I can test the vacuum with a CFM sensor. I can do this by placing the sensor in between the filter and the throttle body. I can monitor this flow rate at different RPMs and against the stock intake system.
If you need more info shoot me a PM I am extremely interested in getting to test this. Not to get a free intake, but to see the hard facts without a vendor(no offense) stating the gains.

I can also test the decibels with many different sound monitors that a budy of mine has. He is in the radio business and can test anything dealing with audio and decibels.

Thanks again, Chris.

 

As much as I'd like to get a free intake (my car is stock powerwise ATM although I have an Alta V1 15% pulley to install this month). I can't really do any actual testing beyond subjective items and maybe take it down the strip a few times later in the season.

Why not send one to MC2 to let them do some independent testing? It's a gamble as to whether or not it would be good or bad publicity but it shows confidence in your product.

If I find a dyno around here that has reasonable rates I'll ask for a free one to test with :D

 

I recently purchased an '05 MCS auto, it's stock with 28,000 miles on it, and I have been looking into CAI's since I bought it. A CAI is usually the first upgrade that people do with any vehicle. I think that a true test should be done vs the stock intake. I would run back to back test, stock vs CAI, with an accelerometer and dragstrip runs, 0-60, 1/8mile, 1/4mile. Record the sound levels inside the car and outside, plus some speed passes. Everyone will want to know what it sounds like. I would also do a back to back road test on some nice twisties to see the difference in throttle response.

 

Asthe owner of a 2005 JCW that is a daily driver. I would be interested in seeing how your CAI compared to the JCW intake on fuel mileage.

 

Sounds good... anyone else agree?

Anyone have any thoughts on how many decibels is optimal? Then the two intakes could be rated by their absolute value departure from the ideal.

None taken! Thats why I'm doing this. I would never accuse anyone of lying, but you will always get the sunny side up from someone who wants to sell something. I'd rather just get the facts out there, and see who's interested.

 

MC2 is a great publication, and I may send them one as well. I think what we have gathered so far is that we have NAM members who are more than capable of providing their community with the results. I'd like to think it is an equal if not greater risk, but I have the utmost confidence.

 

This seems like a more realistic test than a dyno for this type of mod. What is the margin of error? Should multiple runs be done? How many?

How did you want to measure response?

 

I am leaning towards comparison to stock since there aren't as many JCW cars out there. Fuel mileage of certainly of interest, no one has brought that up yet. It wouldn't be too difficult to get a good concept of the change in fuel milage, but again, there may be a high margin of error depending on how the test was done.

 

http://www.gtechpro.com/accuracy.html Here is a link to the Gtech Pro, the G-TECH Pro SS at the top one is the one I have. At the dragstrip, I would do 5 runs, drop the lowest and highest runs and average the 3 remaining runs. I would do 3 of these test at 30-40 degrees, 60-70 degrees and 90-100 degrees ambient temperature. Living in NC this is easy to do, one day it's 30 deg and the next it's 70 deg. That would be 15 stock runs and 15 CAI runs.

As for measuring the throttle response I don't have anything to measure that, it would be a seat of the pants measurement. Running the two intakes back to back and giving my opionion of the difference.

 

For fuel mileage you could do a few highway trips at different speed ie. 60, 70, 80mph. Filling up before getting on the highway and filling up as soon as you exit the highway. Manually figuring the mileage, don't use the Onboard Computer. You will get a more consistent reading with an automatic. For city driving make a map and follow the same course each trip at posted speed limits to get a more accurate reading.

 

I would be happy to preform all of these tests and any others that the members have suggested if you would happen to choose myself as the "beta" tester. Keep me updated on what you decide.
Thanks again,
Chris.

 

the way I would elvalueate an intake is 1st how it preforms, how your car sound, reacts to the mod, gas milage, ect. This to me is probably the most important because that's the main reason why I would put it on my car. 2nd is how it sounds, some people dont really like a loud intake but to me its always a plus. And last is how it looks under the bonnet. I think this is somewhat important because its never good to have something that doesnt look representable under the bonnet. Hope this works!

 

I'm going to try to recap what we've gathered so far on this thread, feel free to copy and add for a reply;

An intake should be evaluated on 2 main catagories with some sub-catagories;

1. Sound
A. Volume
i. Measure decibel levels inside cabin and at source
B. Tone
ii. Record sound at various RPMs

2. Performance
A. Air Flow
i. Record CFM sensor readings
B. Fuel Consumption
ii. Highway constant speed fuel consumption per mile test
C. Acceleration
iii. Accelerometer readings at drag strip
iv. Change in 0-60mph and 1/4 mile times


What have I left out that is important? Are all of these tests necessary, which are key?

 

#1. Acceleration or increase in horsepower.
#2. Ease of maintenance. How easy is it to remove and clean the filter.
#3. Fuel mileage
#4. Sound

These are just my opinions, but this is the order that I compare CAI's when looking to purchase.

 

It seems to me that everyone is focusing on the data and completely skipping the human element here. It's like looking at a Playboy and only focusing on the centerfold's measurements. Sure a 36DD red head with a 24" waist is great fun but if you don't read the interview you are missing out on the really important stuff. So it turns out that our centerfold is into ferrets, loves anchovies on peanut butter sandwiches and has a really annoyingly loud laugh. Doesn't sound like someone you want to eat breakfast with does it?

To me what makes a really great after market part is one that improves the performance while seamlessly blending with the car. Is it something that you like getting up and eating breakfast with?

It would need a full 4 seasons worth of evaluation. It's not that I don't appreciate decibel readings, accelerometer data and the like. It's that I'm more interested if the noise will **** me off when I'm driving home from a long day at work with a headache. Or will it help me unwind from the long workday with cool supercharger noises and better throttle response. How will it handle torrents of rain or a cowl vent clogged with snow? Will beach sand scratch the polycarbonate or will it just shine & make me smile?

More importantly: will it pass The Wife Test. Will my wife drive the car for more than 30 minutes without pointing something out that she doesn't like about it. To loud? To high pitched? Makes the throttle to jumpy?

Close to a year ago I installed some new pedals in my car. Only after they cleanly gripped summer rain doused sneakers & slick soled Pumas covered in snow have I decided that they were an excellent addition to the vehicle. Will the new Craven CAI stand up to the test of time? I'd love to have the chance tell everyone that it does.

 

Speak for yourself buddy! Just kick in the ole' smile & nod.

 

im going to go against the grain here, but thats just me...

imo, being that craven is in the business to provide a better product over company x, y, z, i think the bottom line is how much this product costs over company x's and how closely do they perform.

dyno wise, a cai isnt going to show you anything other than how restrictive the stock configuration is. every intake manufacturer does the same basic setup, conical filter in the stock airbox area. sure, the manufacturers have their niches... a sealed box, a silicone hose to the tb, or a flap here and there but for the most part, they are all the same and will perform the same. from the tb, what are the parameters that could change? intake tract length? choice of filter material? thermal properties of the piping going from said filter to tb?.... on a dyno, none of those added features are going to be operational anyway, not unless theres a 55mph fan in front of the car. if there were differences, they would be minimal +-5hp/10tq of each other(.05% of 150whp=?)... SAME PRINCIPAL, DIFFERENT METHODS=SAME RESULTS.

the sound is going to be a byproduct of opening the intake tract. ever look inside the stock piping? those baffles and ridges arent there for looks, they were added to quiet down the intake of the car. the supercharger whine is going to be there if you ran your typical run of the mill intake, an open intake(think hai), or routed the intake clear across the side of the car(well maybe not that one). but the end result is the whine is going to be there either way, so for sound, i believe your results are going to be the same, assuming everything is the same after the tb(think stock car)...fwiw, the altas cai is the supposed loudest of the cai family but due to the foam filter material rather than a cotton mesh.

mpg is going to be a moot point too. with every single performance mod i have ever done, i have yet to do see a mod that increases mpg. and even if there were, any gains were x'cld because of need to "test" aka hammer the ***** out of the car to find the gains with the butt dyno. and with the drastic differences in weather, altitude, alignment of the stars, mpg differences between 2 cars is always going to be inconsistent. not enough to make a sales pitch over...

SO,...

how would you test it?

sure, a dyno would be nice. baseline on a stock car vs our new intake. again, that will show you how much the stock intake restricts...you would literally spend an hour on 2 runs because you would want a cold, unsoaked ic run(for stock and intake) to show the real deltas. and then for marketing sakes, find another cai'd car or swap the intakes on the original car to reflect same day testing, 2 different intakes vs the stock config. this would be your best bet...

OR

you could take company "x" equipped car vs company "y" equipped car to the dragstrip and see who could battle it out. but then the company naysayers will always say the drivers were different etc etc. again, issues with scheduling that out or just getting 2 people at the same place and same time would be hard enough..but another question arises, how much fluff is there in 5whp? one would think there would be a bigger difference in 2 runs based on driver experience than there would to show hp increase of a cai.

OR

customer testimonial, this is becoming more and more common with all the tuners. not mentioning names but there has been alot of heavy product development done this way. the m62, the dfic's, hell, alot of parts are put out on the market this way with out any tuner hard data. would work but again, the naysayers will call you out for deltas..

BOTTOM LINE...

without reinventing the wheel, most would agree that the intakes are going to generally perform the same and look the same... but where i would change it up is in cost and customer service. if you want to really open peoples eyes, sell an intake and a pulley and come in 50 bux cheaper than the next guy. that will say more than the neglible +-1/2 hp differences in cai's...

MY ANSWER

best way to promote the cai, continue this thread(which is great marketing btw), get some dyno numbers, and do the pulley deal. =) good luck

 

I think it actually would be possible to measure throttle response. What you'd have to do is have something to record the voltage at the Throttle Position Sensor, and compare it with readings from an accelerometer showing G-Force after you press the gas. I don't know if the Scangauge II has the TPS reading available. The best way to sinc the two (cheaply at least) would be to videotape the readouts of both displays at the same time. When you push the accelerator you'll see the voltage rise at the TPS, compare this to how G-Forces increase on the accelerometer and you'll have factual numbers depicting throttle response.
Can I get a free intake for just having ideas? I figure it doesn't hurt to ask. I do have a very good digital video camera that records sound in stereo that would do a good job accurately showing how the intake sounds under different circumstances and from different locations (ie windows down vs. up, from inside and outside the car, while cruising, full throttle acceleration, etc.) :D

 

Yeah, but for how long can you just smile & nod?

 

This is a neat marketing trick. But, assuming there are other skeptics out there like myself, there are other questions that need to be answered with regards to these CAIs.

Personally, I love the idea of more power (don't we all). But I believe in the balance of life (i.e. you don't get something for nothing). LOL.

Now, some of us have money to burn, and will toss whatever on our 25K plus cars. I will do various upgrades, but only if I know they will not jeaprodize my investment. I've personally heard all kinds of "stuff" about CAIs, from "they are great and don't bother anything" to "if you use something like this, it HAS to suck in more dirt, larger particles then a stock filter, and it's going to impact engine life and long term performance". That's where I get nervous.

Companies like K&N offer a "million mile warranty". Yipee, on their $200 filter. What about my $8,000 engine? No one "guarantees" that putting one of these things on my car isn't going to reduce my engine life. And even if they did, where its the imperical data.

What would get me to make a purchase of one of these, is imperical data showing the amount and size of particles filtered for one of these CAIs vs. the stock filter. If it can be shown that a good quality CAI such as this filters on par or better then a stock filter, I would purchase one.

From a performance standpoint, I too am not interested in merely changing the power curve. Where I'm most interested in gaining power is in the low to mid range rpms. Unlike some, I do not go out and wind my engine out to max RPM in normal daily driving (OK, I do sometimes, it's just so much fun with the supercharger), but I would love to have more "grunt" off the line and in the mid range where the car spends most of its time.

Unfortunately, I do not have the means of doing these tests to a satisfactory standard, but if those of you "competing" for a filter do, I would be very interested in the results.

On Sound, sound is good up to the point that the wife complains or I can't hear my tunes above the middle setting on my stereo. ;-)

Sincerely submitted,
Lee

 

until i die of starvation

 

This is a very nice looking product. Would you like a Canadian mule ('03 MCS with ALTA CAI, 17% pulley, ALTA exhaust and LuckyDog Dyno Tune)? With my ScanGauge II and a temp sensor in the air box, I would give you winter, spring, summer and fall temperature differentials between ambient, IAT's and CAI air box temps, as well as any MPG/Fuel Economy differential between yours and the competition's filter. Pick me, pick me!!

 

just a question could you get better numbers if you took off the top? i think the more air that is accessible the better. or maybe i missed something before?

 

They call me...


Bobblehead

 

Ya see, I just can't do that…

If something annoys me I cant ignore it or pretend it's not there.

I guess that's why I feel like the testing of this intake requires a long term usability analysis. Because if it's not something I can live with on a day to day basis it's not worth it.

To me it's not how many decibels it puts out but rather what the noise is. If it sounds like a super charger sucking in mad amounts of air it's worth it. If it sounds like whale farts, not worth it. Even if they are quieter than stock.