brake line bolts to the front or rear caliper."
Based on the price, I’d be inclined to get these. I’m not opposed to buying used parts to save money and the rear set of SS braided lines on my 2006 S were purchased used. I didn’t buy the front lines until I found a sale on them.
Finally to directly answer your question about the kit from Merlin, it’ll be fine; no worse or better than any of the other pre-packaged “street” kits that you can use on street, track days, and club racing.
#14
06-29-2009, 07:01 AM
Thanks very much for your help buddy. I'm probably stuck with the Goodridge, cos nothing else would be legal here in Australia. I'm also getting stainless steel fittings, instead of the zinc plated steel fittings...
#15
06-29-2009, 06:55 PM
I upgraded mine.... I installed carbotech bobcat brake pads for the fronts (that way I'm running ceramics and when I get to the track, I'll swap out for the XP10's) and I'm running XP8's on the rear as daily pads.
I also changed over to stainless steel lines. I did have a set of Goodrich's on order but after seeing how the ends are easily broken, I went with a different brand.(funny, I can't think of the brand name off top of my head but nonetheless, ends are much better)
Once brakes are bedded, they are GREAT... definitely ready for the track.
Mark
I also changed over to stainless steel lines. I did have a set of Goodrich's on order but after seeing how the ends are easily broken, I went with a different brand.(funny, I can't think of the brand name off top of my head but nonetheless, ends are much better)
Once brakes are bedded, they are GREAT... definitely ready for the track.
Mark
#16
06-29-2009, 07:31 PM
6th Gear
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,589
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#17
06-29-2009, 10:43 PM
Really? So I'm stuffed then....
#18
06-30-2009, 05:32 AM
No, not at all.... People have been running Goodrich lines for years and they obviously are a very common choice. It was shown to me SEVERAL sets of brake lines that the ends had broken off.
The brand I have now has much better designed ends on it. Does it mean that a set of Goodrichs' will break? No, I just don't want to take that chance.
Mark
The brand I have now has much better designed ends on it. Does it mean that a set of Goodrichs' will break? No, I just don't want to take that chance.
Mark
#19
06-30-2009, 08:06 AM
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
igzekyativ
MINIs & Minis for Sale
34
07-16-2020 12:54 PM
minimofo
JCW Garage
50
04-04-2016 07:36 PM
minimofo
JCW Garage
26
12-26-2015 11:45 AM