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Both are JCW with the same spec's. Only diff I see is the price and part numbers and availability ship dates. BTW both show only a 15HP gain rather than the advertised 20 HP by MINI.
I wonder if anyone has done the ECU remap without the exhaust install and see if there is a noticeable performance boost?
Obviously, wouldn't make any financial sense to spend the money on the kit and not install the exhaust, but was wondering if a remap was done first and tested (to see if there was a noticeable boost) before the exhaust was replaced?
Honestly not at all interested in changing my car's exhaust note (plenty loud for my tastes as it is stock). I would however like to get the few extra HP boost w/o installing an aftermarket tuner.
Does Anyone happen to know if installing a JCW kit to a MCS increases value or decreases it?
Anyone ask dealership if during a trade appraisal if installing the kit lowers their trade offer? Stays the same?
Always wonder about value of the car with any aftermarket stuff added. A shame to spend $2800 for a JCW kit and find they decrease the value of your trade by that much again because you added it. I suppose I could live with zero increase in value (since I'm adding it for me), just like adding graphics or scuttle and mirror caps. I don't want to lose money because I added it compared to leaving it stock expecially considering the modest gains it provides.
Does Anyone happen to know if installing a JCW kit to a MCS increases value or decreases it?
Anyone ask dealership if during a trade appraisal if installing the kit lowers their trade offer? Stays the same?
Always wonder about value of the car with any aftermarket stuff added. A shame to spend $2800 for a JCW kit and find they decrease the value of your trade by that much again because you added it. I suppose I could live with zero increase in value (since I'm adding it for me), just like adding graphics or scuttle and mirror caps. I don't want to lose money because I added it compared to leaving it stock expecially considering the modest gains it provides.
I would assume you will get a few answers but here is mine after owning, buying, selling and modifying about 30 cars through the years.
Mods hurt not only the value but also limit the audience if trying to sell private party. When trading into a dealer they will give you $.00 to the dollar for mods as they just wholsale price out your trade. If selling private party and if you have a few mods the buyer wants it will be about $.20 to the dollar of value.
At the end of the day you are better off taking off all mods and get the car back to stock then sell the mods on a forum like this to get them purchased by folks that want them.
Lastly in general any modded car will deter most even if they like mods and are going to do their own. For example, I will mod my car but I want to buy a car from the grandma that never drove over 50 mph or 3k rpm. Then I want to put on the mods that I want based on my research, not someone elses.
There you go that is my $.02. If you want to mod then go do it and enjoy every last one with the mentality you will get nothing back from those, you will be happier in the long run.
I have the feeling it will add value and an upsale when you do sell your MINI, I am always looking for a new MINI that has rare and many JCW upgrades, but thy are hard to find. So for the enthusiast MINI owner most factory upgrades are a hook to bring there potential to buy. Maybe at a MINI dealership they will increase the sale price beacuse they know what upsale it has, but for the one setting on a Car lot in Carmax, they don't know what those are and price it the same as market stock options.
Yep. Increases the value to me! That's why I modify my cars. It makes me happy.
Keep your stock parts and swap them out when you trade it in, although there's no way to remove and resell the tune you can resell the exhaust system. I took a real hit when I traded my R56 because it was a spur of the moment thing and I didn't have time to R&R the parts. I could have gotten a couple grand more on a private sale, easily. Matter of fact, the dealer put my car on his lot priced at $5500 more than he gave me. Ended up selling for $4500 more. I don't, and never have bought cars, trucks, or bikes with an eye toward resale price. And, at almost 69 years old this could possibly be the last new car I buy. I'm gonna mod to my hearts content and enjoy the ride knowing that my Daughter or Grandson will enjoy it when I assume room temp or can no longer drive.
Since I just installed the tuning kit, the next thing up is wheels, and I'll make sure they'll clear the JCW brakes because the brakes and JCW coilovers are calling my name. Just have to save some coin for the future mods.
Edit: I agree with ECS. I think with OEM options you will actually increase the value.
I have heard that one can stack the JCW Mini S tune, and either Dinan or NM. That true folks? Keep them on lower settings, and combo works great? I have JCW tune, like it, wanted to stack with one of the boxes. Comments?
I have heard that one can stack the JCW Mini S tune, and either Dinan or NM. That true folks? Keep them on lower settings, and combo works great? I have JCW tune, like it, wanted to stack with one of the boxes. Comments?
It's my understanding the one that provides the biggest increase in performance is the amount you get.
So if you installed the JCW tune from Mini and get a 20 HP boost, then add a Dinan that advertises a 30 HP boost, stacking them will likely only yield a 30 HP boost, not 50HP. Mapping only allows for so much boost and other adjustments to be applied before you start throwing codes or go into "limp mode".
Likely those w/ the JCW tune and the NM are feeling the NM HP and torque figures rather than the JCW tune numbers (because they are greater). Of course you get the nice exhaust w/ the JCW tune which doesn't come w/ the NM power module. You may also pick up a couple HP more due to the less restrictive exhaust w/ the JCW tune kit.
It's my understanding the one that provides the biggest increase in performance is the amount you get.
So if you installed the JCW tune from Mini and get a 20 HP boost, then add a Dinan that advertises a 30 HP boost, stacking them will likely only yield a 30 HP boost, not 50HP. Mapping only allows for so much boost and other adjustments to be applied before you start throwing codes or go into "limp mode".
Likely those w/ the JCW tune and the NM are feeling the NM HP and torque figures rather than the JCW tune numbers (because they are greater). Of course you get the nice exhaust w/ the JCW tune which doesn't come w/ the NM power module. You may also pick up a couple HP more due to the less restrictive exhaust w/ the JCW tune kit.
That is partially incorrect. You can stack JCW Tune with a piggyback and reap benefits from both. You will still gain extra boost pressure over the JCW tune with the piggyback resulting in more power.
Companies generally only advertise "high" settings and best case scenario results. High setting shouldn't be run when combined with the JCW tune.
Someone did dyno's with JCW tune and NM in low setting and it was probably around 20-30 hp more than a car with just the NM piggyback.
Yep. I'm afraid I have to disagree with you too Dennis. I ran my car with only the NM for three months before installing the JCW Tuning Kit. I can tell you without reservation that the combo is head and shoulders above either mod by itself. There are dyno tests that I've seen that show 267-270HP with this combo. I have also driven mine with only the JCW Tune several times when I have had to take the car in for service. The tune alone gives it a nice boost, but does not compare to the combination of the two. YMMV
Yep. I'm afraid I have to disagree with you too Dennis. I ran my car with only the NM for three months before installing the JCW Tuning Kit. I can tell you without reservation that the combo is head and shoulders above either mod by itself. There are dyno tests that I've seen that show 267-270HP with this combo. I have also driven mine with only the JCW Tune several times when I have had to take the car in for service. The tune alone gives it a nice boost, but does not compare to the combination of the two. YMMV
Yessir!
So boxes like the NM or Dinan Sport "trick" the car's engine management system into calling for more boost. What is supposed to happen is that other sensors not linked to or modulated by the plug-in box very quickly "adapt" to air/fuel needs to prevent over-lean and make necessary valve and timing adjustments. Sort of cascading magic.
The JCW tune, in addition to less restrictive and different sounding exhaust, adjusts the DME programming so the engine management systems operate using slightly different algorithms and parameters -- the idea being that engine potential is better, and more seamlessly, optimized. Smoother power, and more of it result.
This is where it gets interesting. Either way, just a plug-in box or plug-in box + JCW tune, the engine is being tricked and the DME is receiving a signal that causes it to add more boost.
If one adds a single-input plug-in box on top of a tune, the DME is still "tricked" into "thinking" there's less boost than is really there, so, IN ADDITION to the smoother increase in power from a JCW tune, your engine is running more boost than it "thinks" it is.
Still waiting to learn more about what-all the DInan Elite sends to the DME, but, from early reports, it helps get air/fuel mix optimized more smoothly and more quickly than just the basic single input boxes can.
So, you get more power with either the Elite or a single-input box, and you get more power still with these in concert with a real tune.
Clearly these engines can do 250+ hp without blowing up. Just depends on how much usable twist is available to the wheels at various points on the RPM band. And it depends on the driving experience one seeks. Some value smoothness, some want to feel more raw grunt, some want it all.
The underlying consideration is the notion that a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. So, clutch/auto tranny robustness, the other drivetrain components, including bushings, shocks, etc, the brakes, the tires... everything needs to play well together for the duration of ownership. A lot to ask.
The NM/Dinan/JB plug ins all have merit. I have been more than pleased with my Dinan Sport -- just enough extra oomph for my Clubman S All4. Probably would have done the Elite had it been available a year ago, just for smoothness and the promise of a bit more power between 2000 and 3,500 RPM.
My conclusion is the Dinan Elite is the best single bang for one's buck -- you get (and pay for) the warranty and more/smoother power than just the single-input boxes, and the installation is easy. But if you want different noise coming out of the exhaust, you don't get that with just a box.
But I think, for the way I drive most of the time, I'm satisfied with what I now have. Very satisfied. And all done for under $300, an hour of installation fun, and a couple of bloody knuckles, because machines always do want blood, in my experience.
I went with the JCW tune on my 15 MCS 6 months ago and love it. Had a NM module-too many problems for me (octane gas/high altitude). I agree if you are going to keep the car, mod the hell out of it. Our 2003 we kept for 10 years and got 5,000 for it. My wife bought and new coupe in 2013. We just got a letter from our dealer and they offered her 6,000 for her trade. Yea, right. They offered me 14,937 for my 2015 MCS (2.5 years old) that I paid 32,000 for it. 28,000miles with JCW int/ext, nav and all of the rest extras. Yea, right. I am wrapping it right now (new color) and just going to have more fun with it. $700 for the vinyl sure beats a 17,000 loss, plus I have the hidden glove box, side visor and all of the other good MINI stuff you can't get on a new one. Get the tune, it is worth it. They do go on sale-make your dealer an offer. Also check with MINI of Kennesaw parts. Unlike like my dealer that over charges on parts, they are usually under list and even with shipping there is no sales tax.
Folks, TY you all for the help and feedback.. Mini owners are so helpful, and willing to invest their time with other Mini folks. Been thinking serious about stacking the Dinan Elite with the already installed JCW tune and pipes.
Really stupid question: what's the difference between a factory JCW, and the "JCW tune?" Is it safe to assume they are mostly the same?
They're not quite the same. The factory JCW has a larger turbocharger, so it can make more power by pushing more air into the engine. There are other differences but that's the big one. This is why the JCW tune doesn't make as much power as the fJCW engine — the hardware isn't there.
But as others have noted, when you stack a JCW tune with a piggyback unit on a non-Jewish engine, you end up outperforming the fJCW with more torque down low and more total power up high.
Bratling,
Not offended (though some may be), i'm not even Jewish, just curious about the phrase "non-Jewish engine". Never heard that before. What does it mean?
"But as others have noted, when you stack a JCW tune with a piggyback unit on a non-Jewish engine, you end up outperforming the fJCW with more torque down low and more total power up high"
Bratling,
Not offended (though some may be), i'm not even Jewish, just curious about the phrase "non-Jewish engine". Never heard that before. What does it mean?
"But as others have noted, when you stack a JCW tune with a piggyback unit on a non-Jewish engine, you end up outperforming the fJCW with more torque down low and more total power up high"
It's probably an auto correct mistake - jcw = jewish? At least I hope that is what went on.
