I am interested in learning more about the performance gains from installing the Cosworth modified head and camshaft. Anyone have personal experience with this 'Mod"?

Thanks,
DJDport66

 

I have came to believe the best aftermarket heads available for the MCS are the Thumper performance head and the Fireballed Head with the Fireballed ECU.

 

What are the criteria that lead you to that conclusion?

 

that you will never get the best head for your car buying a canned head without carrying out a detailed discussion of what you want out of a head! Here's an example (from another car, but WTF).

Lots of people loved the ford 351 Cleveland with the four barrel heads. Bragging rights. The exhaust ports are SO BIG that the car really is hurt at lower RPMs. So much so that someone came out with something called a Torque Plate that went between the header and the head, and filled most of the exhaust port. IF you were to flow test the four barrel head against the two barrel head, you'd find the four barrel flowed a lot more. But it wasn't a good head for daily driving (real bitchen for a race motor that lives at high RPM though).

How the head is changed and the characteristics of the cam will do more to alter the personality of an engine than anything else. Make sure that you alter it to the personality that you want!

That said, I'm sure both of those vendors will deliver something to you with good improvements. ARe they the best fit for you? Don't know. Is there a range of modifications or porting that is offered (say street vs race, or tailered for one red-line or another) or do you have to take the "standard" head? This is all complicated by the fact that it's nearly impossible for anyone but a race team or an auto manufacturer to really test two heads for relative benefit (to do it right, an engine dyno and head specific tunes would be needed at a minimum).

So once again, this is an area where a relationship with the vendor is better than just ordering a part number.

FWIW....

Matt

 

Yeah, what he said. /|\

 

the manufacturers are not idiots . they built the s with a goal in mind . for those wishing to get some more but still be driveable they put out the jcw . so if you want a daily with probably more torque the jcw head would be a good one to copy . i'm going with abacus for affordability . and they get some good reviews here on nam . you start going really big valves and cross section you get what the dr. said ; a sacrifice . i'll take driveability .

 

have you ever seen a jcw head next to an "s" head? it would take a magnifiying glass to see the difference. if significant performance gains (however you want to measue) are what you are looking for, "upgrading" to the jcw makes no sense.

 

In the context of cylinder heads, what does "affordability" denote?

 

I bet most people really don't want an head with the highest flow numbers nor the largest peak HP at red-line. It may not make sense to some..... but that's really the way it is!

Matt

 

So...any specific responses to the Cosworth head? I think the cam M7 sells in place of a Cosworth cam is a Schrick...

 

Cosworth is just finishing up the cam for the Mini as we speak. It should be out within the next few weeks . Next on their list is pistons or a new intake . I have no other details at this time but stay tuned

Randy
M7 Tuning

 

I keep watching to find out but I'm not seeing anything yet

You can search there was an F1 driver that drove a cosworth package car. Really peaked my intrest significantly.

 

LOL you crack me up man... so I want to make this point... not directly to you persay... just that you made me think of it...

The People "I want a power adder!"

Vendor "it's 2k"

The People " ok but I dont' want it to add too much power"

LOL I don't think that's how it goes... and the reality with the mini head is even with the highest of flow #s we haven't lost anything down low... maybe it's cause of technology... ok well not maybe but it is.... however, that old mantality from the early muscle car days of loosing low end for big porting needs to go!... LOL things have changed... and come to think of it.. 4 bangers and import tuning has never been done by thinking muscle car...

oh and I know it's hard to belive... but the MINI is not a TQy muscle car... LOL but amazinly does make good TQ... heck I know this better than anyone...


HEY LUCKY POST NUMBER!!! OW OW!

 

quote" LOL I don't think that's how it goes... and the reality with the mini head is even with the highest of flow #s we haven't lost anything down low... maybe it's cause of technology... ok well not maybe but it is.... however, that old mantality from the early muscle car days of loosing low end for big porting needs to go!... LOL things have changed... and come to think of it.. 4 bangers and import tuning has never been done by thinking muscle car...
Its all about high cylinder fill at certain rpm's depending on your application . With forced induction engines we don't have to try to trick the charge into the engine with big overlap cams and headers and fancy port jobs.The supercharger does it for us.

 

This is interesting.... I've seen what overporting can do on other motors, and forced induction, V8 or whatever has little to do with it. It has to do with gas velocity and the like. But WTF, I'm sure others have seen more Mini heads than I have.
It's just that every time I hear "The Mini is different" it turns out that it's just the pack climbing the learning curve, and it's more like other engines and we keep forgetting that.

Matt

 

Ha ha... it's not just the mini that different... it's the whole import tuning thing.... with the development over the last 15 years with putting HUGE turbos on little motors etc etc... things have come a long long way... heck you think if someone told you back in the 90s that a supra was going to make 2000 WHP that anyone would have belived you...LOL

you shoulda Dominicminicoopers face when we first met and I told him when I got my mini I would take her to 400+ WHP... he just thought I was some dumb kid... (and that maybe true but whatever)

 

Thanks dmh,

Guys, this is a great discussion, keep it going. Let me be more specific with what I am looking for with a modified head and cam. I am a weekend Mini Driver/Racer in SM class. Drivability is not a huge issue with me because the Cooper is not my Monday-Friday ride. But on the track, I recently got my butt handed to me by cars with more horsepower on the straights. My goal is to get the car to “breath” and add torque coming off an apex on to a straight. Other than this the car is fabulous on the curves. I have spent the last year tweaking the suspension to where it’s very much inline with my driving abilities.

I have a ’02 Cooper S (42K miles) with the typical bolt-on performance parts; 15% Pulley, Mini-Madness intake, cat-back exhaust and Conforti performance chip…I have not had the car on the dyno so I really don’t know what I am producing at the wheels. But I do know it’s barely enough to keep up with the cars in my class. At this point I think the only real option to getting more power out of the car is with headwork and a complementary header(?).

 

That, and I'd ditch the Shark Injector. Had one. It was ok, but no real performance advantage as you are seeking.

Any number of ECU programs, flashes would be superior.

 

it means abacus isnt in it to skin me just cause its a cooper bloody s . its just another head to them and they can get some torque out of it and some horsepower without going radical . and my wallet will still have some money in it . just look at a small block chevy or ford . one good head including valve train could run upwards of 600.00 and be good performer . so whats up? our heads made of gold ?or does the market say its okay to rape us?

 

so 2000 x 2 heads for the v8 guys would be 4000 . unless youre drag racing that # seems way steep . so a good set of heads say tops 2000 just to be generous . but 1500 more like it . divided by 2 = drum roll .... 750.00 !!!! its gotta be the gold valves .

 

yes and no. The Mini doesn't have the same volume of sales as Chevy 350 or Ford 5.0s, so that's part of it. Another part is that it's an overhead cam head, and that's a little more. I think another part is that a lot of buyers of Minis haven't done the mod path before. And part of it is that the Mini is bumping up into BMW/European pricing. And roll that all together and you have the potential for making some serious $, pricing just a bit below the market for Mini parts.

Those of us that have worked on an older muscle car gag and "throw up a little bit in our mouths" when we see some of the pricing on aftermarket Mini parts.

I think a lot of the heads offered to us earlier were also not from the porting company, but a Mini tuner that worked with a head shop. (After I typed that, I had a vision of a bunch of bongs!) This resulted in some margin (read profit) stacking, so that everyone in the supply line could get theirs. Now, there are more opportunities to buy direct from those that do the porting etc. and prices are dropping, or you're getting more for the same $.

Now Tuls, I know that the Tritec isn't a 351C. My point was that head work isn't one sized fits all. Haven't you guys a Fireballed had heads that got more benefit at the low end than the high or vice versa depending on how you port the head? If the answer to that is no, you guys are the very first engine tuners doing head mods that have ever claimed that you can do no harm from porting, and that there is one porting job that will meet the need of all engines applications. Iknow things are different than in 1968 or so when the 351C started widespread use, but things haven't changed THAT much!

Matt

 

jees that head shop thing brought back memories. i too do gag on these gouges . yes its a boutique market weve got but damb!! flow is flow i would think . and s/c ing has been around a while ....

 

Are you implying that you are purchasing from abacus because someone who quoted you a price was trying to skin/rape you? Are you comparing the same components? If not, what were the criteria that you used to decide that the abacus head was the superior choice? Is affordability solely based on price, i.e., performance doesn’t matter. Or if it based on price to performance what other cylinder heads did you compare the abacus to? And how did you make your comparison. Keep in mind when comparing to 2-valve V-8 heads that the MCS also has 16 valves.

 

Carl Wegner and I are with the Dr is right on this. The shape, size, and texture of the port affect the power output. That is why there is no one-size-fits-all in cylinder head porting and valve train selection.

 

whether it's really nice wine, art or speed parts, living on the performance edge requires an budget where the amount needed to spend per amount of improvemnt grows rapidly... Ripple is a couple bucks a litre (gallon?), decent table wine $5-$15 a bootle, and the best is thousands. The first HP is cheap, the last is very expensive, just the same as the wine. And that's if you do it right.

The best race head will be very, very pricey when all said and done. But for most out there, a less expensive head will give good benefit without busting the budget....

I guess the art is all about specing each one right so there are no bottle necks and all work at good efficiency.... It's pretty hard to do well.

Matt