Torque * rpm/[a constant] equals hp.

This means that torque can go up SIGNIFICANTLY, lower in the power band [low rpm], and still *peak* hp would be unaffected whatsoever. See R1 Kid's dyno below... This is what we sometimes fail to notice on a dyno plot. With the MCS's, torque stays nearly flat from 3k rpm on, I believe. HP continues to climb, though, because rpm steadily does. Now, if the TB added 10 lb ft torque down low, from 60-70 lb ft [both just hypothetically], at a given rpm [like 3k], you would not notice much of an hp difference. HP would climb like 1/6 higher, but it still would not approach the peak number, so the peak number would not change. Remember, our rpms can go past 6k at the high end, which is twice the factor used at 3k, so at 6k, you'll see nearly twice the hp number. Simply doubling your rev count with a flat torque curve has an equivalent hp effect as does doubling your torque at any given rpm. Peak HP withstanding, though, you can see a significant change in torque lower down, and this kind of torque you will feel.

What L8rg8r is relaying is a noticeable improvement in low-end torque [proportionally more air flows through a semi-open TB at lower angles - that much is geometry...envision the difference in area contained in the outer 1/4 of a circle versus that in the inner 1/4]. It is there for anyone who drives with a larger TB to see. Don't criticize him...he's right. I noticed it myself with my 62 mm, although I couldn't fully isolate the precise effect because I added more parts at the same time. Rally is right, too, because throttle response is MUCH better with a larger TB. It's like lightening the flywheel, but I hesitate to state how big of a difference it feels like. I will be as objective as possible.

Use R1 Kid's recent HAI dyno to see these words transformed:

 

yes i have a car with a larger throttle body... incase you missed my post earlier in the thread... i MAKE lager bore throttle bodies for the MINI's...


I was just curious as to see if someone would actually beable to tell the difference between a 58 and a 59mm throttle body. thats all...

 

I didn't mean any offense, man... I was actually trying to explain it to JeffS. My bad.

 

Cool... I need one for my MC!

 

No offense taken... Just friendly conversation! thats all! I am not trying to flame M7 or anything like that... I would be bringing this question up if webb made it... or bbk... or anybody... i was just wondering if people will actlualy see a gain for a TB thats 1mm larger...

 

I cant say yes or no for this application but you can't discount the fact that they've thinned the butterfly shaft. If you minimize the XA, you'll minimize the restriction. At WOT you're getting more air out of the same diameter which is the best way to do it. You can keep your air velocity higher that way.

If I were selling or making throttle bodies, i'd definately start with a cleaned up stock bore with a slight taper. I'd round the top edge of the bore and knife edge the throttle plate. Thinning the throttle plate is a good idea but you have to be careful not to thin it out so much that you compromise its integrity. Superchargers like air, not broken throttle plates

 

59mm

60mm

62mm
= Better and more options

peter
Team M7

562-608-8123

 

geez Peter, you HAD to make this one less than a month after receiving my "version 1" didn't you? hahah, i'll be calling you about this one too....

 

I want to stand by our products, and if anyone has our Gen.1 TB we will
offer an uppgrade for $60.00 which will take it to Gen.2.

Sincerely

peter
Team M7
562-608-8123

 

Hey Peter! I just got my upgraded TB in the mail and had myself some Saturday afternoon fun ! Bottom line, this throttle body KICKS ***!

For the record, I had the previous generation 65->62 mm TB, and when I installed it a few months back, I thought it was REALLY TRICK until 20 or miles something like that later a flat spot showed up. It wasn't a huge deal to me, because I had picked up power [my butt talks ] and I had much nicer throttle response for my rev matching on down shift. But, it was sad losing power in the dreaded 2200-3000 or so rpm zone when taking it slow around town.

SO, I decided to upgrade to the new 60mm when the new gen.2 came to market! AND, THE FLAT SPOT IS GONE! I drove around, thinking it would come back like the old one did after some miles, but NOTHING! It didn't come back. What DID come back was a huge amount of untapped power. The car does not hesitate at all in that zone anymore! Of course, this much I expected, BUT much to my I am noticing a significant amount more torque even at high rpms. How do I know? Well , I had a little bit too much fun gunning it from a light on my shakedown mission, and when I shifted into third at 65 mph (!!!!), I lost traction for a second. THIRD gear [my car's an '04 with the old gearbox...]! That's never happened to me. No, it wasn't some massive loud burnout, but my tires did spin noticibly, revs climbed, with little forward acceleration, so I lifted a little and then bam I caught traction. I did _not_ flat shift, I never do...I lifted with the clutch out [I believe that would be the right term for depressed], gave it gas to rev match at 5k or so rpm. DSC off, of course! But, yes, it made a noticeable and quite pleasantly surprising difference ! And no, for the record, my car is not stock- it's Cosworth Stage 2+.

SO, I HIGHLY recommend that you guys check this TB out now. If you're around Florida, you should drive my car and see for yourself! NO FLAT SPOT! I'm in heaven.

 

Hey, Peter! Where's mine? I've been waiting a month!

 

Hmmmm Call me

peter

 

You rarely, though, see a person come on here and say I just spent $500 on this mod and I wasted my money. Glad you're happy though.

 

Lol, it was not a 500 dollar mod. It was the upgrade. To buy it new, I think it's like 350. Definately not a first mod for a stock MCS, but on my car it made a great thing even greater, I hope you'll understand.

 

How about just calling it a vacuum gauge?

If a vacuum gauge is installed just after the throttle body, you can do a WOT run and check for vacuum. If you see vacuum registering on the gauge, then you know that your throttle body is a restriction. This method can also be used for MAF sensors, throttle bodies, etc. on other types of vehicles, too.

 

did you upgrade from v1 62mm to v2 60mm? or from v1 62mm to v2 62mm?

 

yup. I had heard from others who beta tested the piece that the 60 mm lacked any hesitation [actually, I didn't hear any feedback on the new 62, sinze it wasn't out being tested by my friends, so I just decided to go with what was proven].

 

A "dyno day" with different vendors would be fun here.

 

Believe me, man, if I had any time off of work, I'd be right there in Atlanta helping you get one done. On any part imaginable. But, I lack the free time for road trips.

One thing, though....you might be surprised exactly where all of the various TBs on the market come from . Perhaps fewer vendors than you'd imagine...

 

Are you kidding ,,.......I am in the Pro audio/AV business....do you know how many actual OEM's make plasma screens?

Maybe someone will find this a fun project.

 

yup on the 60mm or the 62mm?

 

60.

 

If you want to get some dyno runs together this coming july, when my hell year finally ends , I'll drive up to Atlanta and help enthusiastically with the arrangements. Just a thought.

 

fujitsu, panasonic and sony? maybe mitubishi?

 

Sony doesn't make their own, I'm pretty sure. I think Mitsubishi makes most of them. Am I right?