Oh dear Don, I think you've left yourself wide open on that last sentance

 

Yeah, I had no clue there were places to raise sheep in NJ!

Sorry Don, that was just tooooo easy. And thanks for all the info and those rear strut spacers you made me a deal on last fall! "You don't have to be nice, as long as your right" LOL

Tim

 

...where the men are men and the sheep are afraid

 

i understand this post isnt about whom but rather what, and i also realize that you have a large pool of knowledge about how modifications affect engines. However, by "vague" i mean you should go ahead and say something about which CAI's suck in hot air, or which intercoolers are less efficient than stock, etc. or else your post does no good for us. Its like saying some companies make parts that work and some don't. its not much help.

 

There are those that did/do believe that you can just shop off websites and add up HP and come up with a build. For them this is usefull. If you already know that and still slap this and that together with no plan, there's no help fo you anyway. If you've learned the hard way, you'll fully understand the intent of threads like this, and won't have a problem with it because you realize that it could have helped you in the past.

FWIW, vendors crapping on other vendors parts tend to get sucked into never ending flame wars between camps of devotees, independant of any data, so there's little upside.

If you look around at some of the data postings, you can find out a lot of what you're asking for. If it's not there, you can always get the parts and test them yourself and post the answers!

Matt

 

Essentially what you're asking him to do is get what he does for a living for free on a forum message board. That's just not realistic, nor is it in his best interest to put down a certain manufacturer's offering. It's simply not worth the headache, as has been mentioned previously. He's giving sage advice, which would have saved many people here headaches and money--if you're going the aftermarket route, find a good tuner first, not down the road when your engine bay looks like a second erector set.

I have been through this thread, and I think it is very helpful. I went the JCW route, and while its not the most cost effective, with regard to where I live--with the warranty in mind--it was the most practical. Down the road, when the warranty is up, I may want to do some more with it--and the advice given here is well taken. I just wish I was on the east coast, so that I had Don and Luckydog as options....

 

i'm confused by what you mean here...

I guess my question is this. To the OP, do you mean to say that, when tuning a vehicle, we should try to purchase mods from the same company as to not "mix and match" mods from different companies so we make sure everything purchased will work in unison with one another?

I believe thats what you mean, correct me if i'm wrong though. I see the logic in it, but sounds sort of like wishful thinking to me. I doubt anyone, myself included, will attempt to purchase every future engine mod from a single company in hopes that they all work together harmoniously.

Let me know if i'm completely off base. and i also want to add that i mean none of this in sarcasim or with a bad attitude. merely trying to generate discussion.

 

So as not to ask one vendor to publicly put down another (not good form, at best), if you'd like to get some insight into the point of this thread, I'd suggest you call Don at DMH or John at LDG.

Both offer down-to-earth insight, with none of the hype we've heard plenty of.

I offer this suggestion, having been down the road and a bit off track from where I could be, had I known what I do now.

 

Hot air..

 

I have written about this several times..... if you are looking for minimal mods...intake, cat-back, pulley.... mix and match is fine..... when you go to a head in particular the stew gets pretty thick....... geting an intake path and an exhaust path to compliment the head/ cam combo and then to tune it is far from easy...... I started doing this about three years ago and spent more than I needed to for the results. Don and Luckydog could have saved me money and gotten me the results I was looking for with a lot less integration problems. Things that many take for granted today were because guys like me spent $ "beta testing". DMH and Luckydog are not the only tuners who can do a good job but they do have the respect of many on this board. They believe in a comprehensive approach as do I. Mixing and matching heads and headers etc without a solid knowledge of how they will interact and some idea of what the tune will look like is just not efficient..... efficient = less $ per whp.

 

You are on the right track. Certain tuners have products that do work with with their other products and are designed with that in mind. I to have been down the road of mix and match type modding and have seen the light in working with one tuner that has vision. The trick is to find those few tuners that truly understand how to obtain the power desired in a what might be likened to as a holistic approach.

Yeah, I want to say XYZ's parts taken as whole either suck or work great, but due to the nature of NAM it's not worth the effort.

I might be new to Mini's but I am not new to modding cars, I've been working with tuners since the orginal GTI that Autotech made a real monster. I've made some fault starts with the Mini and now I see the light.

 

I went for the JCW baseline route... then the extras I just researched it. Probably not the most cost effective approach, but most tuners will attempt to make things work with the JCW pkg...

 

What I was trying to say is that some products just aren't that good, and won't work well with anything. Others are just fine, and will work great mixed with another manufacturers product. But the flip side is you can also buy two very good products from different manufacturers (or even the same manufacturer), but they might not be desigined to integrate well with each other--and thats where a tuner can get you headed in the right direction, and this is where you can save yourself money by getting it right the first time. I've seen too much dissapointment on these forums for me to rush right out and put something aftermarket on my engine with the promise of this much more HP or that much more torque without talking to a legitimate tuner first. It's why I went the JCW route, and although its not the cheapest way to go, it was the easiest, and it leaves aftermarket options down the road...

Personally, I guess I'm a bit on the paranoid side, and I recognize my limitations with regard to engine mods, and thats why if I was going aftermarket, which I probably eventually will some day, I'd talk to a tuner first before going down the yellow brick road, rather than chase a bunch of numbers by installing stuff that SHOULD work, only to find out later that it actually sucks power instead of increasing it.

 

JCW, Dinan and working with a trusted, experienced tuner are for people like you and me (the paranoid). No doubt the latter can get the most out of _your_ car whereas Dinan and JCW are more of a "one size fits all" application.

mb

 

Dinan and JCW are a worked out system that from all reports and experience work very well... they just don't produce that much power and are not a "bang for the buck" favorite..... fwiw, I happen to be a fan of the JCW cars

 

Yea, you want bang for the buck, you don't want Dinan or JCW. But I guess this whole thread raises the question as to whether or not there really is any bang for the minimal bucks some of the products are requiring. It also raises the question as to what bang really is and how to get it. No, bang really isn't cocaine in this case. hahaah.

mb

 

I must admit that some of Don's replies (in this thread and others) have taken me somewhat aback with their abruptness. But then I think back on all of the folks I have dealt with in my 50 years, and it's folks like Don who tell it like it is. No BS, no sugar coating. If you bother to look past the sharp edges, there is almost always something there worth listening to.
I'm on a very limited mod budget, since the wifey resents any $$$ spent on cars, but should a miracle happen and I get to go nutz, then someone like Don is who I will seek out. Knowledge, experience and wisdom don't come cheap or easy.
ps: I understood your point from the beginning and don't expect or want names named. If I need that info, I will pay you for it.

<end of sermon>

 

I agree with you on that (Dinan wasn't an option for me--no dealer close enough); I went the relatively more expensive, but relatively safe route. You can certainly get more power aftermarket and cheaper as well, but IMHO you really need someone who knows what they're doing.

That being said, I love what the JCW has done to my car (One of the major plusses is its so smooth, it feels like it belonged there in the first place), and I'd do it again in a heartbeat, even for the relatively insane price! I might do more once the warranty is gone, but (and I hate to admit this, but in the spirit of honesty) I don't feel I have gotten to the point to where I drive the car as well as it can be driven with what I've got now. But with practice/driving schools/autocross I'm hoping that feeling will change....

 

FWIW... probably the only thing that will have me part with SpiderX is if in fact they do produce a 250 - 265 hp JCW kit in 08

I have also heard that BMW is going to bring a series one with a twin turbo..... RWD and a boat load of power....

 

Purchased my MTH header and MTH tuner files from you..

 

Why do I get the impression that some folks want to make this into a brand X parts don't work well with brand Y?

It’s not about synergy of brands, and that one companies parts only work with THEIR stuff.

An example that's rather straightforward would be a stainless steel 15% reduction taper-bore pulley. As long as its manufactured to proper tolerances, finishes, concentricity etc. then from one to the next there will be little functional difference. As with most products some manufacturers pay more attention to detail, and engineer a product which may be easier to install, or remove or what-have-you... but in the end they're all SS 15% pulleys.

Its not about JCW, Dinan, Alta, M7, Webb or whatever... at least not at the 15% pulley level... they are ALL pretty much interchangeable & plug n play with others parts... its when you go beyond the pulley.

Now... if you combine a 19% SS taper-bore reduction pulley with a 2% crank pulley... well there are some folks that don't think that's a good idea.

Not cars, but related (moving air) is home heating, ventilation & air conditioning. There's lots to know in order to make sure that you're able to heat and cool your home (as case may be). Folks don't really argue about the fact that they have to pay for the expertise of trained 'professionals' to do things right. Yet, when it comes to moving air in and out of folks engines they figure they don't need to think in similar terms.

The HVAC analogy works on a number of levels too... For instance: with a furnace you can't pump more air into a room which doesn't have an air return (exhaust)... without one it'd be like trying to blow up the room like a balloon - not gonna happen... no air flow. OR if you were to size the air return too small the room won't get much air flow. ...Now consider your engine... You put on a CAI, ostensibly to draw more air into the engine... But what provision have you made to allow that additional air to exit? If your CAI fucntions better than OE, then you've increased potential intake air quality &/or supply... but this is one half of the equation... Each and every breathing change you perform needs to be considered in the context of the wholistic system.

One of the reasons cat back's are so popular as a first mod (aside from sound) is because quite often the engine can benefit from an exhaust which flows more freely than OEM (providing it actually does). So... you haven't improved the intake side, but you still see an increase. Ad an intake, and you might see more. Add a pulley with the intake & cat back, and you're likely to see further benefit. That some intakes or catbacks function "better" or when paired correctly work more synergistically is only logical. That's where well designed products, plus folks like Don (with experience) can provide insight & direction... but as has been said already - it aint free.

Hopefully this puts a stop to the thinking of Brand X parts don't play with brand Y. While in instances this will be factually true, its NOT the brand... its the design of the parts! Any suggestion to the contrary is confusion or over-simplification.

 

I shouldn't put a furnace on my MCS?

I'm thinking it's less about specific manufacturer, but let's be honest, there's a lot of hype in claims for many aftermarket parts. So even if you stay within manufacturer, you may get a part that doesn't really help, or makes things worse!

Look at really large bore TBs.... For a lot of us, they provided no power, just drivability issues.

Matt

 

Yup! Precisely.