Don from dmh brought this to my attention and I have sinse gone to the Dinan site and they believe it is an issue..... I have spoken with others who don't see the need...... one thing about Dinan is they give you some tech data to go on and they do not seem to do things for "no good reasons" so.....is this an isssue or "flysh!t in pepper"????

this involves a higher capacity fuel pump etc.....

 

Well Dinan is the only people I have heard of adding a high capacity fuel pump with a pulley install..so..

 

DMH is a huge proponent...... in fact I don't think Don will tune for anything larger than 380 without addtional capacity.... I'm sure we will here from him..... I am thinking of doing this ..... I am running 440s and my A/F are very good but there are other issues that I would like all the "Gurus" to explore......

 

I asked Dinan this very question - why are they the only ones requiring the fuel pump and regulator while so many others are skipping it? Plainly, he said that in their testing they were not comfortable with the air/fuel mix when more air was brought into the equation with the 15% pulley.

The guy said that it is a precaution they require because they were not comfortable at all putting a warranty on something that was not within their test/quality/safety specs. The specific rep. I spoke with used to be a SA at a MINI dealership in CA and said that he saw numerous problems related to the pulleys and fuel delivery. I call BS on that one 'cause you'd think those problems would be all over this board by now.

Based on what Dinan has and continues to do for the BMW community, I trust them and their assessment. Their MINI products are priced higher than competitors and they are losing out to many other outfits based on the vastly different price points of the MINI and BMW markets, but they will not put something out there just to sell it in high numbers - they put it out there because they know it will help your car and they have to put the Dinan name and warranty behind it.

That's my view; I researched it and had a lengthy conversation about it with Dinan, and my estimation is that the fuel upgrade is reasonable. I've spoken with another vendor/tuner on this site and he said that the tests that Dinan did which showed a need for the fuel system upgrade were individual problems with their test car and in no way indicative of every other MCS out there.

So I guess the issue is not solved...

mb

 

thanks for this post.....

I belive that the pressure insures that the spray from the injectors is optimized, .... pooling is an issue that Don has raised..... I wish there were money back policies....

 

My twincharged MCS ran super rich with 440cc injectors. Tested it on two different dynos. Both places the A/Fs ran off the bottom of the charts...too rich. Had to use an AFC to lean them down. We're talking about well over 220whp range (up into the 260s) here on a stock fuel pump, stock fuel filter, stock fuel lines, stock fuel rail, stock regulator. I guess Hubie Fuh and Fireballed! Racing must know something Steve Dinan and Dinan doesn't.

 

How do the stock fuel system components compare to the ones that Dinan replaces? Are they linked to the ECU? Does the software that Dinan loads perhaps address functions that other chip tunes and ECU programs do not? Might paying attention to this "detail" allow one to go faster without sacrificing AS much fuel economy? Could it reduce the risks as tuners get closer to the "edge"?

 

Come on now I pulled 415whp without running out of fuel. And that was twincharged so the motor was making close to 500.

 

With JCW using basically a 15% pulley on their kits... with no issues from fueling difficiencies, (on the original JCW kits) i call BS on DINAN as well... its just a way to charge more money for the "stages"... The best way would be to set up a OBD reader and check the fueling percentages of the injectors when increasing boost and seeing if its going over 80% duty cycle. Then adding larger sized injectors accordingly.

In regards to MTH, at least hearing from people who have asked for files on higher sized injectors than 380cc it seems to be a coding issue with MTH, not as much a problem wth enough fueling...

If/when someone can offer services to allow larger than 380cc injectors (without using a piggyback or stand alone) will be making alot of people's lives alot easier....

 

Dinan increases the PSI of the fuel rail, so instead of putting larger injectors, they increase the pressure making the 340cc injectors basically higher flowing...

 

the fuel pressure is regulated to a constant pressure relative to intake boost. On stock cars the stuff in the tank is up to the task. AS you increase boost more, eventually you can't maintain the pressure difference, because all the crap in the tank wasn't designed to go that high.....

So what to do....

1) Run larger injectors. Even with the pressure down, this will still flow more gas than smaller. But this requires a retune (yeah, 440s would run rich if you don't tell the ECU they are there!)

2) Fix the stuff in the tank. This will give you more headroom, just like larger injectors will.

As far as when the fuel rail will crap out, there are many who get good HP from it, but it sure isn't really an ideal size for larger HP applications..... But it's been done so you may not HAVE to go here......

Matt

 

So Matt,

as long as your A/F are in line there is no need?

 

Again - it sounds like all other Dinan parts - a little over engineered, over planned, too far on the safe side for some and at too much of an expense. Dinan's goal is to create a car that will be as effective at 150,000mi as it is at 5; I guess they saw a need for it over time.

Someone mentioned JCW - on newer kits they do in fact offer the larger injectors, no?

mb

 

Not if your injector duty cycles are too high. Short term you may get away with it. Long term you won't.

 

there's no "hard line" here. As you run out of fuel delivery capacity, the injectors duty cycle will climb. Yeah, they'll work even at 100% duty cycle, but they start to heat significantly and the lifetimes drop. Also, remeber the JCW injectors are 380s, and the stocks are 340s. That's about a 10% difference..... But if you start going to 400s and larger, you're placing ever increasing demands on your fuel delivery system....

So,

 

I have 440s ... pressure maintains proper atomization which can make a dif in the quality of the burn..... an eldebrock pump is only $139.00 for that kind of money it is worth a try... of course I will need another retune

 

fuel requirements are hp related. Hubie and Jan didn't need a larger delivery to the injectors until they hit 400hp, and then they did, and then only at high rpm-high power. As I recall, the Mini ECU sets injector pulse rate by a map when at WOT, rather than servo-ing off the A/F, so even if you are fuel starved from the delivery sytem, the injectors will pulse at the same rate at the expense of correct A/F.

 

wow!

do you have a dyno graph! I want to see what kind of torque that thing was making and when!!!!! you can pm it to me if you want!

thats awesome!

Good job!

 

i haven't looked at the edelbrock pump... but... i would roll with the tried and true walbro 255... everyone uses them... they are even less money... not that 20-40 bucks makes a difference... but you are going to have a little bit of labor getting the factory fuel gauge to work.

 

Why is that? Does the kit alta offers not just slip into the position that the factory one is in.

 

Shouldn't you be at the dyno cranking it up on that high octane??

 

LOL!

your the **** Paul!

thats exactly what i was thinking

 

no clue what alta does...

there kit doesn't include a fuel system...

at least according to there website... if anyone is in the "know" on this please chime in

this is from there website
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=1]The ALTA kit includes: a polished tubular exhaust manifold, polished mandrel bent down-pipe, Garrett Turbo charger, polished boost tubes, PERRIN performance blow off valve, oil and water lines, foam filter element, air box, silicone intake tube.[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

I remember seeing a Walbro fuel pump that they offered a while back...

I am waiting in line to get on the dyno... I am scheduled for 3... 50 minutes to go...

 

cool! you should bring a video camera with you! That would be awesome!

ya... i just got done looking over there website and i couldn't find anything...

good luck on the dyno!