Drivetrain MCS vs. RX-7
pug poo picker-upper
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: California
In keeping with the NAM Site Guidelines the discussion about banning and banned members has been removed.
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6th Gear
Joined: May 2005
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Originally Posted by saifa
Spoken like a true bench racer....this is why the RX7 will spank you man. Your doing to much reading and internet performance math. Get out there and learn about cars...plain and simple. I'm not trying to insult you but it's rather obvious you don't know a heck of a lot. ...
4th Gear
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 317
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From: Toronto
I agree with you. Like I said no insult intended. Just don't be to quick to buy into what everyone is selling you. Even the climate you live in can affect your cars performance.
I just have met a lot of fellas such as yourself (including me at one point!!) that wanted "the fastest car" or whatever. If that is your goal then great. Best of luck but for your own sake...learn about cars first!
Make sure you are even prepared to go that route. Consider things such as the financial aspect, ride quality, fuel somsumption, warranty issues, insurance hastles....etc. Your list looks ok but consider how much $$$ is there already. You still have not done your suspension and brakes yet which IMO are just as important as power.
I just have met a lot of fellas such as yourself (including me at one point!!) that wanted "the fastest car" or whatever. If that is your goal then great. Best of luck but for your own sake...learn about cars first!
Make sure you are even prepared to go that route. Consider things such as the financial aspect, ride quality, fuel somsumption, warranty issues, insurance hastles....etc. Your list looks ok but consider how much $$$ is there already. You still have not done your suspension and brakes yet which IMO are just as important as power.
Banned
Joined: Jan 2006
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Originally Posted by ingsoc
A few things. First of all, you can't add parts like that. Expect 1/2 [conservative] to 2/3 [liberal] of their sum, or you will be shocked when you get significantly less. The free-er everything before the head flows, the closer a MODIFIED head comes to becoming the bottleneck again. Given the configuration of our factory heads, there is only so much freeing up that can be done without compromising the integrity of the piece. In plain words: the more pulleys and free flowing components you add, the less power is left to tap.
Second of all, the FTR head makes 30 hp with a redline of 8000 rpm, or so it seems from posts. Again, don't be surprised by that. I run 8150 rpm, and my head makes more power up high, too, with a raised limiter- but it's not apples to apples up there.
Last, don't believe everything that every vendor tells you or you will be grossly disappointed. Period. Everyone who does more than the basics gets disappointed sometime.
Second of all, the FTR head makes 30 hp with a redline of 8000 rpm, or so it seems from posts. Again, don't be surprised by that. I run 8150 rpm, and my head makes more power up high, too, with a raised limiter- but it's not apples to apples up there.
Last, don't believe everything that every vendor tells you or you will be grossly disappointed. Period. Everyone who does more than the basics gets disappointed sometime.
I may be new here but why wouldn't you believe the vendors?
6th Gear
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,383
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From: Houston
Originally Posted by coopa25
I may be new here but why wouldn't you believe the vendors?
For example, do you actually listen to car salesmen when they say that leasing is better than buying? In my mind, if anybody is trying to convince me of something, it's probably for their own good.
In the case of vendors, they want to make money and they have to convince you that their products are a better bang for the buck.
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,253
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From: NY NY
there are multiple instances of similar products being offered by different vendors: like heads, intakes, chips, etc. all with performance claims. There is also this naive notion that you only have to fork over and bolt 'em on to get huge hp.
in my opinion, you could substitute just about any of those products with not much difference. Where you are going to make power is with old fashioned tuning done to your specific car. Plug and play will get you maybe 75% of the potential your hardware can ultimately deliver.
in my opinion, you could substitute just about any of those products with not much difference. Where you are going to make power is with old fashioned tuning done to your specific car. Plug and play will get you maybe 75% of the potential your hardware can ultimately deliver.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 56
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From: SoCal
Originally Posted by jazmini
Overall though, I've heard the RX7 is one of the most reliable engines around, being a rotary design which has less moving parts and all.
4th Gear
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 317
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From: Toronto
Originally Posted by coopa25
I may be new here but why wouldn't you believe the vendors?
Say for instance you have 3 of the exact same MCS as far as year, style and mods etc... I will put money on it that none of those cars will dyno the same numbers. It just works that way.
A product will dyno differently at different shops and on different dyno's A shop of higher elevation (say Webb for example) may have different results for the same product than at a shop of lower elevation due to temperature differences, air pressure or whatever (someone help me with what I am trying to say).
Also any vendor wants to make money plain and simple. There is nothing wrong with that. Some crappy vendors will push parts on you simply because they are in their higher profit bracket even though the parts may be crap.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 56
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From: SoCal
you guys need one of these
the rx7 has better weight distribution, better suspension setup, better aerodynamics, stronger motor(yet unreliable). Probably the only place a mini can take an rx7 is in the mountains or at an autox. Maybe the track. BTW, anyone know Roy? red mini cooper s with JCW supercharger, I think autopower cage, ssr comps, te37 cups for the track and sounds like a jet hauling down the straight at the streets of willow springs
the rx7 has better weight distribution, better suspension setup, better aerodynamics, stronger motor(yet unreliable). Probably the only place a mini can take an rx7 is in the mountains or at an autox. Maybe the track. BTW, anyone know Roy? red mini cooper s with JCW supercharger, I think autopower cage, ssr comps, te37 cups for the track and sounds like a jet hauling down the straight at the streets of willow springs
6th Gear
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,383
Likes: 0
From: Houston
Originally Posted by saifa
Say for instance you have 3 of the exact same MCS as far as year, style and mods etc... I will put money on it that none of those cars will dyno the same numbers. It just works that way.
A product will dyno differently at different shops and on different dyno's A shop of higher elevation (say Webb for example) may have different results for the same product than at a shop of lower elevation due to temperature differences, air pressure or whatever (someone help me with what I am trying to say).
A product will dyno differently at different shops and on different dyno's A shop of higher elevation (say Webb for example) may have different results for the same product than at a shop of lower elevation due to temperature differences, air pressure or whatever (someone help me with what I am trying to say).
In my opinion though, the least that can be done is a baseline and a delta, whether it be dyno numbers or even other measures such as IAT, slalom tests, braking tests, whatever, but I guess there's no reason to do tests when people will buy products regardless.
I'm not too sure what any of this has to do with an RX-7 versus a MCS though. I think he'll have you beat on any course, but I do love my 7s so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
4th Gear
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 317
Likes: 0
From: Toronto
Originally Posted by saifa
You still have not done your suspension and brakes yet which IMO are just as important as power.
Originally Posted by ChiliCooperS
Actually if you read my signature, I have.
Even if it has an upgrade damper you'll still want a little more stiffness to hook and lay that tire.
Sorry I don't mean to keep beating on you Chili...I am trying to help you out. This is what i mean as far as beating on cars like the RX7. They may be in a different class but if the MCS is tuned ALL AROUND then keeping up and passing (on the twisties especially) is possible.
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6th Gear
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Midwest
I have the JCW BBK, and it is a HUGE difference over stock. The only other investment I might make is a TCE, or something like that on the brakes. You are absolutely correct though on the suspension. I stated that in an earlier post. It is so-so in a JCW TK car, but above that HP range I am going to get a new suspension system. Probably the Koni Yellows, with H-Sports, and both H-Sport swaybars like I mentioned earlier. There is again a HUGE difference between that setup and that of the JCW. You can feel a GREAT deal of body roll in the JCW, but with AGOKART's setup there was almost none at all. I appreciate you trying to help, and I want you to keep helping, but I don't want to have to keep reposting info I have already presented.
Thanks
Mikey
Thanks
Mikey
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6th Gear
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Midwest
Originally Posted by zeep
you guys need one of these
the rx7 has better weight distribution, better suspension setup, better aerodynamics, stronger motor(yet unreliable). Probably the only place a mini can take an rx7 is in the mountains or at an autox. Maybe the track. BTW, anyone know Roy? red mini cooper s with JCW supercharger, I think autopower cage, ssr comps, te37 cups for the track and sounds like a jet hauling down the straight at the streets of willow springs
the rx7 has better weight distribution, better suspension setup, better aerodynamics, stronger motor(yet unreliable). Probably the only place a mini can take an rx7 is in the mountains or at an autox. Maybe the track. BTW, anyone know Roy? red mini cooper s with JCW supercharger, I think autopower cage, ssr comps, te37 cups for the track and sounds like a jet hauling down the straight at the streets of willow springs
Had a talk with a person today though and for right now it doesn't look like I'll need to, they stated a number around 230whp, in a non-twincharged car. I can't present any further info other than "It will change the way people tune their MINIs."
Originally Posted by ChiliCooperS
I am going to get a new suspension system. Probably the Koni Yellows, with H-Sports, and both H-Sport swaybars like I mentioned earlier. There is again a HUGE difference between that setup and that of the JCW. You can feel a GREAT deal of body roll in the JCW, but with AGOKART's setup there was almost none at all. I appreciate you trying to help, and I want you to keep helping, but I don't want to have to keep reposting info I have already presented.
Thanks
Mikey
Thanks
Mikey
u might need control arms in the rear to dail in a bit more - camber, add camber plates up front will help you dail in the camber up front as well
you might consider also a lightened flywheel and uprated clutch with the lsd, that way you get faster spool up on the straight up (lose weight to the engine!)
then put on some 17' ce28ns or super forged light weight wheels, on some r-comps...
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,719
Likes: 1
From: New Brunswick, NJ
Originally Posted by ChiliCooperS
I may end up doing that. Had a talk with a person today though and for right now it doesn't look like I'll need to, they stated a number around 230whp, in a non-twincharged car. I can't present any further info other than "It will change the way people tune their MINIs."
Had a talk with a person today though and for right now it doesn't look like I'll need to, they stated a number around 230whp, in a non-twincharged car. I can't present any further info other than "It will change the way people tune their MINIs."
Banned
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 17
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Originally Posted by ingsoc
Is that someone a vendor? Again, think about this: what reason do they have not to be [ahem] liberal with numbers if they can take your money before you ever get it tested? IF this 'option' includes the standard parts that are out there now, I'll ask you: why have those kind of numbers rarely been seen? The answer is kinda easy... it's incredibly difficult!
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,719
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From: New Brunswick, NJ
Originally Posted by coopa25
I am new so please forgive me. How much do I have to spend to make over 200 horse power? You seem to post a lot so I take it you know how to do it. Any suggestions? Thank you
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Originally Posted by ingsoc
200 crank hp, as in like a JCW? Or 200 wheel hp? There's a huge difference [about 25 crank hp more if we're talking wheel hp...]
6th Gear
Joined: Nov 2005
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From: Houston
Originally Posted by coopa25
I guess wheel hp since that is what most people are using. Correct?
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6th Gear
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Midwest
To get around the JCW using AM parts you're probably looking at around 1500-2000 with install and stuff. It all depends on what u get.
I know this is kinda off topic, but how did you get your background in your Create-your-own Southpark Character ingsoc?
Mikey
I know this is kinda off topic, but how did you get your background in your Create-your-own Southpark Character ingsoc?
Mikey
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6th Gear
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Midwest
Originally Posted by krazyivan831
Depends on your model year. If you have an '05 / '06, I think it's something like 15% pulley, CAI, cat-back and ECU upgrade. For '02-'04, a lot more... Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
6th Gear
Joined: Nov 2005
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From: Houston
Originally Posted by ChiliCooperS
you's be right about the 05/06 thingy. Don't think it's much more with the earlier models though. A crank pulley, though highly debated, can get u some easy horsepower and low end torque/acceleration.
Originally Posted by ChiliCooperS
I know this is kinda off topic, but how did you get your background in your Create-your-own Southpark Character ingsoc?[IMG]images/smilies/roll.gif[/IMG][IMG]images/smilies/lol.gif[/IMG]