It's not always a case of a bad product but more of a bad combination of products that yeild less than stellar results.
I'm curious about the Samco intake hoses, does anyone have back to back dyno comparisons of these hoses vs. a stock hose, vs. a metal one? I'm sure it's only a half a horsepower difference if at all, statistically insignificant, but I'd still like to see if there's any testing that's been done.

 

one of two ways.

1)They get starrie-eyed on vendor claims, buy parts, bolt them on, and wonder why they get smoked by someone with a lesser car and build budget.... This leads them to listen to the advice they'd gotten before and hadn't listened to, and then they partner with a tuner, and do a synergistic build, and sell off lots of stuff in the marketplace.

2) They listen to the advice of others, select a good tuner to work with, and build a car with more discretion, learn a lot on the way, don't get smoked by the lesser car, and save a bunch of money.

What way to you want to learn? In general, most that are new to the game get in trouble by taking advice from too many sources. This is just like getting your investment advice from a random group of investment counsillors. You won't get the best return.

Just something to think about.....

Matt

ps, FWIW, the paper filter in the JCW tested better than the Madness replacement. Something to think about....

 

NAM - Feel the love.

 

Don, I guess he won't be calling you soon for parts!

But really, I don't think you'll find any tuners that are willing to write "this companies crap sucks" or "this part is a waste of time" in an on-line forum. IT's just too much hassle to be worth the effort. It starts a sh*tstorm of "I got one and love it!" etcetera. Also, if anyone really wants the benefit of the experince of a good tuner, do you really expect them to give away all thier knowledge for free? Only guys like me who don't do it for a living will do that!

So, even if Don's style isn't one your compatible with, there IS content in his post, and things to think about in it. Even if you go elsewhere for your build and parts.

Matt

 

also the best you can do is redirect yourself to MY initial post saying put some names out there if you have these accusations of poorly made products ...dont just point fingers saying bad this bad that

 

Well with if he is a rep. of a company believe that i would never give them my business, i was not even attacking him in my first post i was just saying dont point fingers without explaining yourself further into the matter ( i.e. give some proof not just hearsay )

 

Here's a nice little site guidelines reminder.

 

You can ignore his warning and do what you were going to do anyway.

You can take his warning to heart and think about it as you do what you're going to do.

You can spend a bunch of time debating whether Don is a pr*ck or not, but that won't make your car any faster.

But don't expect someone with experience that's worth $ (that's what he sells his customers) to give it away for free!

I consult for the Semi industry. I'll tell people for free how I think I can help them. If they want details, they have to give me a PO. How is this different?

I do a lot of parts testing (just for the hell of it). I find stuff from some vendors that works well, and some that doesn't work so well. Most of the vendors I get along with well. But that said, I post data, but I don't really make reccomendations unless I talk to people in person. There are a lot of reasons. Almost every piece of advice given publicly is sure to be quoted out of context. Almost every automotive question has a "use case" specific answer too.

Sorry you think you're being cheated here. I don't see it that way. Take the warning or not.

But read the initial post.
Don doesn't like HAIs or most CAIs. (that's pretty much all vendors)
Don doesn't like (all?) of the aftermarket ICs (that's pretty much all vendors)
Don doesn't like huge injectors on lightely modded cars, nor small ones on heavily modded cars
Don doesn't like crappy head work
Don doesn't like cheap headers
Don doesn't agree with those that put a reduciton pulley and an oversized crank pulley on the car. (there are lots that sell this combination)

Seems pretty simple to me. Want more details? Become a customer.


Matt

 

A few things....

1) if you know how far you want to go from the beginning... (few of us do..this is an insidious hobby..... the addiction keeps getting worse) then all of this is easy... you align with a tuner and he takes you from stock to end result.

more likely... you buy your car and start with an intake.... sounds cool and you think you have more power... what else.... how about a cat-back.... easy enough and it sounds cool and seems like it adds some power..... then maybe a pulley.... adds some power for sure.....

after that... then what... a header, head, TB, IC etc.... large valve heads vs this or that... then you need to "tune it" and that sucks....

you wake up one day chasing performance that others claim but can't verify....

That's where youu find someone to straighten things out and you wish you had found them in the beginning.....

Three years ago there were few choices.

My suggestion as always... find a car/tuner that you seem to resonate with....drive a car that he built, or at least go for a ride... keep your budget in mind and don't drive the ***** out car for comparison, if it is not what you want for your car.... if he can't provide you with that opportunity... move on. You may say, it is expensive to travel to see a car to which I say BS.... the cost of straightening out something you don't like or are disappointed with is MUCH higher.....

personally... I think the Mini at 200whp is very balanced and fun to drive.... after that is when people start getting frustrated or have problems.... let me say it this way if you want more.... either know how to fix things and be able to do you own work, have deep pockets or you best friend is a Mini tuner...... this is just my opinion.....

 

Nicely Summed up Matt

 

I do MTH/MTH & custom/custom. I most likely see more cars for tuning via the MTH route than anyone else in America.

I started this thread to highlight some of the issues I see as a Mini tuner and to pass that information on to those who are looking to make a performance modification.
Why? Because it is difficult to tune cars with parts that do not work/work together. For instance, earlier this week I was attempting to tune a car with a head with too much compression that made the car ping. The customer was getting upset with me saying this head is from X and they make great heads -- so get it to work. Trouble is I couldn’t because the part was no good.

How you can argue with any of this is far beyond my capacity. But yes, I am direct and honest.

 

I feel for you. I get the unabridged versions of some of these stories through a mutual acquaintance and they have the same sort of things happening.

My best piece of advice is to keep educating them, even if they don't feel like listening. Hopefully people start listening once they start seeing things for themselves.

 

Don, can MTH move the rev limiter to 8000+ yet?

Defintley helps when you find that combo, I'm still looking and will probably spend the rest of my life looking for more power than I had the day before

 

DMH - would you do a half-*** tune on a car that didn't have a complete stahl exhaust or Wegner head just to prove a point?

 

No kidding...it's like Auto-S&M

 

while I like dons posting tones as much as the next over sensative nam member, he always raises points that are necessary to think about. in addition he is in the business of making money, not pissing people off despite what some of us may think.

regardless, mini's are most likley a small part of dons bag of tricks. imo we are fortunate to have his rhetorical questions on our forums.

 

I realize you are kidding but the answer is no, I would not.

 

Agreed, but don't say it out loud. It'll only increase his sunny, friendly disposition.

Good to hear!

EDIT: to make this post worthwhile (if it's salvageable) – the thing I've been thinking this whole time is that a lot of the examples in the first post are more just "bad parts" than not being complementary. A head that puddles, or a header that doesn't sit flush, aren't quality parts regardless of your end goals.

But the moral I guess is to pay attention to what you're doing and not to throw on parts *****-nilly. *shrug* As several people have since said.

 

This thread is fun; let's keep it going. I'm surprised the zealots haven't shown up to defend Don's non-attack on their buying habits.

Don - most of your customers are not participants in this board; do they ALL use the wegner, stahl, mth combo? Or is that just the combo you witness and test for the best results?

mb

 

Very few of my customers are participants on this board. This is my first forum participation – can you tell? I'm using this to try and grow our Mini business but I realize it will never rival our Porsche business. I like the Mini, however.
Anyway, there are currently only two parts that I developed and sell: Wegner's head and Stahl's exhaust. And since they are new within the last few months they are not on all that many cars -- about a ten each. As the track season approaches I expect to sell more. I wouldn't have spent the time, money, and effort to bring them to the Mini market if I thought they weren't the way to go if you wanted to go fast.
Want to really make it go fast? Custom tuning will be required. And if you can, Lucky Dog Garage is the place to go. But if you can't, MTH/custom is a very good option.

 

Is it fair to say that LDG's custom tune might be good enough to incorporate parts that don't jive with each other? In other words, for people who understood your first post, is there hope for their engine setups?

mb

 

I am here to defend X. I have met X. I have known X since second grade math class... X marks the spot. I call on all X supporters to defend X's honor and renounce this unprovoked attack on his good letter.

 

You can ask them directly in their forum as it is not my place to speak for them. However, I wouldn't get your hopes up.

 

Very good!

 

lol