Drivetrain Gauge install with DFIC
5th Gear
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
From: San Juan, PR
There's a sticky thread on the electrical modifications forum for an Autometer Boost Gauge install:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=58578
That should be a good starting point...
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=58578
That should be a good starting point...
No Fear Gear
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 921
Likes: 0
From: Golden Central Coast Cali
Those would be good places but the aforementioned thread:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.com...ad.php?t=58578
does have an easier route to take.
My Promini gauges came with great instructions for connecting the boost gauge input, coupling it in with my VGS mod back when I had the VGS mod.
I personally think the Promini set is better and more Mini oriented (looking) than the others.
Paul
https://www.northamericanmotoring.com...ad.php?t=58578
does have an easier route to take.
My Promini gauges came with great instructions for connecting the boost gauge input, coupling it in with my VGS mod back when I had the VGS mod.
I personally think the Promini set is better and more Mini oriented (looking) than the others.
Paul
5th Gear
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 654
Likes: 0
From: East SF Bay Area, CA
Those would be good places but the aforementioned thread:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.com...ad.php?t=58578
does have an easier route to take.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.com...ad.php?t=58578
does have an easier route to take.
On the other hand, using the post-core DFIC bung would be easier in terms of actual installation, but you'd have to find a 1/8" NPT male x 1/8" hose adapter. That shouldn't be terribly difficult, but I wasn't able to locate one locally after a half-hearted effort.
That said, I wanted to save the DFIC bung for possible water injection in the near future, so I followed the first method above. Make sure to use a hose clamp on the tee fitting for the connection running to the gauge - I didn't the first time, and the hose popped loose after 70 miles. :impatient
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Former Vendor
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,594
Likes: 2
From: los angeles
Hi Guys....
Here's a visual representation of how to tap in to the DFIC, this particular car
used the bungs for thermocouples. I got some 1/8" NPT plugs with a hose coupling from ACE hard ware. If you like to call us, we can sell you one
for a couple of bucks + ship.
peter
Team M7
562-608-8123
DFIC bungs....
Here's a visual representation of how to tap in to the DFIC, this particular car
used the bungs for thermocouples. I got some 1/8" NPT plugs with a hose coupling from ACE hard ware. If you like to call us, we can sell you one
for a couple of bucks + ship.
peter
Team M7
562-608-8123
DFIC bungs....
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,957
Likes: 2
From: a canyon, south Bay Area
Very clean instal Peter. Almost Sid-like...
I just realized that while the reported temp deltas (pre & post core) for the DFIC have been nice, given the bung location, they are even better than what we see. What I mean is that the best cooling is happening toward the front of the the DFIC, while the rear portion, where the bungs are located, receives warmer than ambient air. So, the actual IAT should be lower than what the post core thermocouple registers...
I just realized that while the reported temp deltas (pre & post core) for the DFIC have been nice, given the bung location, they are even better than what we see. What I mean is that the best cooling is happening toward the front of the the DFIC, while the rear portion, where the bungs are located, receives warmer than ambient air. So, the actual IAT should be lower than what the post core thermocouple registers...
Last edited by TonyB; Oct 26, 2006 at 12:12 PM. Reason: word ommission...
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,196
Likes: 0
From: Hampton, VA
Very clean instal Peter. Almost Sid-like...
I just realized that while the reported temp deltas (pre & post core) for the DFIC have been nice, given the bung location, they are even better than what we see. What I mean is that the best cooling is happening toward the front of the the DFIC, while the rear portion, where the bungs are located, receives warmer than ambient air. So, the actual IAT should be lower than what the post core thermocouple registers...
I just realized that while the reported temp deltas (pre & post core) for the DFIC have been nice, given the bung location, they are even better than what we see. What I mean is that the best cooling is happening toward the front of the the DFIC, while the rear portion, where the bungs are located, receives warmer than ambient air. So, the actual IAT should be lower than what the post core thermocouple registers...
There's quite a bit of swirl going on inside the end tanks so I can't see the difference being too far off.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,926
Likes: 40
From: Greensboro, NC
Only a "couple of bucks"
Now you tell me
Mine didn't fit the bung so I tapped into the bottom/center...this should provide an average between front to back temp variances...
DFIC is upside down in this image...
One gauge, two reading...
Bung used for digital boost gauge...in this case, pre-IC boost...I switch back and forth and sometimes use both to get an average reading...
Now you tell me Mine didn't fit the bung so I tapped into the bottom/center...this should provide an average between front to back temp variances...
DFIC is upside down in this image...
One gauge, two reading...
Bung used for digital boost gauge...in this case, pre-IC boost...I switch back and forth and sometimes use both to get an average reading...
Hi Guys....
Here's a visual representation of how to tap in to the DFIC, this particular car
used the bungs for thermocouples. I got some 1/8" NPT plugs with a hose coupling from ACE hard ware. If you like to call us, we can sell you one
for a couple of bucks + ship.
peter
Team M7
562-608-8123
DFIC bungs....
Here's a visual representation of how to tap in to the DFIC, this particular car
used the bungs for thermocouples. I got some 1/8" NPT plugs with a hose coupling from ACE hard ware. If you like to call us, we can sell you one
for a couple of bucks + ship.
peter
Team M7
562-608-8123
DFIC bungs....
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,957
Likes: 2
From: a canyon, south Bay Area
That's what I thought initially, but after reading other forums, and their experimentation with thermocouple placement, there is a difference, and I would think even more so with a thicker core like this one.
It would be neat to see what the exit temp is out the back, but I would guess it's quite a bit warmer than when it entered (ambient). That being the case, the charged air getting funneled toward the rear of the DFIC is getting the worst cooling benefit (still very good, apparently), and with the thermocouple positioned at it's exit, it will more easily encounter the highest of the temp range exiting the core.
If the thermocouple is registering let's say 95 degrees F, it might be 89 in the front, with 92 being the actual IAT.
With traditional top-mounts (down-drafters) needing help to divert air to the forward portion of the core, a similarily placed thermocouple would be more inclined to read lower than actual IATs...
It would be neat to see what the exit temp is out the back, but I would guess it's quite a bit warmer than when it entered (ambient). That being the case, the charged air getting funneled toward the rear of the DFIC is getting the worst cooling benefit (still very good, apparently), and with the thermocouple positioned at it's exit, it will more easily encounter the highest of the temp range exiting the core.
If the thermocouple is registering let's say 95 degrees F, it might be 89 in the front, with 92 being the actual IAT.
With traditional top-mounts (down-drafters) needing help to divert air to the forward portion of the core, a similarily placed thermocouple would be more inclined to read lower than actual IATs...
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,196
Likes: 0
From: Hampton, VA
That's what I thought initially, but after reading other forums, and their experimentation with thermocouple placement, there is a difference, and I would think even more so with a thicker core like this one.
It would be neat to see what the exit temp is out the back, but I would guess it's quite a bit warmer than when it entered (ambient). That being the case, the charged air getting funneled toward the rear of the DFIC is getting the worst cooling benefit (still very good, apparently), and with the thermocouple positioned at it's exit, it will more easily encounter the highest of the temp range exiting the core.
If the thermocouple is registering let's say 95 degrees F, it might be 89 in the front, with 92 being the actual IAT.
With traditional top-mounts (down-drafters) needing help to divert air to the forward portion of the core, a similarily placed thermocouple would be more inclined to read lower than actual IATs...
It would be neat to see what the exit temp is out the back, but I would guess it's quite a bit warmer than when it entered (ambient). That being the case, the charged air getting funneled toward the rear of the DFIC is getting the worst cooling benefit (still very good, apparently), and with the thermocouple positioned at it's exit, it will more easily encounter the highest of the temp range exiting the core.
If the thermocouple is registering let's say 95 degrees F, it might be 89 in the front, with 92 being the actual IAT.
With traditional top-mounts (down-drafters) needing help to divert air to the forward portion of the core, a similarily placed thermocouple would be more inclined to read lower than actual IATs...
I wasn't disagreeing with that part.
All I am saying is that the readings on both sides will be biased because of this and the temp drop across the core will be consistent.
So your resulting TE may be skewed slightly (depending very much on the amount of error) but the drop will be repeatable.
Once everything gets squeezed together in the remaining induction path it averages out anyway.
Shouldn't be too hard to find extensions for thermocouples. I saw them all the time when I did wind tunnel tech support.
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,957
Likes: 2
From: a canyon, south Bay Area
Obe, I thought about a longer thermocouple also, but I'm sure that can't be beneficial to flow dynamics either; but would interesting to see for curiousity sake...
The temp variance in the pre end tank is probably very minimal, if any as it's simply beat-up SC air. The post end tank temps will see lower temps due to the effect of the core acting as a heat-exchanger of course. The temp variance within the post tank would seem to be not nearly as constant as seen on the pre core side; but gradually warmer toward the rear...
Just a realization that I had upon seeing that above photo with the thermocouple placement is not the most ideal position to read the most accurate output temp in the exit end tank. A thermocouple in the middle would most likely yield a truer measure of the actual overall temp, and with that, a more definitive delta and the core's efficiency.
The temp variance in the pre end tank is probably very minimal, if any as it's simply beat-up SC air. The post end tank temps will see lower temps due to the effect of the core acting as a heat-exchanger of course. The temp variance within the post tank would seem to be not nearly as constant as seen on the pre core side; but gradually warmer toward the rear...
Just a realization that I had upon seeing that above photo with the thermocouple placement is not the most ideal position to read the most accurate output temp in the exit end tank. A thermocouple in the middle would most likely yield a truer measure of the actual overall temp, and with that, a more definitive delta and the core's efficiency.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,196
Likes: 0
From: Hampton, VA
Obe, I thought about a longer thermocouple also, but I'm sure that can't be beneficial to flow dynamics either; but would interesting to see for curiousity sake...
The temp variance in the pre end tank is probably very minimal, if any as it's simply beat-up SC air. The post end tank temps will see lower temps due to the effect of the core acting as a heat-exchanger of course. The temp variance within the post tank would seem to be not nearly as constant as seen on the pre core side; but gradually warmer toward the rear...
Just a realization that I had upon seeing that above photo with the thermocouple placement is not the most ideal position to read the most accurate output temp in the exit end tank. A thermocouple in the middle would most likely yield a truer measure of the actual overall temp, and with that, a more definitive delta and the core's efficiency.
The temp variance in the pre end tank is probably very minimal, if any as it's simply beat-up SC air. The post end tank temps will see lower temps due to the effect of the core acting as a heat-exchanger of course. The temp variance within the post tank would seem to be not nearly as constant as seen on the pre core side; but gradually warmer toward the rear...
Just a realization that I had upon seeing that above photo with the thermocouple placement is not the most ideal position to read the most accurate output temp in the exit end tank. A thermocouple in the middle would most likely yield a truer measure of the actual overall temp, and with that, a more definitive delta and the core's efficiency.
Don't know how much flow really matters in the rather turbulent environment of a supercharged system like ours.
Also the probes, like the ones Sid uses, are 1/8th to 3/16ths in dia. maybe 4" long should work.
Something like this:
http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/pr...0844110&pfx=EW
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,957
Likes: 2
From: a canyon, south Bay Area
Seems like it wouldn't hamper flow all that much... But then folks spend quite a bit of money to clean-up the rough surfaces within, feeling that it is worthy to not have obstructions.
For those who are not using their stock boots, and still have them, this would be a neat experiment. Instead of a pre/post core delta, put both in the post boot, one in the front, and the other in the rear. These probes would be further from the core though (as compared to the bung) so there would be more mixing of the air at that point, and the delta less evident...
I think the long thermocouple would be the way to go then. Is only the tip of that thermocouple "active," or is the whole length influenced by temp? If the entire 4" length, then it would probably provide the best accounting of the actual temp, and might want to be considered as a permanent solution. However, if only the tip registers temps, then it would be ideal to see the temp delta from front to back...
Still looking for a nice gauge that shows both temps simulataneously, and is responsive enough to show rapid changes up & down.
For those who are not using their stock boots, and still have them, this would be a neat experiment. Instead of a pre/post core delta, put both in the post boot, one in the front, and the other in the rear. These probes would be further from the core though (as compared to the bung) so there would be more mixing of the air at that point, and the delta less evident...
I think the long thermocouple would be the way to go then. Is only the tip of that thermocouple "active," or is the whole length influenced by temp? If the entire 4" length, then it would probably provide the best accounting of the actual temp, and might want to be considered as a permanent solution. However, if only the tip registers temps, then it would be ideal to see the temp delta from front to back...
Still looking for a nice gauge that shows both temps simulataneously, and is responsive enough to show rapid changes up & down.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,196
Likes: 0
From: Hampton, VA
Seems like it wouldn't hamper flow all that much... But then folks spend quite a bit of money to clean-up the rough surfaces within, feeling that it is worthy to not have obstructions.
For those who are not using their stock boots, and still have them, this would be a neat experiment. Instead of a pre/post core delta, put both in the post boot, one in the front, and the other in the rear. These probes would be further from the core though (as compared to the bung) so there would be more mixing of the air at that point, and the delta less evident...
I think the long thermocouple would be the way to go then. Is only the tip of that thermocouple "active," or is the whole length influenced by temp? If the entire 4" length, then it would probably provide the best accounting of the actual temp, and might want to be considered as a permanent solution. However, if only the tip registers temps, then it would be ideal to see the temp delta from front to back...
Still looking for a nice gauge that shows both temps simulataneously, and is responsive enough to show rapid changes up & down.
For those who are not using their stock boots, and still have them, this would be a neat experiment. Instead of a pre/post core delta, put both in the post boot, one in the front, and the other in the rear. These probes would be further from the core though (as compared to the bung) so there would be more mixing of the air at that point, and the delta less evident...
I think the long thermocouple would be the way to go then. Is only the tip of that thermocouple "active," or is the whole length influenced by temp? If the entire 4" length, then it would probably provide the best accounting of the actual temp, and might want to be considered as a permanent solution. However, if only the tip registers temps, then it would be ideal to see the temp delta from front to back...
Still looking for a nice gauge that shows both temps simulataneously, and is responsive enough to show rapid changes up & down.
I do know that the faster the response time the more expensive they get.
Very interesting idea on the temp measurements front to back. I'd like to see that as well.
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,957
Likes: 2
From: a canyon, south Bay Area
I attempted some probbing (ha!) on thermocouples here:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...t=thermocouple
Chossing the most appropriate type, and then a guage that reacts fast enough to make it worthwhile, just bogged-down my pursuit any further.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...t=thermocouple
Chossing the most appropriate type, and then a guage that reacts fast enough to make it worthwhile, just bogged-down my pursuit any further.
My little dose of LITHIUM
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,435
Likes: 2
From: Albuquerque New Mexico
The Vivid Racing (VR) Intercooler Gauge is pretty cool and $279 all up. But the website does not indicate how big the probes are. Sid, would they fit the 1/4" NPT bungs on the DFIC?
cheers,
cheers,