<lerk mode>OFF

Your statement is misleading and I am surprised that someone else hasn't called you on it. Well, not really.

They were booted for not following the site guidelines, that simple. Those that were booted had been warned numerous times to tone it down, but they thought they had some "right" to rant the way they did. Why is that so hard to understand?

If you go back and read the threads concerning this product, not once could anyone post about it without the nay-sayers chiming in. Even when some numbers were posted that showed an improvement in flow of the intake piece, the nay-sayers said it was not enough. So, even if numbers are posted at some point in the future, and that is a big if since no one is going to "give" you one, they will immediately be dragged down for some minutia the nay-sayers felt was missed.

In the end, it doesn't really matter unless you bought the product and felt that it did not live up to what was promised. If you have not purchased and have doubts, then don't buy it. Seems pretty simple to me, maybe to simple for some?

Tuls, you seem like a decent person, from the majority of your posts, so I don't want to start a flame war with you. Just wanted to correct what I felt was a misstatement by you.

Jeez....is it any wonder why I went into the lerk mode.

<lerk mode>ON

 

I just play my comments safe on topics that regard intakes....

They are pretty and make nice noises. Thats about it. Unless you go ballz out and change everything that has to do with Air flow. (TB and such)


I bet with my setup if i take my intake out I wont really feel a change but the lack of the intake noise will make me believe that i am loosing power.

 

As with any AGS thread around here:

 

I would gladly have M7 install an AGS in my car once I see some dynos. Glady have them install it if I am in the LA area, that is. I had an early production AGS and couldnt get it fitted right. I think they have made some modifications to it now so the fit is better. It does seem strange that no one has personally dyno'd it.

Jcampos (not sure if hes been band or what), was a true believer of the AGS and was on his way to 200hp or he would cry or something...as i recall. but havent seen him around in a long time. maybe hes at horsepower gains so high that posting it would have caused too much envy? hopefully.

 

hp claims are maybe fun to read, but not definitive, so not having any for the AGS is fine with me.

Other issues are of more interest, and should be examined by a potential buyer:
problems that can only be attibuted to beta versions and were later fixed should be identified as no longer problems;
the need (or not) for RTV adhesive;
the use of the hose clamp-bypass tube as a main support for the throttle body weight;
the fact that the install is fairly complex and may involve cutting/splicing hoses; how does one go back to stock, for instance?

I ought to be able to put these on the table without being called a nay-sayer, eh, Pangloss?

 

JCampos (Jason) is definately not banned. https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...er.php?u=12583. He's around.

 

I had to go back to stock from after I installed the AGS. M7 was kind enough to give me store credit, I am greatly appreciative of Peter@M7 for that!

But going back to stock was somewhat easy. I had to pull some Maguiver moves to get it back. I had to cut the hoses that came off the AGS, hook them up the the stock intake runner, take off the M7 issued throttle body "t" vacume hose, remount the stock "t" , remount throttle body. Having cut the radiator hose was a pain, i stuggled to get it to not leak. So that needed to be fixed. And pretty much everything else went back into place. I am not the best mechanic (on a scale of 1-10, 10 being the higest, i am probably a 6, mechanical level.) Come to think of it, it was pretty hard work...i would not recommend it. Which is why I would have M7 install it, if i ever decide to go that route again.

Oh also, i got the CF (CF layered over fiber glass) splitter with my store credit.

 

sorry to hear that!!

what would you say was the hardest to do? & did you return cuz of the problem leak

 

Cheion...I appreciate your whole statment...first off "they" were not booted for not following guidlines...if you read the those rules...there was one MAIN party who went off cursing and swearing and that person was not kicked off..."they are a vendor" Now the others I speak of were repremanded and then let back on if they promised to beeee goood (E.T. Style) and shortly there after even though they did not get crazy or break any rules...they were booted...

I am not trying to start a flame war either, so please know I am not flaming you...

Let me explain some thing very important...I unlike prolly everyone else...took the time to talk to both parties...I talked with the NAM team AND the other parties involved...both had alot to say and in the end all seemed to be ok...then like I said with out further agravation...the other parties were booted...

All in all it sux...

------------------
they problem here for me personally was before the AGS was even before it was released there were promises of Dyno #s...FROM M7. NOw anyone can say the don't mean anything...however, I have been tuning or involved in tuning cars since I was a kid (thanks to my brothers and even mom and dad..they were all into cars) The thing was earlie on the only way to see if it was faster was to butt dyno or race a car that was faster before and hope this time it's closer etc...things that are completely inacurate. heh heh...Dynos are not perfect...heck a human is still running them...heh he...but they are infact a great way to see progress...I use the same dyno everytime...I have seen the results of my mods and have then had them confirmed whether at the track against the clock or even various other viehcles.

the problem I saw/see is that the nay sayers are looking for facts...while they other people were just talking about kewl sounds...hey whatever floats your boat...however, I DO think the vendor owes the consumer an answer or deal with the rath and not get people kicked off. (just my opinion)

---------

See...I will not blindy buy something....I want to know it works...I said it before...if the MINI comunity is into just buying stuff based on hype...I have a retroencabulated regurgitator made from famulated amulite that will be AWSOME for all your minis....

Education and expirence is key here...and this whole issue has not been an example of that.

------------
again I appreciate that...you too are entitled to you opinion about what you feel is correct. I do not look down on you for that...hell one of the things I LOVE about turbos is the blow off vaulve. I call it the clown meter. cause as you are getting ready to launch and reving the SSQBOV goes ptish tishhhh tihhh tihh tish as if it's laughing...so kewl sounding intakes are great. but not if stated as somthing else

--------

on a side note. I have stated before. I have over a thousand dollars in M7 stuff on my car...so understand I like the guys....I've met randy...hell we talked for hours in the garage at AMVIV. This is the only "issue" I have.

I do the work on my cars. I have had stuff manufactured. If it didnt work...well that's the luck of the draw...but I won't clain it did anymore than it did

 

Returned it cause it leaked, i fix it, drove around, hit a bump and it leaked again. Due to the fact that my car is a daily driver i could not have it out of commision, its no garage queen , so i had to go back to stock.

so now i have a dinan intake, love it. But i may try out the AGS in the near future.

WEn

 

Tuls,

Well put.

Glad to read ur keeping ur cf-suede-mobile. thats on hot ride.

WEn

 

thank you....

 

I have an AGS on my table to put into my car. I was gonna use the G-Tech for power increases. But I have learned that doing that (to get real world numbers) takes a lot of runs, all at the same place. Slope etc make a big difference in reported numbers. The install takes a while, so it's hard to make sure that the test conditions are equivalent. So go to the street for real use numbers, and repeatability is hard to find, stay on the dyno, then all the stuff about insufficient air flow and heat soak come into play.

JLMs concerns are accurate, and also incomplete. I have been working on the AGS for some further tricks (photos to be posted later, when all my hacking is done). But to tell the truth, I don't know a good way to get the quantified numbers for improvement without taking a month of sundays (and they all better have the same weather!). I've got some loggin SW (several flavors hardware and software) so I think the best is to use the G-Tech and the data logging to chech temps and the like. 10 runs pre and post should do it (if the clutch survives, it's pretty close to dead). But to do all the measurement.

Stock.
Stock with massaged TB-SC tube.
Stock with larger TB.
Stock with massaged TB-SC tube and larger TB.
AGS tube.
AGS tube with larger TB.
Massaged AGS tube.
Massaged AGS tube with larger TB.

At 10 runs each to get good numbers, that's 80 runs. And a bunch of wrenching to put the car into states that will provide good data but that I'll never run in, that's a lot of effort.

I was also thinking of some flow bench testing (and the stock vs AGS has been done and posted) to see how a massaged stock vs AGS works would be nice. But then, if the TB-SC tube isn't part of the main restriction, gains measured here wouldn't translate into power unless all restrictions were dealt with....

So while my goals are noble, I may just chuck it all and put the ported SC, massaged AGS, larger TB on and call it done. I may be able to get stock SC, Stock TB and HAI vs all the goodies numbers, but then knowing what created what gain wouldn't be clear.....

Unlike those who do think the AGS is "just another CAI" I can't disagree more. It's the only one that goes past the TB. That is a sound principle.... But like I said above, it's an open question as to how much of the increased flow capacity goes to power, and how much is wasted by other constrictions.

So after all this, I still don't have any numbers to add. And since I've already started my massaging, I have no way to get "stock AGS" numbers anymore.

Since it's much harder than the other CAIs to put on and takes much more time, there is added disincentive to do the testing.

And to make maters worse, the real benefit can only be measured if the motor is tuned for all use cases! ARGHHHHHHH.....

But when I have the front torn apart, or when I have the AGS and ported SC on a bench, I'll see if there's a better way to attach it. That one screw and no TB plate is worrysome to me as well. I drive this car A LOT (57k in just over 30 months) so vacuum leaks cannot be part of the package.

So for those of you asking for number, I just thought I'd explain why someone who bought it (me) is thinking about doing my work in a way where I can't really measure just how much benefit each part adds.

It comes down to spending time with my 8 month old daughter, or that month of Sundays to satisfy my curiosity.... Well, Alison is much cuter than an AGS tube!

Matt

 

that Dinan intake on ur ride is it the one w/round element or flat like stock?

 

I agree with Wenzor that Tuls got all the point cover. Well putg Tuls
Well putg Tuls

 

i have the dinan with the round element

 

I have been on vacation and away from the computer but I think it is rediculous that there are no numbers on the AGS yet....... A dyno cost about $65 can we take up a collection....I'm in for $5.

There must be someone outr there with an AGS that has deltas on there old rig

 

I will be doing a before and after on the AGS late september at the latest.

 

That's been said before

 

Im guilty as charged for that .....

...i would have had numbers by now but i had to sell the MINI to finance my new MINI business. WAS a hard decision but had to be done...but i have a free AGS for anyone in the UK but poeple seem put off for whatever reason to want to try it....

Dr Obnxs..im interested to see how your MINI performs once its all complete

 

It would seem to me the best thing an intake manufacturer could give for 'numbers' would be Volume of Air moved, and Velocity of Air from a contstant through their intake and compare it to known stock intake.

It would take the 'car' out of the equation since so many cars have different year models, software versions, modifications and so on.

I don't know what it would take technically to do do this, but for all the intakes sold on the market (all models cars) it would seem worthy for someone to do it.

 

Just a thought [two pints of quality IPA are to blame], but once the maximum boost is reached, either from a turbo or supercharger, wouldn't any aftermarket intake system's potential increased flow be irrelevant? In other words, once the intake system is pressurized to the point that the waste gate [bypass valve, etc.] is opening, any additional potential to flow more air is superfluous. It seems a less restrictive intake system might lower the point when max boost is reached, and that's good, but for normally aspirated engines that usually doesn't happen until the upper RPM range.

However, if the intake system increases air density, by pulling in colder/denser air or by increasing the amount of heat extracted [i.e. a better intercooler] then that would result in a real HP increase.

-Barry

 

well said, and yes...these are the things I think those who have #s have found out....and yes they exsist...shhhh..I personally think the intake alone will do just that...

also something like the AGS is where a turbo or twincharged car would accel...hence the reason Hubie had an "ags" on his mini almost two yrs before it was even heard of in the comunity

 

... or if the intake lowered the pressure drop thru the filter and other plumbing. The higher air density fed to the engine then MIGHT result in more power, assuming the engine could make good use of the extra O2. But the main idea I think is correct: all an intake can do is maximize inlet air density to the engine. So, instead of a dyno, all one has to do is measure pressure and temp of the inlet air, and compare P/T of various intakes. P/T is proportional to air density, and the intake giving the greatest P/T wins. The beauty part of this is that the measurements can be made while driving the car, rather than a static dyno, so all the complications involving air flow are real-world rather than simulated by a fan.

 

That is true if the engine works with synergy. However I have seen where more is not more/better ie "less is more." The only thing that mattters to me is when you put the AGS on does it give more power than the Alta, stock, Dinan, BMP, etc.......and if so how much? Let me make something clear......I WANT TO BUY ONE! but I have been burned in the past by people who did not know bettter and thought they were telling me the truth but they really did not know. It is discouraging to buy parts put them on and get less power or marginal gains.....far below the touted numbers. The guys at M7 have been great and I am very happy with the products that I have from them but I do dyno my car and it blows me away that someone has not dynoed the AGS.