Hi all,

first off, if you're looking for numbers, I don't have any! Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming.....

Despite the fact I gave M7 a bit of grief over the birthing pains of the AGS, I found the concept appealing... So I bought one in the Marketplace. Upon it's arrival, I was both exited and a bit dissapointed.

AGS Tube


Exited because of the completeness of the kit, the obvious thought that went into it, the fantastically smooth inner surface (pretty much) and the potential it represented.

Inner Bore


A bit dissapointed, because I could see at least 4 areas that could benefit from improvement. Be that as it may, I'm sure that out of the box, the unit represents a large improvement in flow capacity at that point in the intake. I'm also pretty sure that this mod will benefit some more than others, depending on what's been changed from stock...
I also had time on my hands, as I'm not going to put this in until I have some more parts lines up (he he he) for when the front of the car is torn apart...

Area 1) (sorry no photo) the mold part around the mounting bolt thinggy looked to be a bit mis-alligned for my part. To be fair, I don't know when in the build cycle mine was, but it is what it is, or was what it was.....

Area 2) The pocket behind the SC flange is deep. This would be a flow barrier. This photo shows the SC end of the AGS as I recieved it. You can see the pocket, and the black RTV that was used to seal the surface. and fix the gasket stop.


Area 3) The pockets behind the TB were deeper, as they go down around the mounting bosses.

You can see how smooth the surface is. This bites me in the butt later....

Area 4) The bosses where the vent tubes mount have pockets, and rough inner protruberences (should that word go to the "words I like" thread?). I haven't done anything about this yet, as I'm still mulling over how to get anything to really stick well enough to trust it there.....


For number one, I just mounted a sanding gizmo on the dremmel, and problem fixed. We'll see if there's enough plastic left when I mount to the SC!

For number 2) (I really did this one after I started the TB side....) I started with the copper high temp gasket stuff. Tubes expensive! Anyway, This was the result....

The gap was filled, I wasn't too happy with the ridges (the stuff is pretty thick, and stuck to my rubber gloves....), but the reason I pulled it ALL out, was I didn't trust how well it stuck to that real smooth surface! I hadn't roughened the surface, thinking the stuff would just stick. I was wrong. Big pain in the butt! Hay NAMers! Why didn't someone do this before me so I could see how to do it right! Lazy good for nothins.....

The technique I settled on was to use some high temp fast setting epoxy. I'd mix little batches, and build up the fill slowly. With a 6 min setting time, have a lot of stirr sticks! This may seem a bit retentive, but it did work.

Cut about a 4" x 6" square of Al foil. Mix a SMALL AMOUNT of epoxy up. Fold the foil, and make a little tube with one end folded over. Then you can squeeze it out where you want it, without leaving all those little strings of epoxy around.... Told you it was rententive!

Here's the final SC side example... You can still see some bits of the old stuff encapsulated. Also, all the black stuff that was there is now gone. I had to remove the gasket stop to really clean it all out.... I'll be fixing that when I have my SC to fit it to.....

You can also see the guys at M7 are no dummies. They roughened the spots they wanted to glue....

Here's the TB side....
Starting to fill the pockets up....


When it was done (sorry, no photos, the wife had the camera), there were some lumps that stuck out too far and the like, so I sanded it down. This really roughened the smooth surface the epoxy had if left to cure on it's own, so I mixed a little more, and rubbed it over the sureface to heal the roughness. The SC side didn't need it, as I did the epoxy round after the TB side, and my skills were vastly improved....

Healed Surface....


So. Why the epoxy? It sticks pretty welll (not perfect), it can take the heat, and it's strong. Since it forms a full ring, I'm not worried (too much) about a chunk falling into the SC. I think that even if it losses adhesion, it will stay in place. That's why I haven't filled the pockets by the air lines yet....

Do I have any number to show this is worth the effort? No.

Will I ever provide them? No

Why, is Matt a hartless bast*ard? Maybe, but not in this case. I'm putting a bunch of stuff on at once. And this single adder will never be measured by itself....

Will Matt measure it if you send me $10? Nope. But if someone wants to borrow it before it's installed for testing, I've no problem with that!

Anyway, if anything interesting comes up when I fit it to the SC, I'll let all of you know!

Matt

 

How much time did you spend doing your modifications?

 

Biggest part was cleaning out the bad one, and just starting.... As usual


Matt

 

Matt,

I was disturded with the same ideas but I thought with the intake being charged with a pos. boost it wouldn't matter anyway. So I've done nothing in those areas. And by the way, we are looking to do the Dyno test this Saturday - if all comes together - and will give out the results soon there after.

JS

 

so it will be at atmosphere or less. So the idea of making it easier to get the SC to fill is a sound one, I think! anyway, I'm still torn as to wether or not it's worth the effort. And since I'm not doing flow number, I'll just assume it's good for 20 hp!

I think I read a post, long long ago, that SFJAMES did this to his stock piece, and felt butt-dyno improvement, and it just got me thinking. Before I realized the hassle, I wanted to flow test stock tube, massaged stock tube, stock AGS and massaged AGS. But then I just got lazy and said F-it!

Matt

 

IIRC, they've already got flow numbers on the AGS tube (and the stocker as a baseline, right?) Since there shouldn't be a significant difference in out of the box AGSs, just flow testing your modified version should provide useful data. If you've got the time, resource and inclination, anyway!

 

I'll look into it, but what the heck, maybe living the lie is better than knowing the trueth!

Matt

 

JS: "I was disturded" ... do you mean you posted on the intercooler fan thread?

 

Matt showed me his AGS tube in-person a couple weeks back, and he's doing a nice job.

I also mod'd my stock runner, and I did so about 2 years ago when Peter mentioned that there's an opportunity to gain some flow with the removal of some crud about the perimeter. I didn't feel any difference, but just knowing that it should have helped, even minimally, is fine with me...

I think there's always room for improvement, even on a good thing. Heck, the MINI is pretty smashing right out of the box, yet so many of us are wrapped-around-the-axle trying to make it "better." This probably makes many of the MINI engineers and designers cringe to see what we (consumers & tuners) are doing to their creations

Keep it up Matt!

 

Nice job Matt I thought about doing that a while back but wasn't as insane as you I'm sure it'll help some but who knows. As long as it kept you outta the titty bars, the wife can't complain

 

I don't get to see her dance!

Matt

 

maticulous are we? perfectionist maximus?

To each his own, personally would have just installed it and test driven it on the way for a lap dance

If I order one - will have it drop shipped to your house

 

If I were a perfectionist, I would have figured out how to sleve the thing, and machined it to the exact diameter of the TB! So I'm just lazy.......

Matt

Also, the reason I didn't do many comparisons is that the part is such a ***** to install! I only want to do it once....