I have heard several MINI tuners discuss the advantages of the current Tritec engine over the R56 with regard to aftermarket performance modifications. I just read this on Motoring File.

Word is that the folks in Munich have been struggling to get the power and reliability out of the new 1.6L Turbo. With the old iron block supercharged Tritec mill, a simple reduction pulley, higher performance supercharger and inter-cooler made it relatively easy to turn up the wick and get 40-45 more bhp. However with the ultra high-tech Turbo engine in the R56 already well optimized for performance, the answer isn’t as easy. Because of this, MINI may be going old-school. Reportedly one solution currently on the table is to bore the 1.6L out to a 1.8L and increase power the old-fashion way - with a larger engine. Keep in mind though, nothing has been finalized yet so consider this simply one potential option at this point.

 

I cant imagine a DOHC turbo motor being harder to push power than a SOHC supercharged motor?

 

while it is "just a turbo" motor, it also has varaible valve timing, and direct injection. All these things are a lot more closely coupled on the car so that changing one thing needs tweaks in the rest. It won't be impossible, it will just be harder....

Matt

 

to tune? or just make power? It seems in terms of creating power the new motors would be easier. to make them run right after is the hard part. Am I right?

 

But the fast is it's just a more complex package of technologies. It will be harder to change the various bits due to both newness and complexity..... To find out what reallyworks, we'll all just have to see what the ECU hackers come up with...

Matt

 

A bigger turbo, bigger inter-cooler, mod the ECU, exhaust header and bore block out to 1.8 or 2 liters should do it.

 

Or buy an already modded 2005-2006 for a lot less $$$

 

Maybe harder, but more potential. "less mod friendly"? Depends on your POV.

 

There goes the low end torque of the dual scroll. But bigger numbers up top for sure! The key is "mod the ECU". Remember how long it took to get cracked ECU code out of the last one? This is where the pain will be.....

Matt

 

Maybe the internals cannot handle the extra power?

Does anyone know if the internals of an S engine are the same as a non-S engine?

I know this was not the case for the R53.

 

That's it in a nutshell. A complete matched package for the consumer.

And when it all shakes out it will be the software.......

 

This has been repeatedy said on MINI2. The have to hack the ECU. Until that happens, dont hold your breath. Even Roland admitted that and superchips is supposed to be working on it ... for the last few months but NADA so far.

 

the internals should be stock strong in the new cooper s. They have to be..

 

Yeah, exactly. But do the accountants know that?

 

The engine block on the current one is stronger.

 

By what evidence?

Not to say you are wrong, but just to prove the point of hearsay I heard that the new block is an all aluminum setup, instead of the cast iron (so I heard) our Mini's are.

 

I wouldn't put too much stock in secondhand evidence. It will take time to crack the ECU and for the early testers to press the limits of the block.

Direct injection and DOHC setups are hardly an impediment to tuners - just witness the large power gains from only a chip/reflash that Mazdaspeed and New GTI owners are getting. Even if the new block is weaker, it is also a question how much weaker. Max of 250 hp before stronger internals? 300hp?

Too early for the sky is falling stuff.

 

...(and by that I mean whatever MINI comes up with in the way of a higher performance version of the '07) would be easier for MINI to sell more of if aftermarket improvements are generally more difficult/costly for individuals to develop and buy. This situation should position MINI to capture more of the dollars and pounds currently being spent by modders on 02-06.

Seems to me, anyway.

On the other hand, if you think about it, the JCW sort of "led the way" for the aftermarket on the 02-06 also. The most common and successful increases on the r53 in the aftermarket have been similar to the upgrades that made a JCW a JCW (other that the nameplates, of course). Maybe the higher horse '07 MINI -- whatever it turns out to be -- will provide the "inspirations" for the aftermarketeers again?

 

the typical way tuners make power on most modern turbocharged engines is to turn up the wick....BOOST. This can be done with mods to the tables in the ECU programming, a manual boost controller, changing out the downpipe to a more efficient design or any number of methods. The most reliable way is to do it through the ECU and DP, but visually, the DP looks efficient.

Does anyone have any specific info about the Mitsu turbo? Wastegate spring pressure, chra, boost map, etc? Just like with a supercharger, there's an efficient range and once you turn up boost past this point, you gain no power and just heatsoak the motor.

Since the R56 has direct injection, a twinscroll and FMIC stock, the parts are all there to make power from ECU tuning alone.

 

for those of you who've had a Mini for a long time, the JCW kit wasn't available until the end of 02 the beginning of 03.

But this is all speculation until the ECU is cracked....

Matt

 

Has any paused to think that must maybe ... BMW has made it difficult "on purpose" to get more HP? If they have to make the engine "bigger" (per motoringfile) maybe they want all the aftermarket business for themselves

 

JCW didn't lead the way - we had pulleys long before JCW!

That said, we have already looked at the ECU and are working on it. It will take a while, but there is certainly potential.

There is already a downpipe and catback developed, and the airbox is not far behind.

We won't know until we start testing what we can and can't do to this car. Testing should be fun though!

I can say the R53 is bulletproof, and it will be hard to beat that with the new car (not saying it can't be done though).

Hope that helps!
Randy

 

That's the point I was trying to make in post #18.

 

Sorry, didnt catch it.

If, in fact, to get a JCW you got to bore and stroke out the engine (or whatever its called) to make a "bigger" engine, how many people are going to be willing to pay the money to have that doen without a factory warranty?

And, why not just put a bigger engine in to begin with? Well, I guess if JCW is a separate model as some indicate, then it will have a different engine. Then the modders will be wanting to mode the JCW engine

As I have read elsewhere ... whats the point. If you want a faster car, just buy a faster car and maybe that is what JCW will do

 

Then we would have nothing to do or talk about and NAM would cease to exist and we wouldn't leave our homes and the psychiatrist bills would add up......