I agree with everything you've said prior to this part...But could you elaborate on this part?

 

If the gears are closer and in 1st you accelerate only to 32 instead of 45, and 2nd to 60, instead of 70 with the same amount of rpm, it's going to take much less time. By the time you get to shift to 3rd, then i'm almost in 4th. Yes, i have to shift one more gear to reach the same speed, but the rpms will remain in a much narrower range between shifts making for more torque to the ground. So, it would seem that 1st and 2nd are going to be much quicker. Maye, I don't know what you man by "hook up".

 

Yes, yes, yes....I understand all that. But what about traction? If you're spinning with tall gear ratio already under street conditions, wouldn't shorter gearing just exasperate the condition by amplifying torque? I'm just a designer who wished he'd went to engineering school right now Help me understand this...

 

This where the LSD and correct tires come in enabling the car to put the torque down to the wheels with the most traction.
The mini with the fastest posted 1/4 mile times on NAM for a superchargered only car is an 05 without LSD. I am sure driver technique/skill has a lot to do with maintaining traction, but if you can then gearing sure helps to speed things up.

 

" the rpms will remain in a much narrower range between shifts making for more torque to the ground."

this would be true for a close ratio gearbox, typically a hot item if your car has a narrow power band. I suppose changing the overall drive ratio does squeeze the speeds per gear together, but really the only way to get a closer ratio box is to change the individual gear gear sets.
the usual practice would be to close up the ratios for better (narrow) power band usage then set the overall drive ratio so your practical top speed matches your top gear top speed.

What is being achieved here is the top speed is being reduced to a reachable 140 instead of a theoretical 160, effectively giving you a 6 speed trans instead of a 5 speed box with overdrive. similar to closing up the ratios, but at the expense of a possibly too low first gear. 6th also has a less than 1:1 ratio, so the gearing/torque usefullness is reduced

 

Peace,
I picked up the car from Eric last night. Helix installed the final drive, a stage 3 clutch, and the new Mini Madness front control arms.
There is definitely a huge difference. Haven't been able to really get into it because the clutch has to broken in, but it's definitely geared down and the car is much faster. In 6th gear at 75 MPH cruising is right arount 3800 RPM, so it should still be running in closed loop mode. And it pulls in and from every gear.
The downside is that there is a definite whine. It's very pronounced and it's coming from right under the front of the driver. This is definitely a mod for the track car and those who want speed and power over comfort.
Also, the front control arms offer a surprisingly different driving expereince. Handling is much more crisp and accurate.

 

3800 in 6th...nice. That's a huge difference that would be perfect for the track. A bit too high for the street, especially if you spend any amount of time on the highway. Gas mileage is going to go way down on the highway but if you spend most of your time on secondary roads, the new gearing might not matter as much since you can just keep it in a higher gear for better economy.

 

lets see some track times, or 0-60 and get an idea about the straight cut gears

 

Unfortunately, the tracks around here are closed for the winter. I do have the Nology laptop dyno software which does record times. I haven't quite figured out how to set it up, but i'll work on it and see what happens.
Traction is not so much down low. There can be a lot of spin in 1st and 2nd. The initial reason in going to to Eric was for a clutch replacement. The stage 2 only lasted 12K. After a couple track days, the drag strip, and the normal high impact driving, the only thing left was dust. This one we hope will last much longer.

 

Practicing he launch can be a very expensive technique. Outside of stickier tires, any suggestions? The drag is not necessarily what the car is being built for, but i would like to know what kind of times are possible with this setup. At this point driver technique is the what needs building.

 

If you have Quaife, it does whine/buzz quite a bit. I no longer notice it unless I'm listening for it.

I can see the benifit of the closer ratio. Rally cars take advantage of various gearing for different circuit depending on course's top speed. If the fastest the course will allow is a few 60mph stretches, then it doesn't make sense to have the top three gears not be used.

 

I happened to be at Helix last Tues to talk to Eric. I saw Purple's car on the lift with tranny guts everywhere. Interesting looking gears compared to OEM. I'd love to hear how it feels on the track when they open in the spring.

 

The car has had a quaife for a while. If the quaife whines, I've never noticed it. This is a high pitched whine that is very pronounced. I don't think that one day i won't notice this anymore. It can be heard over anything else in or out of the car. I don't think it's as loud outside the car as it is inside. I am looking into sound deadening measures that can be taken to lessen it.

After taking a ride today, the grin on my face was pretty outstanding. The final drive makes the power more usable, but it is a definite compromise when it comes to highway drivability and cruising. With this, fuel economy can potentially suffer even more than just the fact that the gears are closer because its really hard to keep my foot off the accelerator. It's definitley one of the most noticable changes.

I would like to thank Eric and the folks at Helix for taking on the project. He was a little hesitant about the whole thing. Job well done.

 

I meant to post this earlier, but late is better than never, right? I left off where we had to fight the Reverse gear off the pinion, which turned out to be the only persistent one. The other pinion's gears came off like buddah. Reconstructing the pinions took some carful placement of gears on the bench, and a little helping hand from the remains of JLM's exploded gearbox: we used his gearsets as guides for how easily they should snap in and out of gear, as well as synchro resisance.



And yes, Cosmic, we did put lube on the gears when reconstructing



We re-installed the gears without much problem: they must be pressed in simultaneously to make them fit into the box. After checking that the trans went into all gears, we just dropped the box back in the car and were left with very few optional parts.



Because the car had a new clutch, I was careful on the extended test drive. Once the clutch was bedded, I did some roll-on WOT runs. Well Msfitoy was correct in his conjecture that traction would be a problem in first gear. Even with the Quaife, it was pointless to do sudden throttle-mashing accelerations: the tires would just incinerate. With careful application of the throttle in first gear (like rolling into it), I could get the car moving quite quickly and in a controlled manner. Second gear also has to be applied gingerly. Again rolling the throttle on is the best way for traction. Once I got the technique down, I must say that the acceleration of this car was bordering on ferocious. This is a highly modified car, which has recorded one of, if not the highest non-turbo/nitrous pulls on our dyno, and is showed. But this last modification was the one that turned it from just another modded MINI to something special. The low-end acceleration rivals my TurboKompressor car, with more immediate acceleration. Where my car accelerates like you would imagine a turbo/supercharged car does (not really laggy, but not immediate), Cosmic's car has instant torque. But as I said, this means that you have to use the throttle judiciously for best acceleration.

The big tradeoff for this setup is the noise: it's there. I mean there. I felt like Rickard Rydell driving a BTCC touring car. In fact I was weaving through traffic at terrifying speeds, flipping off the competition as I passed them, with my straight-cut gears whining away. Of course I slowed down when I picked up the customer at the train station.

It's no small job, and not cheap (figure about $2700 installed), but if your goal is to leave other MINIs in your wake, this will do it, period.

 

[quote=Helix13mini]I meant to post this earlier, but late is better than never, right? I left off where we had to fight the Reverse gear off the pinion, which turned out to be the only persistent one. The other pinion's gears came off like buddah. Reconstructing the pinions took some carful placement of gears on the bench, and a little helping hand from the remains of JLM's exploded gearbox: we used his gearsets as guides for how easily they should snap in and out of gear, as well as synchro resisance.

Looks liek the same stuff on those donuts I used to eat down at helix!!!

Nice WORK eric

 

Same stuff!

 

MMMMM tASTY

 

Very .... very nice....... I'm also glad to see the factory roof rack as I have mine on also..... would it be possible to post an audio track of the "noise"?

TIA, Bob

 

Is there a gear kit that replicates the 05 box rather than the more aggressive gearing?

 

I'll see what i can do to sample the sound, but i'm sure if you listen to any tractor driving down the road... that whining sound emanating from the transmission. That's it. I may be driving through Atlanta next week, you can hear it firsthand. By then though we will have done some soundproofing, so it will be better.

 

Is the 05 is a slightly lower bottom end gearing or a closER ratio gear box...or something in between?

 

what about this? Looks less agressive

http://new.minimania.com/web/Item/NM.../InvDetail.cfm

 

Those gears are more than the complete install with parts that was done at Helix or did I miss Something.

 

Gearing is a little bit closer together, but mostly just shifted lower overall. I haven't seen any '05 boxes on www.car-part.com yet, but '02-'04 MCS boxes go for $1000-$1500.

 

Those may be less aggressive. It may be the same as the Quaiffe gears sold in Europe. From what i was told, there were some problems with actually getting the gears to fit in the box.