here is a question concerning tc on a car that is run at wot for long periods of time. i like to drive my car on twisty roads with long periods of 3rd gear and 4th gear wot (4500-7000 rpm's). to me i think this is what this car is best at. i am wondering is tc too much for this kind of driving? my car has a flowed head, 15+4 pulley setup, cai, mth, free flow exhaust and suspension upgrades. would a 40 shot of nos be a better way to go for that occasional need for better pull from 0-80 mph? how about a little input from those with nitrous and those with tc.

thanks in advance.

 

keep it on the track! personally id go with he twincharge. i know u said people that have them but im just giving u my opinion. why would u want to push a button to get power when u can have it all the time with a twincharge. but like u said u drive hard. if u cant drive a mini hard with the twincharge on it whats the point in getting it. i think it would be fine, as long as eveerything is setup right.

 

I had same concerns,but after talking to Eric at Helix,i decided to go the TC route this spring.

 

Keep your budget in mind..

If you go the TWincharge way, unless you are building up your internals (especially pistons), w/ your current setup a TC can be bad for your car...
You can keep the exhaust and suspension upgrades, but everything else must be changed, or you'll end up overboosting thus blowing your motor. Unless of course you want to add another 1K-2K for having PISTONS installed.

I agree w/ jammin636 as far as not having to "push a button" plus w/ NOS, I hate the idea of having to refill. Although this is a much cheaper route.

As far as driveability, it will totally change and you will need to "re-learn" how to drive the car.

///Gilbert

 

the thing that worries me about the turbo is can the motor handle the extra heat for long periods of time, is anybody tracking a tc car with good results? i have no problem with forged pistons, at 50k miles i am going to change to forged pistons, as far as nos, the venom kit only kicks in when the peddle is pushed to the floor, it works off of the thottle body, no buttons, just arm the system and if you want the nos push it to the floor when you let up the nos flow stops. i know it sounds like i am trying to convince myself to go nos, but really i would rather go tc. the problem is i can not turn the turbo off if it becomes a issue. from what m7 is telling me i can get about 30-40 pulls from a 10lb bottle at 40hp shot.

thanks for the input

 

I know of two people who have attempted this, and either has yet to get their car on the track because of so many problems. Personaly I think it's a mistake, but we'll see how they do this year.

 

i say go with a twincharge.

 

Is that what you run?
On the track?

 

you should probably get rid of the 4% overdrive crank, and maybe even go back to a stock SC pully. The point of the TC is to keep the SC running where it is most efficient, and because it's a roots, that is at the lower RPM range (of the SC, not the motor). Please, if you want to do this deep a mod on you car, read Supercharged! by Corky Bell. There's a review in the, you guessed it, review section! But a TC set up is way beyond a simple bolt on, and understanding the whole system is a must if you're going to make an informed decision.

Matt

 

His sig says 185hp...i hope thats not TC'd

 

With a 19% over reduction of the supercharger you should see around 17psi correct? At red line the supercharger puts out a good bit of heat. At this same psi, if the supercharger was to have stock or larger than stock pulley and a turbo was added in to reach 17psi, you would have lower intake temps. A turbo is so much more efficient than the roots type blower.

I think that a tc kit set at a low boost setting could add 40 more horsepower and be reliable. That is however in a perfect world.

 

I drive like this as well and the TC has only made it so I get to back off the throttle a little cause I am going faster due to the power diff....so i have to brake more...but other than that the my TC is SOOOO much fun....

 

I have driven my twincharged MINI from Michigan to the Dragon, and to Minnesota.. No drivability issues whatsoever. and I do drive at it's limit.

 

A 19% pulley'd car had much hotter intake temperatures thena twincharged car on the dyno so you should be okay. Maximus has driven his car in 90 degree heat and stuck in traffic and has had no problems with the temperature, so if you are tracking your car, you should be fine considering you are always moving and getting air to the intercooler!

 

maximus and tuls,
how many miles have you logged on the tc setup?

 

From what I understand T/C cars run quite reliably - so long as the boost isn't cranked up. Its when the owners keep pushing it... wanting more of that 'good thing' that problems occur.

Assuming reliable boost components/regulation, proper tune, adequate fuel delivery & cooling for WOT/track sessions what would be the concern(s)?

I guess I'm thinking ANYone tracking car will be running higher than 'normal' rpm. What comes to mind immediately is cooling & proper oil delivery... I just want to know where folks think 'regular' track prep would stop & T/C specific track prep would begin.

Presuming the information to date is correct:
Twin charge offers:
- cooler AIT at equivalent boost vs 15% or 19% pulley.
- spins the S/C at lower rpm
- no significant weight gain

onasled,

You spend quite a bit of time on the track, so folks will respect your perspective (even if they don't agree with it ). What specific concerns would you have? Please don't pull your punches... The community won't benefit from non-discussion. If any venders (of T/C kits) are concerned or interested they should chime in

 

Intake temps seem to be lower, yes. The thing is, though, boost can be just as deadly. Proper tuning must take into account the ambient temperatures encountered [cooler air -> more boost -> more stress]. It must also take into account engine load. An engine flat out [or at any percentage throttle] produces more boost when climbing a hill, for instance, due to increased load on the engine. There's a definite art to tuning, and anyone considering one must definately evaluate boost in many different conditions, because some well-known cars have had failure, for instance Maximusmini's car [which he has said was running out-of-the-box from SPI boost levels]. Maybe some cars just can't take that 'stock' boost. It remains to be known.

 

ing, This is no different than on any reduced pulley car. And when one considers that the boost is both hotter & increased the pullied car would be more risky than T/C. We agree on the tuning. But tune is important even on stock car.

 

I've logged about 10k miles.

 

I've logged about 10k miles on the tc setup.

 

not yet, but by December i will have a tc kit.

 

I truly know nothing about the twin charged, at least nothing compared to most here.
You ask about racing and that is where my passion, and small minded knowledge is really based. My theory is to arrive at a track with a fast but most importantly dependable car. The very last thing I want to do is arrive at a race or DE event and end up sitting in the pits because the car is not running. To date, the only two people I know who have attempted this have spent no time actually on the track due to problems.
Would I get a TC? Maybe down the road when I see that in fact they can handle a season of track days without any failures to the car at all.

Maximusmini just posted in the road racing thread that he had just blown his second clutch. Not something I want to have to deal with myself.
I'll wait and see what I can do without it before I think about getting it.
To be very honest, a 3 day Skip Barber school would be a better way for me to spend my $$ if I want a faster car ...

 

Onasled is right on the money. "Tightening the nut behind the wheel" is pretty much ALWAYS the best way to improve times, speed through corners, dependability and tire life! (not to mention brakes). Besides training on how to use what you've got, understanding what you've got, and how mods change them is very important too. Hence my previous post to the tuning book (I've reviewed two in the reviews section, both are good, and the other covers turbos and their selection as well). If I'd been smart and read before spending, my list of mods would have been different, and definantly done in a different order.....

Matt

 

ON mine I have about 8 k...some of the TCs I have seen and or worked one have as many as 30k

I agree highly with Doc Ob about driving school...it's the one thing I ALWAYS tell people...there's a difference between driving fast, and know how to...

I have a 7500 rev limit...and although I shift ussually around 7200 there are times I like to take her up to the limit...just crusiing for about 5 mins in 5th WOT here's a pic...

ok I am not sure about RPM accually...I wasn't looking...I was driving......but it was somewhere around that...for most of that pull...6th just seems to loose power...heh heh

 

WOOO!!!!! did you take this while you were driving? or was there a passenger photographer involved :P