Originally Posted by Dr Obnxs

when SC porting was all the rage, I found Steigmeier, and posted all the contact information and price for all. At that time, you could only buy from M7 or Endyne. I did it to be nice to the community, as there are lots of vendors out there that sell to wider markets than just Mini and may not even be aware of our existance here. In the end it turns out that Steigmeier is who does M7s SCs..... But I'll admit the possibility that some may have gone straight to Steigmeier instead of M7. And Peter and I are still on good terms!

Some have posted about AJUSA.com for K&N products (real cheap and free shipping). I and others have referenced eBay to get Densos at a significant savings over the vendors here.....

So what's the point of all this? Well, that while there are vendor rules and the like, the area of pointing out other market sources for product that isn't from a registered vendor is in a very grey area. If talk is limited to only registered vendors, the value of learning here is greatly diminished. If anyone can post about any product, there's no value in the vendor status. Seems to me the only workable solution is that people can talk about what they've found in the market, and vendors can only talk about their stuff directly if they register.

Alta didn't fold when Webb switched to other vendors, and the HDI finds channels to the market when the manufacturer and the sales channel no longer see eye to eye. Life goes on, and it's certainly not worth the bandwidth that has been spent on the issue.....

FWIW, I'll keep posting finds, even if they don't come from a registered vendor, and I sure hope others do to. While it's nice to keep the vendors in business, it's not our responsibility to shield them from the competative forces in the marketplace.....

Another way to put it is that if anyone thinks I'm spending $12 a plug for densos, they're smoking crack, no matter how much they've contributed to the Mini community!

So on the posting that you can get the HDI direct from DMM? Great stuff! Keep it coming. Remember, markets only work if there is unfettered access to information...... Personally, I don't care who buys from which supplier. Everyone can make their own decision there. But you have to know that there are options to be able to make the choice.

This one is muddied more by never to be completely clear partitioning of the product design work. And while that is true, it doens't matter for squat. It only matters if the parties agreed to some sort of partitioning of the design content or IP. If this didn't happen, anyone can go knock them off! That's the market for you. But that's also an issue that doesn't get played out here. I haven't seen any patent claims on this sucker, so I guess it's a free for all, like it or not.

So lets all take a deep breath, and go back to bitching that the DFIC numbers aren't here yet!

Matt

Originally Posted by Skiploder

Bob:

I want to be clear in stating that I don't believe for a second that you started this thread with the intent of any wrong doing.

You are an avid member of this community and have posted positive things about about every vendor you've done business with.

Olive branch accepted - but seriously, the only issue I had was with the Mods allowing the thread to exist without modifying it.

Originally Posted by camelpilot

ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO ARE PISSED OFF AT WMS FOR NOT RECEIVING YOUR HDI BOXES, CAN THANK DDM FOR THAT.

Originally Posted by camelpilot

You, have not just lost the plot, but you are also biased.

The HDI is no ajusa, steigmeir, k&n, so why are you even comparing it to those situations?

And for people to support this type of behaviour from DDM is just BS.

Who the EFF are they anyway?

What input did they have into the development of all the products you have on your car Dr. Obnxs? WMS has been a key player in the development of performance parts for the MINI, yet phoneys like yourself fully support situations where these hard working tuners get screwed over. I'm sure if the same thing happened to M7 you would be changing your tune quick time. Hence me calling you biased.

Just because there are unhappy customers out there pissed off at Webb for issues with their PROTOTYPE exhaust, and their HDI boxes (HDEFFINGI HINT EFFING HINT), doesnt mean that WMS are a bunch of douche-bags, doesn't mean they don't know how to run a business nor does it mean that people should not support them.

ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO ARE PISSED OFF AT WMS FOR NOT RECEIVING YOUR HDI BOXES, CAN THANK DDM FOR THAT.

But that is ok. Because like I said earlier, the new WMS product will eat the HDI for breakfast, the Alta for lunch, and the AGS for dinner.

In a way, we are all glad that this has happened. Because it has made Webb Motorsports stronger.

Originally Posted by camelpilot

In a way, we are all glad that this has happened. Because it has made Webb Motorsports stronger.

Originally Posted by Mini Mizer

quick question, if DDM doesnt have a silicone hose for the HDI, will the alta hose work with it? and if it will, is there alot of modifacation that involves getting it to fit?

thanks-

Originally Posted by hornguys

I rarely get into the wars on this forum, and I won't stay in this one, but your statement above is simply unbelievable.

The Webb folks are great people, but if you think they are stronger just now, with having to be closed in the meat of the business week due to limited resources, then I have several bridges with your names on them.

Businesses that are growing - that are stronger than ever - do not resort to having to be closed for several days in the middle of the business week. That's just plain commonsense.

Personally, I greatly hope they can pull out of their troubles. I have spent several thousands of dollars with Randy, and he was always extremely informative and courteous beyond expectations.

But IMO, they are most certainly NOT stronger just now, if we can judge from all the telltale signs that we see with most any business who finds itself at a similar juncture.

Originally Posted by hornguys

I rarely get into the wars on this forum, and I won't stay in this one, but your statement above is simply unbelievable.

Originally Posted by Johan

When I hear the MASS amount of people saying how WMS doesn't return phone calls, emails ect is just not good for business.

Originally Posted by Johan

I have called other venders and left messages and they returned the phone call within hours. Please keep this in mind before you guys go bashing anyone.

Originally Posted by camelpilot

You, have not just lost the plot, but you are also biased.

The HDI is no ajusa, steigmeir, k&n, so why are you even comparing it to those situations?

And for people to support this type of behaviour from DDM is just BS.

Who the EFF are they anyway?

What input did they have into the development of all the products you have on your car Dr. Obnxs? WMS has been a key player in the development of performance parts for the MINI, yet phoneys like yourself fully support situations where these hard working tuners get screwed over. I'm sure if the same thing happened to M7 you would be changing your tune quick time. Hence me calling you biased.

Just because there are unhappy customers out there pissed off at Webb for issues with their PROTOTYPE exhaust, and their HDI boxes (HDEFFINGI HINT EFFING HINT), doesnt mean that WMS are a bunch of douche-bags, doesn't mean they don't know how to run a business nor does it mean that people should not support them.

ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO ARE PISSED OFF AT WMS FOR NOT RECEIVING YOUR HDI BOXES, CAN THANK DDM FOR THAT.

But that is ok. Because like I said earlier, the new WMS product will eat the HDI for breakfast, the Alta for lunch, and the AGS for dinner.

In a way, we are all glad that this has happened. Because it has made Webb Motorsports stronger.

Originally Posted by camelpilot

Johan thanks for your input. I was at WMS this week and I have seen they have made every attempt to improve on this. They have Vicki there now, and she is sharp! And very nice on the phone. Hopefully, unreturned calls from WMS will be a thing of the past. Please try to keep supporting them, because they really are making every attempt to support you.

Originally Posted by hornguys

I rarely get into the wars on this forum, and I won't stay in this one, but your statement above is simply unbelievable.

The Webb folks are great people, but if you think they are stronger just now, with having to be closed in the meat of the business week due to limited resources, then I have several bridges with your names on them.

Businesses that are growing - that are stronger than ever - do not resort to having to be closed for several days in the middle of the business week. That's just plain commonsense.

Personally, I greatly hope they can pull out of their troubles. I have spent several thousands of dollars with Randy, and he was always extremely informative and courteous beyond expectations.

But IMO, they are most certainly NOT stronger just now, if we can judge from all the telltale signs that we see with most any business who finds itself at a similar juncture.

Originally Posted by Skiploder

I think they may end up surprising a lot of people.

Webb is no dummy and is frankly too smart to go hungry. He's apparently simplifying the business, he's selling the Mule and the Elise in an effort to put more $$$ back into the business.

In the past, other Vendors have benefitted from Webb's innovation and the fact that he was willing travel to your City to install not only parts that he developed, but parts that other Vendors brought to market.

So the new model may include him producing, manufacturing and exclusively selling his own go fast bits. This would avoid any potential issues with manufacturers and other Vendors using his name, cred and install time to promote their products.

In the end, he should be able to make more money on each sale as in the past he made as much if not more money from the installs. This will lead to him being home more and being less reliant on pulley parties to make a buck.

On Friday I ordered a part from Webb. On Monday it was on my doorstep. With the exception of the HDI brouhahha, this is a sign that the refocusing of his efforts are paying dividends.

I also called the shop at 10:00 PM (his time) last night to thank him for the prompt shipping of my order. I was more than pleasantly surprised to have him pick up the phone and spend about 15 minutes chatting. He and young master Black were apparently at the shop, filling orders and working on installs.

Originally Posted by SpiderX

I have asked Dave (moderator) if he would consider closing the thread.....I tried to save it but I don't think it can be done.... I will ask Dave at DDM to make a formal announcement and there questions pertaing to the intake can be taken