Agreed on the trying new stuff point.
Butt....
Has there ever been any evidence that this AGS "Heat Shield" does anything though?
Finally got a good look at one at The Dragon and it's not really much of a shield. It's a finesse point beyond the HAI no doubt but is it effective?

CF isn't much of an insulator and the surface doesn't do much in the way of thermal reflectivity I'm thinking.

At a standstill it's pretty much percolating between the hot intake and the hot radiator. Under motion you do get air in through the OEM slot but the unit acting as a heat shield appears to act as a flow trap at the same time.
Reference this pic


Where does the flow exit and is it impeded?

Encasing the filter totally and running a 3" silicone tube to the rear wall would be a flow improvement.

 

i think ur onto something here. I always was thinking about the turbulent (and consequently low-speed) air intake stream being detrimental to the flow of the AGS. I mean, this is what the DFIC's awesome performance is based on! Less turbulent, and thus faster, air flow...

 

this is what the air temps looked like for the RPM and steady state runs. The total difference isn't large.....

The stuff below ~100 kmh is from the RPM runs, and the stuff after is from setting the cruise control at 70 mph for about a mile. The best of the HAI is within degrees of the best of the stock. But the spread for the HAI is larger.

Also, I do think the heat shield for the AGS does something. The cold air will more envelope the filter.... And sure, a sealed unit would be best, but it's a very complicated space to make a "box" for....

And Roland's work on MINI2 leads me to believe that the stock set up is far from optimized. While the air box to TB duct isn't bad, the restrictions into the air box sure are small. The CAI kits have it right, get more air to a bigger filter and take a rip! Sheet metal sure is easy to use for forming the CAI baffles, but it may not have the best properties......

Matt

 

How/Where do I get any form of BiM-COM???

 

but right now I think the only way it to cozy up to one of the beta testers and borrow it. Ross Tech has retrenched, and isn't talking about when it will come out, and it can't be bought anywhere. Sorry, I live in CA.....

But the T-MAP values might be loggable by some of the OBD-II software. There are a buch of variables that have to be available via standard OBD diagnostics, and the T-MAP values are two, I think. Ask some that have Auterra or one of the other logging packages.

Matt

 

First... awesome numbers! I've always wondered what the HAI benefits were, if any.

Second, with most CAIs having sheet metal, and most specifically the Helix CAI since that is what I have, would there be any benefits from lining the inside of the sheet metal with something like duct insulation?

 

Good stuff - DOC, I always learn something!

It would be interesting to do the same test with an aftermarket sealed box like Ata or HDI or MyMini - plus a larger down tube to see those figures compared to the HAI.

 

I'm running a mymini sealed box and was thinking of insulating it but after running the car it is not hot to the touch which surprised me. i'm sure insulation would help but proabably insignificant % loss in temp.

 

When you say "running" were you at idle, or were you out motoring around?

I can't imagine it having much impact on the temps when you are moving, but I bet at idle it may have a little impact... I think I may run to the good HomeDepot tonight and do some tests.

Of course, I'm desperate like motor_on for BiM-Com... so I'll have to be creative in the testing.

 

Metal is just about the worst insulator out there so anything will help, how much is yet TBD I'm going to line box with the rubber used in industrial roofing, I can get the temp at or just below ambient I'll be happy. I'm going to wait until I have thermometer though so I can get some quantitative data.

 

Call me lame, but this is what I was thinking...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...lance&n=284507

 

No doubt the temps will rise in our engine bay with no forward motion. Once moving, it seems (from testing that I've read before, actually on MINI2) that they drop quite nicely. Something well-insulated, like the stock box, will be impacted less by higher temps...

Oh, just to confirm, I did see where someone (at least one person), had a K&N type filter, a small one, inside the stock box. I believe he also enlarged the plenum. No right or wrong here, just different approaches, and even different goals (performance, looks, sound, price, etc)...

I for one am not highly concerned about peformance from a dead stop, while idling for a while, like at a light. I know that some are though. There are things that we can do... The engine bay gets hot, probably most notably from our header. I'm in the process of seeking-out a ceramic coater for my SS now... The delta in engine bay temps, at least on other cars, has been noteworthy to dramatic. Much of the heat that might directly warm the HAI (via touch even) is from the IC exit snoot. I will consider ceramic coating there also so as to make surface temps less. However, a good IC will make exit temps quite acceptable, even ambient like...

And for whatever temps are then allowed in the engine bay, flushing them out, and letting them vacate would be the next step, the way I see. I feel that the DFIC, with its somewhat straight-through ambient flow will help in carrying away heat much better. If engine bay temps are lower while driving, the start of the baking point when idle begins will be lower as well... And, I still like the idea of well-conceived louvers! I think it was in the racing forum where I saw some neat ones...

 

In one of there first posts there is a link to MINI2 where someone went o lowes and got something very similar said they only spent $10 and managed to max it out at one point. There is a hardware store down the street going out o business, I think I just may have to go and take a look.

 

Tony; you seem like you are aware of the DFIC's preformance in gettting temps below ambient, the goal of insulating will not only reduce heat soak suffering but could also have the same effect of getting intake temps below ambient and causing a signifcat gain if the maximum airflow can be utilized without suffering the heat soak of the engine, Eventaully being able to combine both and thats some incredibally cold air getting pumped into the engine when the car is at speed. But it is a matter of trail and error and further testing.

 

is their thermal mass. Right now, I'm running the ones from Endmund Scientific that Andy pointed me at, they're cheap, and work. But they are not fast. That is, they don't change output quickly for a given change of air temp.

FWIW, the same thing is true in the T-MAP sensor. I was doing some research on these little buggers, and I found that most can respond to pressure changes in as little as 10-20 milliseconds, but the time constant for temp was 10 sec! That's longer than a 0-60 run! Source of error? You bet!

So now I'm keeping my eyes open for some J or K thermocouple wire at the local electronics salvage store to make my own. In my last job, I made some temp probes with half a thousandth diamter wire. Fast response, you bet!

The more massive probes (like the edmunds and the turkey one) are more than fast enough for most things, but not really for this stuff. But you use what you can.....

Matt

 

I plan to do something like this https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...5&d=1150103046
to my stock air box tonight. Just the hole, not the filter.

Later I'm planning on modifying the top to accept a cone filter. But I need to order the filter first. I will post pics if I'm sucessful.

 

"Tony; you seem like you are aware of the DFIC's preformance in gettting temps below ambient" The best you can get is ambeint. Is there something I missed?
Under hood heat, on these cars, is a problem. Lots of stuff in the way for a quick exit.

 

Negative pressure deltas by way of accellerated air flow is what I heard that they use to achieve a temp below ambient.

 

Simply put take air at ambient, speed it up and the temp drops due the drop in pressure. If you can get that cool air moving into the intake use the SC to build up the pressure and this will heat it, then run it throught the IC and cool it again then you have the coolest pressurized air possible, so it is at the highest possible density entering the engine. This is absolutes and ideals, unfotrunately real world doesn't allow for such simple methods.

 

Steve, the below ambient readings have been an eye-opener. I mentioned "ambient-like," which is good enough for me .

With regard to engine bay temps... First goal should be to prevent them, or keep them (the heat) where it belongs (my reference to ceramic coating), and second, for what heat is present after this, help it to get out (my reference to an exit path, louvers allowing hot air, which rises, to escape upward and out).

A filter that sits forward and relatively low would seem to get exposed to less heat than a filter up high and futher back in the engine bay. The HAI, and even more so the AGS, fit the former.

 

I wasn't talking about the Alta, HDI or other systems that are sealed off. Like I said I'm a bit particular in this regard so I've pursued sealing to a level most wouldn't bother with.
What I was speaking to was the good Dr's recommendation of just whacking a great hole ( my words not his ) in the rear wall. Also reference the "swiss cheese" mod.
This is what would allow unwanted air into the HVAC system.

 

The Davis Car Chip E/X is pretty nice and you can get them in a few places, Sears for one.

Doesn't appear to read the TMAP directly but will output IAT. Follow the link.

I have one BTW.

 

This is what you're looking for Heatshield Products

I have some of their tape on my intake tube already and will be doing the lower OEM box next. I was hoping one of their starter blankets would work but their too small.May make something out of their panels but their not cheap. 1 6x14" aluminum panel is $26.
For pricing try these guys BLR Motorsports

Here's a link to a pic of what I have so far

 

That was me :D

 

if you are going to do the intake hose why not do the entire box? or at least the sides and bottom