Has anyone tried to do this yet? Adding stronger components to your engine to make it stronger. Replacing pushrods, pistons, valve springs, etc. Are there any aftermarket companies developing new engine parts? What would you say is the highest achievable horsepower if you were to build the engine? I read in an import magazine about someone cryo treating the block, how does this help? This is pretty much and open ended thread about building the Mini's engine. Share your knowledge.

 

Yes i would also like to know, what are the stock limitations, how much boost can the stock rotating assembly take, has anyone pushed the limits, or there other reasons we cant go more than 15% reduction, there was the cavatating water pump issue but i believe i read somewhere that it was rulled out, is there a bigger intercooler available, water injection, even a bigger scoop for the bonnet for the intercooler, etc....

 

CooperSpeed,

RaceWare is making some head studs, and we are working on some new head components.

The first thing I would say to do to make a monster motor in a generic sense would be to get some Carillo rods, some JE pistons, knife edge everything, and balance it all then throw it back together with aerospace quality hardware.

With the MINI, we really have been blessed with a lot of great components. Mahle, the piston manufacturer for our little cars, is the factory supplier for Porsche, and on our cars the pistons are already the right compression and have oil sprayers. The rods are much more industrial, and the valves are sodium filled. We don't need to go hog wild with most of the internals.

Cryo treatments and coatings are helpful in reducing some of the heat and friction (which ends up translating to heat), so they could help - but there are other easier ways before we get to that expensive point. If I rebuilt the motor, here's what I would keep and what I would modify:

Keep the pistons (unless you are going bigger displacement)
Keep the rods (unless you are going bigger displacement)
Change the hardware (rod bolts and head studs)
Change the valves to something bigger
Ceramic coat the piston domes
Knife edge everything in sight (crank and engine case webbing)
Balance everything

That's just me though - let's hear what others have to say

 

I'm gonna say this, knowing it's about impossible with aftermarket....

Double VANOS, and Valvetronic

OR
Who wants to put an S54 engine in a MINI? I DO, I DO!

_________________
Wisdom is not a function of age, but a function of experience.
*Keeper of the CWFAC list*

 

>>
>>OR
>>Who wants to put an S54 engine in a MINI? I DO, I DO!

mmm...M-powered Mini....*droooool*

 

ok, realistically, how about a port and polish job on the head, a "hotter cam", and (if it's needed) a beefed up valvetrain to cope with a remapped ECU that runs the engine up to 7500RPM

 

You can port and polish a head with a Dremel tool, a steady hand and the right instructions. So that should not be that big a deal.

 

>>Has anyone tried to do this yet? Adding stronger components to your engine to make it stronger. Replacing pushrods, pistons, valve springs, etc. Are there any aftermarket companies developing new engine parts? What would you say is the highest achievable horsepower if you were to build the engine? I read in an import magazine about someone cryo treating the block, how does this help? This is pretty much and open ended thread about building the Mini's engine. Share your knowledge.

The idea behind cryo treating is similar to anealing (heat treating). With Cryo metal is gradually super chilled to minus 300°F or thereabouts. This process actually causes the molecules to compress @ a molecular level. Basically the metal shrinks. The process quite litterally squishes discontinuities within the metal out... Alingining the molecules in a structurally mroe organized (stronger) grain formation. This process occurs both from the chilling, and from a VERY gradual & controlled thaw/re-heating process.

My knowledge on the subject relates to electrical conductors in a signal path, but I do know that very similar processes are used to treat machine tools & other high wear items. It is my understancing that cutting tools can be manufactured with a with substancially greater surface hardness/finish, and increased life span - several hundred % greater than without cryo-treatment.

hope that's a bit of help.

I too like the idea of cryo treating engine components, but wouldn't know where to start.

As for other mods I like the idea of shaving the head & retro-fitting Titanium connecting rods with a longer than stock length.

This is just a theory, and I haven't the slightest idea if it would produce any hp gains let alone how much. ...But a guy like Randy might have an idea.

Why would I want to do this?
Its my understanding that connecting rods stretch a bit @ high rpm. This stretch allows the piston crowns to move ever so slightly closer to the valves/head & thus increases compression.

6/4 Titanium rods won't stretch significantly @ high heat/RPM - esp. when compared to steel - even forged. ...So in theory the crown of the piston could be positioned closer to the valves/head without the worry of valve crashing the valves or sudden increase in compression @ high RPM (due to rod stretch).

I believe the gains would be greater & more consistend compression - starting @ low RPM, and varying less @ high RPM. Being that off the line is where this car/engine suffers so much I figure this is one possible way to improve it. All of Randy's idea's about balancing etc. taken into account alsl.

AND for those of you who are thinking it... YES I do know its a supercharged engine & needs lower compression to function etc. I'm aware of this, and am not talking a crazy increase - just moderation.

Aside from this theoretical mod I'm interested in anything that reduces friction. I'd also love to hear ideas about how to cool the engine down/increase the supercharger's efficiency.

cheers,
mc

 

I think we need an expert to clarify. Anyone else have any other opinions or ideas?

 

Hi, I'm new to the site, really enjoy the performance forum & was pleased to see this topic pop up! My daily driver is an '03 MC & my impression is that the motor is a bit rough compared to some of the other cars I've driven. I'm wondering if this motor will benefit greatly from a decent balance/blueprint/indexing job? This should help to allow it to rev more freely & pick up a few horsepower. Do the aluminum flywheels currently on the market still have enough mass to allow a street engine to idle decently or do you end up with a lumpy idle?
We might see stroker kits in the coming years to turn that 1.6 into a 2 liter but I'm not sure a longer stroke would help to make the motor rev more smoothly, although It would help give this motor some much needed low end power. Perhaps some of the braver souls out there will be experimenting with cam timing soon & we will see if advancing the cam timing on the MC will net some more low-end for the street motors. Does anyone know if the part numbers for the MC & MCS camshafts are the same & what the stock lift & duration are? Is there really a Schrick cam out there & is it specifically for the MCS? I'd also like to know where the stock valves float but am not particularly interested in finding that limit myself!
Compression increases don't appear to be viable mods for either the MC motor(over 10.0-1 now) or MCS street motors with forced induction.
I've built a fair number of High performance N/Aspirated engines (Triumph/British Ford/VW H2O/Nissan) & there are usually gains to be had in Cylinder head mods, but $ per horsepower is usually high. Careful with that dremel!! Let the MINI tuners do the research there. Hogging out the ports without benefit of flow bench testing could suck away all your low end power. You might even end up grinding your way through to a water jacket. Aside from the filter/filter housing & throttle body, are there additional gains to be had by modifying the intake tract with extrusion honing?
I'll be interested to see if Randy & the other tuners find flow improvements by radiusing the stock valves for better airflow & if there are real-world gains to be had by increasing the valve sizes on the MC street motor or the MCS motor. The ideal ratio of port area to valve diameter size might be different from the MC to the MCS head. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the JCW head offered for UK MC's had slightly larger valves.
Concerning engine longevity, balancing & stress-relieving the bottom end should help. what should the stock oil pressures/temp be? I've heard that this motor runs high oil temps. Is this largely to reduce emissions & is fitting an oil cooler with thermostat a recommended mod on these motors to increase engine life? I'm assuming the existing engine bearings are good enough quality to withstand normal street mods.
Sorry for rambling but I've got questions, questions & more questions. I'm betting the racers out there will quickly find answers to most of these questions during the coming year. Anyone know if there is anything like an SAE paper published on this motor? :smile: Thanks!

 

http://www.frozenrotors.com/

Here you go. This is a site that I me and some other members of my bonne forum have looked into for cryo treated parts.

 

This may be a start (although it's lacking the diagrams, DOH!)
MCS powertrain info

Cheers,
Ryan

 

SlidewaysMINI,

Welcome to MCO!

The Schrick cam is real, and is for the MCS - 252 intake and 260 exhaust. Schrick stated that the stock MCS would only benefit by 5-6 horsepower with the cam, but with the pulley and headwork, the gains would be more substantial. They are sending a kit here from Germany, so I'll report on it when it gets here.

I agree that an oil cooler may help - that would be first in my book before an aftermarket radiator.

I haven't done any of the aluminum flywheels yet - but the work I have been doing with MINI-Madness has some new products - the flywheel and clutch are now available in stage form through them. I don't know if the testing has been completed yet on their side, but I haven't done it yet. I'll wait for the shop lift to get here before I tackle that (and I'd like for Quaife to get things straight too).

Hope that helps!

Randy

 

Can someone explain what knife edge means in this context. I've never heard it before.
Thanks

 

Thanks for the info! Randy, I hope you've got the special MINI snowplow hooked up

 

When you look at the edge of a knife, it looks like a wedge or triangle. Taking the counterweights of the crankshaft and shaping them to points at the end reduces the necessary force required to turn the crank through the oil (in a wet sump motor) and air inside the crankcase - therefore reducing the horsepower needed to operate the motor itself. You can do similar polishing inside the case to smooth airflow over the crankcase webbing. When you are throwing the pistons around inside the motor, it creates airflow inside the case. The less resistance you can get to turn the internals through that air, the less horsepower you are using to operate the engine. Remeber that reference I made about the motor being an air pump? This is just a way to make the air pump more efficient.

Hope that helps!

Randy

 

>>Can someone explain what knife edge means in this context. I've never heard it before.
>>Thanks

I believe this term refers to the practice of removing substantial material from the edges of the crank throws (counterweights) by narrowing or chamfering the edges. In cross section (from the side) the crank throw would go from roughly rectangular to triangular. You end up with a lighter crankshaft & in theory, the knife-edge provides a more areodynamic surface with less resistance at high RPM as the crank rotates in the crankcase. I have also heard the term applied to shaping valve guides. The portion of the guide that is exposed in the intake port is shaped so that a knife-edge is presented to the incoming air-flow, i.e better airflow past the guide. These are the types of mods some race engine builders add after all the other usual internal race-mods are done. They net tiny incremental gains that can add up to a couple more HP than a competitors engine. :smile:

 

Sorry Randy, was busy typing & didn't see your post!!