Ok. Here's my opinion of the JCW Kit for the Cooper S. Those of you that have been on this site for a while will know that I'm no expert or anything even resembling one. With that said, consider this...

The JCW kit offers 200HP and 177lbs of torque.
The stock S offers 163HP and 155lbs of torque.
So the Stock S torque is 95.1% of the HP rating while the JCW is only 88.5%.

I've seen several dyno plots now from MINIs with the new pulley. The HP gains seems to be around 15 and the torque gain around 16 at the wheels! This puts the torque gained at the crank at about 18-19.

The JCW MINI only gains 22lbs of torque at the crank. Anyone else surprised by this? They use the same 15% pulley that everyone is talking about. Which means that the pulley is responsible for up to 86% of the torque gain in the JCW!!!

The price of the JCW kit will be between $4500-6000. EVERYTHING I read says closer to $6000 although this week's autoweek said it will be around $4500. I tend to believe the higher number b/c when you take into account that MINI only plans on retrofitting around 500 the first year, each dealer will probably only be doing a small handful of installs, they'll be charging top dollar for this. Just like aero kits that are supposed to be around $1250 but go for $2500-3500 installed. So $6000 is a heck of a lot to pay for 37HP. But it's ludicrous to pay all that money for only 22lbs of torque!

Now look at this scenario:
So far, I've only added the Madness intake with the pulley going to be next. According to the dyno charts and from what people have been saying around here, the intake + pulley should give 20HP and more than likely 20lbs of torque. That brings the S up to 183HP (far from the holy grail of 200) but a whopping 175lbs of torque! That's only 2lbs of torque or 1.1% LESS torque than the JCW!!!!

The JCW adds just the pulley, a re-tuned ECU, a new exhaust and different cams (which I admittedly know nothing about). The exhaust is probably all high-end (and from the torque and HP number of the JCW, it's obvious it IS all high-end gain) and the ECU seems to just be responsible for a higher rev limit. So the extra HP that the JCW gets over the intake + pulley seems to be an artificially-inflated number. Increasing the rev limit will increase HP but only in those higher revs. I believe the max HP in the JCW comes at something like 6900 instead of 6000 in the stock. I don't know about you, but I don't want to be revving my MINI to 7000 revs all of the time. And I rarely do take it above 5500 now as it is. So for me and I think most of us, all those extra horses found about 6000 RPMs on the JCW won't do us any good.

Ok, that's all well and good. But what about reliability you ask??? Well consider this:

The JCW kit adds the SAME 15% pulley reduction. The engine, however, stays the same. No new valves or gaskets. Which means MINI and JCW isn't concerned with the extra boost from the pulley blowing any gaskets or anything. Also consider this:

The ECU tuning that JCW provides raises the rev limiter! Which means that MINI and JCW are basically saying that our engines can not only handle more boost, but can rev higher as well! And hgiher revs mean even higher levels of boost. So if one was to the the JCW kit, since most of the HP gains are high end, you would think you'd push the car to its limits often with high amounts of boost and hgiher revs. Since almost all of the S and JCW parts are the same, this doesn't seem to be of any concern to anyone. This makes me feel quite confident about having a pulley installed.

Now as far as driveablility is concerned, unless you regularly redline your MINI, I don't think you'll notice much difference between the JCW MINI and the stock S with just the pulley and the intake. Add an aftermarket exhaust and there might not be ANY discernable difference.

The real clincher is the price. UP TO $6000 for the JCW kit or LESS THAN $700 for the intake + pulley. Which route are you going...I have 11k miles on my S now and I'm going for the pulley next.

Thanks for listening...Cheers!

 

I think you are right, it does not make sense to spend that much money for the JCW kit, I just saw a post by diamond racing that will do the pulley and re-map for 1500 bucks, the mini tunning is in early stages I think is better to wait since more companies will eventually joing the tunning game, I am waiting for Dinan to produce a kit for the mini, 6000 bucks is way over the top, JCW will not have the impact that the clasic mini had since so many new minis will be produced compared to the old one, anyway who cares I am planning to enjoy my car, I plan to keep it until I can give it to my son who is 6YOA.

 

Things that make you say...hmmmmm. Well written and many things to consider.

Doesn't the JCW package offer a new intercooler AND pulley? If its all about the pulley why are they marketing the new intercooler also? Is it larger to offset the additional heat produced at the higher RPMs with the new pulley?



His Chile Red all over / Hers, EB UJ on top

 

very well done!

But, has anyone heard what the JCW kit will do for the MC? And will pricing still be the same?

 

if ytou notice, mostly the Brits think the JCW is the dogs gnashers, probably a national loyalty kind of thing, but is doesn't offer the value.

BTW, I don't think the JCW offers a cam or an intercooler. They may have an intercooler plastic shroud and they do offer a reworked head, but no idea what comes with the head. At the minumum, it has port and flow work; then it could have larger valves, modifed rockers and springs and a cam, all of which could contribute to allowing higher rpm's and breathing better at higher rpm's. But this has not been clarified by any means.

 

What about the remapped ECU and the DSC code?

I was told by one dealer that a pulley upgrade would upset the DSC programming. Any truth to that? Does any of the new ECU software take that into account. I was told that the Evotech upgrade so far does not take the DSC into account with a pulley upgrade.

Ideas?

 

joedude,

The DSC is not affected by the pulley. The EVOTech software at this point is not for the pulley mod, it's for a car without the pulley.

I have the SUperchips software with the pulley upgrade, and I'm still searching for more better ways to do the ECU tuning.

Hope that helps!

Randy
720-841-1002

 

Hey RandyBMC
Your thoughts? Does the JCW kit have a bigger intercooler and is one neccessary with the pulley and ECU upgrade to help keep the temps down? What has been your experience?


BTW Long live Magnaflow, thanks again for setting me up !


His, Chile Red all over / Hers, EB UJ on top.

 

>>Doesn't the JCW package offer a new intercooler AND pulley? If its all about the pulley why are they marketing the new intercooler also? >>>>

There is no new intercooler. Not from JCW anyway. All they offer is a new intercooler COVER. I must admit is does look cool, but $5300 for the "cool" cover????

 

I too love the Magnaflow - but I know that it's not for everyone

As far as my information has gone, the JCW kit does not have a new intercooler. Would it help with the Roots type blower - absolutely. Is it necessary to make horsepower or maintain reliabilty - not really. That said, I'm working on one jointly with another big vendor to try to keep the development costs in check. You all will be the first to find out about it when it's ready!

Here's what the JCW kit consists of according to my info:

15% pulley (nothing else to the supercharger)
JCW cat back exhaust
ECU
Ported head
Drop-in filter element
Badges
Different intercooler plastic piece

The pricing has been all over the map - from $4500 to $6000, and for retro fits it would be an additional cost for the labor.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Randy

 

Well that answers a lot of questions then and is steering my decision. I was thinking it was a bigger intercooler to keep temps down.


His, Chile Red all over / Hers, EB UJ on tom

 

Just came back from my dealer. Word is that it would be AROUND $6000. I got the feeling that it could even be more!!! They were also saying that ordering a new S with the Works package won't be much cheaper. Still in the $5500+ range!!!

 

>>Just came back from my dealer. Word is that it would be AROUND $6000. I got the feeling that it could even be more!!! They were also saying that ordering a new S with the Works package won't be much cheaper. Still in the $5500+ range!!!


I know a lot of people say that the JCW is better because you get the warranty, but at this point you can get 200hp for under $2000 with installation included and still be $4000+ better off. I just don't buy the massive difference in price. Even if the mods blew the engine to smitthereens after 3 years, you could buy a whole new motor with the money you saved and still pocket some money. I know that some people still want it and that is cool, but I can't even come close to justifying the expense. I can't fathom why the few simple mods can cost a 1/3 of the cost of the car. Warranties are great, but they are also limited as well. Anyway, just my two cents worth.

 

Let's wait and see how this kit really performs.. Everything else at this point is speculation.
When I heard the first time about this kit from a friend working for BMW I'd liked the idea of upgrading my MCS to a real Cooper S by the familiy Cooper! Racing history.. yes please, but not for any price.
At the moment tought-provoking for me is the fact that JCW wants to be THE mini-tuner, THE race-mini-pope.. but all they offer until now is an engine-kit, sports seats and alloy wheels. (Almost every other mini tuner offers much more.)
What about a complete suspension system? What about a new brake kit? Do they really track-test their stuff? I'm not sure.. because if they would.. they would offer at least these two things at first!
I've more confidence in tuners like RandyBMC, who really add value to the mini community with his well explained how-to-do-tips and his competent answers on any questions here on the board.
Anyway.. to be honest.. even if JCW would offer a suspension system, I would wait for the Bilstein PSS9 :smile: I'm already saving money for it.. hope it comes out soon!
Just my 2cents

ps. please excuse my mis-spelling sometimes.. I'm not a native english speaker

 

Here is what comes in the Kit as reported in Autoweek.

"Ingredients for the über-Cooper include a supercharger with revised gearing that gives it more whiz and boost. There are also some reworked low-friction internals: hotter cams, a keener ECU, and a shiny new silencer on the muffler aims to reduce exhaust back pressure. Other than a discrete “John Cooper Works” badge, that’s the limit of the changes. The pack can be installed on a new car or retrofitted onto an existing car."

Nothing mentioned about a pulley.

 

vdubdoug,

The reduced gearing they mention on the supercharger is the reduction pulley - that's how they reduced the gearing.

I hope that makes sense.

Randy

 

Randy, that is not quite true. Over in Germany, we are running cars with the ECU and pulley, we will offer it shortly in the US. We are taking our time to make sure there are no long term problems. If anyone upgrade to the pulley and have our Evotech ECU, we will offer an upgrade at a nominal price.

 

Which part isn't quite true? From the JCW information and the available pictures, it does appear to be a 15% reduction pulley - which would be a reduction in the supercharger gearing, spinning it faster at a lower RPM.

As far as the pulley and ECU, I am interested in what you have to offer as far as ECU tuning is concerned. I am researching all possibilites, so a working relationship with someone who has ECU programming that works would be welcomed. Do you have the ability to allow me to demo your software? I have the pulley, and if I understand correctly, you may be saying that you are doing something other than the reduction pulley? If not, and the pulley is what you are using, I would be interested to do an eval on the current programming you have available for the pulley upgrade. Cost will be key as well, as I would like to keep the entire modification affordable.

Feel free to contact me to discuss the possibilities.

Randy
randy@mini-motorsport.com
720-841-1002

 

>>The JCW kit offers 200HP and 177lbs of torque.
>>The stock S offers 163HP and 155lbs of torque.
>>So the Stock S torque is 95.1% of the HP rating while the JCW is only 88.5%.



OK -- not to argure or discuss the figures, but to discuss the physics:

Power = constant * RPM * Torque. In the English units (Torque in Ft-Lbs, Power in SAE Horsepower) you chose to use, the two are numerically equal BY DEFINITION at about 5200 RPM (as you can see from any of the Dyno plots posted by Randy or Helix or Blue Thunder or Andy or ...).

So the ONLY way to get more HP is to get the engine to rev higher. I'll make a wager that the 95% vs 88 % comes about because the JCW mods include an increase in red line increase to about 7300 RPM.

Tom

 

You can increase the torque to get more HP (at a given RPM.) You are correct, though, in noting that a lot of the kits are simply raising redline to get to the magic 200hp.

Jeff

 

Very well done!

 

keep in mind that the torque and hp figures are peak values and that they are not at the same rpm. Hp typically peaks greater than 6800 rpm, while torque peaks at 4500. It would not be unusual for the relationship of the peak values to differ after a mod.

 

>>So the ONLY way to get more HP is to get the engine to rev higher. I'll make a wager that the 95% vs 88 % comes about because the JCW mods include an increase in red line increase to about 7300 RPM.
>>
>> Tom


W3IwI,

I agree with you 100%. That's EXACTLY the point I was trying to make. Thanks for clearing that up. I was trying to say that JCW really DIDN'T super up the MINI S all that much. They added a decent amount of torque and used a higher redline to get the 200 horses. THat's why I was saying the aftermarket route is so mcuh cheaper and easier. Just adding the pulley will give you most of the torque of the JCW and the pulley + intake + exhaust will probably equal or beat the torque JCW. ANd for a fraction of the cost.

My main point actually WAS that JCW "artificially" inflated the horses and that's why the horses are disproportionately high compared to the torque numbers.

 

I am very interested in getting the pulley myself but RandyBMC said it will make the engine run hotter and thereby possibly affecting the reliability of the car. What they really need to add is a new intercooler to help compensate. It's my everyday car so i'm gonna steer clear of the pulley for now. I think more of you should be extra cautious about getting a new pulley

 

I think you may have misunderstood me. It does produce more heat in the intake charge, but the pulley does not cause the car to run hotter. I was saying that to take full advantage of the pulley, you would need a bigger intercooler. I hope that clears it up! Obviously, with all of the research and development myself, JCW and Helix have done, the pulley is fine by itself reliability wise without a bigger intercooler - it's just that there's more potential there.

I hope that clears it up - let me know if you have any other questions.

Randy