an interesting thing to think about....and very true. But also think about the fact that a filter with a couple hundred will flow better than one with a few thousand (still dirty). ....again something to think about. He did state that it was still rather clean, so it may have had nothing to do with the testing.

Obehave....thanks for taking the time to test them and for sharing your findigs with us

 

 

For people coming in on this thread, You might want to make your post clearer by posting the numbers for each intake. This will make things easier to read and not have to look at the graph for awhile to figure out what is what. I.e. First graph: Alta intake = 180 HP and 152.7 TQ HDI = 185.4 HP and 157 TQ.
Second graph: Alta intake = 185.4 HP and 157 TQ HDI = 189.9 HP and 162.4 TQ.

But all in all, glade to see people are posting numbers on the new intake!

Garrett

 

Good points. Hope I fixed it up so it makes more sense.

Friggin' noob

 

Do you have any other mods?

mb

 

I think you're confusing people. The second graph, as I understood it, was a comparison of the HDI on two different days, not Alta vs. HDI.

 

That's why I asked the question.

 

Did I get it all straightened out in the 1st post?

If not just ask.

 

Both graphs compare both the Alta and the HDI on two different days correct? Not sure how I am confusing people, just trying to have it make more sense for everyone else!

Garrett

 

Ok now I understand, the second graph is the HDI and only the HDI installed comparing it to the run on the hotter day! It is much clearer then before!

Garrett

 

Clear as MUD

 

Decent post Thanks ..I think I wanted the HDI more to begin with, now this confirms my choice. and It's a cleaner look.

 

M.U.D. = Mini Under Discussion.

I was there... it's all pretty crystal to me.


To help clarify: Obehave's Mini had the Alta intake first. First run on the first chart is with the Alta @ 180 hp and 157.0 lbs/ft. See the RED line on the graph.


The second run is 3 hours later (SAME DAY) after the WMS HDI box and powerflex engine mounts were installed. The ambient temp was 12 degrees warmer than the morning run in red. Second run is with the Webb HDI 185.4 hp and 157 lbs/ft.


The second chart: The BLUE RUN (listed as Dyno run 5) is the next day with no additional mods, only the ambient temp was 20 degrees colder. The Red run (listed as Dyno run 3) is actually the Blue run on the first day. It's one and the same dyno run. It was there so that you can see the effect that ambient temps really make on the dyno.

For me...the bottom line is this... the HDI box makes better numbers than the Alta. It clearly made more power than the Alta, even if air coming in was a bit warmer! Is it an OMG, what a great new boost in power type of increase? No. Is it part of the big picture in helping the engine make power? Absolutely. Not only that, but it looks good, it's well made...and the price point is right. What's not to love?

Oh, and for those wondering, YES, the M7 front strut bar will clear the HDI box, however, you may need to swap the 2 middle fasteners on the top of the box with some flatter button style fasteners to prevent any rubbing between shiny unhood parts.

 

here is what I find interesting: right around 63-6400 the alta takes a dive, hence its hp peak is lower, though the torque peaks are the same. that rpm area is a common spot for a drop due to timing retard. not saying this is the case, but a bit of knock will do exactly that. I'm wouldn't be so sure there is a significant difference until you can demonstrate that the drop is repeatable for the Alta.

 

obe, thanks for sharing! You know full-well that doing so on NAM in the past has led to some rather feisty dialog, so kudos for still doing so...

The guys over on the PowerFlex forums somehow got wind of your first chart, and they're using it to validate those yellow thingies... that they do indeed make hp!



Heck, as you know, I've got those inserts also, so I'm not knocking them...

On a more serious note, I would venture to guess that Randy's intake will show even more of a delta under driving conditions; that is with the hood/bonnet closed, when heat really does become an issue...

 

I would say the drop at the end is knock. During the testing of our new IC, the Dr. has been sending me some graphs of timing. what is interesting that right around that area would see a 2-5 degree retard carried to redline from knock. This didn't matter which IC was being run or which run. It would sometimes do it the first run then a couple runs later., but skip a couple. This is with all other things staying the same. So 2-5 degrees can really kill power and torque.

Is this what happened here?? Maybe?? Yes this wasn't a truely definative test(with one run each), but something to keep in mind for the final comparo. Another thing to keep in mind is......BIM-COM data!

This would be a great way to know what exactly is going on. Esspecially since this intake, uses a box (like they all do) is rather sealed from the engine (Like most are) and uses a foam filter (like ours) it should make the same or similar HP. The only difference is filter size, and how it is oiled. In fact for this test, to eliminate a variable, we will supply an intake, and a unoiled filter. Un-oiled will be best because of the variable to how much oil is sprayed on.

Again, when this test happens, we will supply the parts needed in order to perform it accurately.

 

John;
I watched about 7 different MINIs dyno over the 2 day period. They all demonstrated that to varying degrees regardless of mod or intake.
Randy's supposition seems a sound one.
The fans that were being used may not have been sufficient and at higher rpms there was a fuel dump. This was very obvious since all of the cars farted black smoke just short of the rev limiter. 63-6400 rpm would be right there.
Could there have been a retarding at that time? Absolutely.
Like a pinhead I forgot to bring my Windows laptop home from work and so couldn't run the BIM-COM.
My humiliation is now public
As noted since this was coming out of my pocket the runs were limited. Too limited to be considered a definitive test.
Hopefully I never presented this info as such.

I just wanted to brag a bit and get a dialog started on this intake.
I will be awaiting more thorough test results along with everybody else.

Personal experience though is that I like it and I can assure you there is not loss in performance over the ALTA.
I'll let the more technerdical among us do more stringent analysis.

 

I'm either brave or stupid
Been very civilized so far. That's a bit scary

Honestly. Totally subjective impression is a slight change at lower RPMs.
I have 2 guesses.
Wish I had taken pics but will later. Filter and pipe shape and length. The Uni in the HDI is quite long and thin. The pipe is also longer in the air box. This will make a taller, smaller diameter(in the filter) air column. Compared to a shorter more squat air column you get with the ALTA. A stacked, narrow column will react to change quicker. Makes more sense in my head than I can explain.
Andy's HAI has also shown that this same thing(taller air column) can be a restriction. We'll see.

Guess # 2.. It's all in my head

Filter and pipe pic. Stolen from Doug who was at the pulley party this weekend.

 

Thanks Mr I have more HP than you do

I do try

 

It was actually 2 runs each but they only print the best of the 2.
They may be more used to Honda guys just looking for bragging rights than data who••s like everyone here

Now that I know the Abacus guys I plan to go back with the BIM-COM and test this.

 

obehave,

Can you measure the height of the HDI box? From the bottom where it meets the stock platic bottom piece to the top of the box and bolt? I would like to know if this will clear the m7 strut bar!

Garrett

 

obehave, scratch that idea out! I just found my answer out from randys pulley party this past weekend! Here is the link, scroll down if your interested:

http://web.mac.com/wxsquid/iWeb/Site/Last%20Roll.html

Garrett

 

You said how it feels more reactive, and more responsive. Don't forget about the motor mount inserts you installed. That is exactly what they do. Since they remove the "slop" in the soft rubber mounts, when you punch it, that torque goes right into twisting the wheels instead of motor.

I only mention this because the longer filter, wouldn't make this change. The Surface area of the filter, and volume is what makes a difference.

 

Quite likely and not something I didn't consider.
My absolutely and totally subjective opinion though is that there is more to it than that.

On that note though is this little factoid I didn't mention earlier.

I have always had noisy linkage since I can remember. Especially the 1-2 shift. With the reduced motion of the engine it is now reduced. Not gone but better.
Happy chappy.

 

Not to change the subjet, but is it worth it for the upgraded bushings for the motor mounts?

Garrett