Free speech is usually reserved for expressing opinion, and NOT for dragging names through mud.

And you know what else is an amazing concept?? Being Greatful. Appreciation. Respect. The last one being something I give little to those who show none.

 

Welcome to NAM. Public airing of grievances is fairly normal around here.

Personally, I have not, nor will I ever bash any Vendor on this Forum. I understand that the Vendor's are human and get stretched thin, make mistakes, have bad hair days, etc, etc. I've had issues with Vendors and I have related my experience to other consumers via PM and only to people on this Board that I know.

I'm also amazed (not necessarily by this thread) but by the common misconception that many of these Vendors can easily afford to hire help. There just isn't that kind of profit in a specialized business like this - the volume just isn't there.

Webb's labor rate is what, $85.00/hr at these parties and his shop? How big a mark-up does he make on parts he doesn't manufacture? What are his shipping costs? Tools? Rent? Air fare? R&D costs? Does anyone honestly think that the small mark-up he makes on parts and his labor rate easily covers these expenses? Factor into that the fact that he is the only Vendor who regularly and continuously travels the country - which means he does not get to service the walk-in business some of the other shops get and the fact that a goodly portion of his time is spent giving advice for free - and maybe you get an idea of what he is facing.

Anyone who has had less than exemplary service from any of the Vendors has a right to be upset. However, understand that it's neither personal nor intentional.

 

Nevermind

 

Please explain..
jim

 

I was just going to add something else and changed my mind. I too don't like all this bashing of people here, guess I got caught up in the whole thing. I apologize if I offended anyone. but the fact remains you guys can do business elsewhere, my problem is, I have a gift certificate (sort of) , so no one else will honor it.

Sandie

 

Here's what Randy posted on April 28:

It was posted here: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=42182

Based on what was written, I have a difficult time getting worked up over people who actually believed what Randy wrote!

Randy is a great guy, and does a great service for the MINI community, but at some point he needs to be accountable for what he promises, and whether he keeps those promises. I guess everyone's opinion on his progress varies.

 

Well, all I can say is, you win the dumbest post of the day award. You're obviously not even paying attention to what I'm talking about. And give me a $%#^* break with the Iraq crap - oh, so there's a war on, and what, that just absolves anyone of any responsibility to do anything right? Can you possibly offer a stupider argument? I would sound just as intelligent by saying that Randy is being unpatriotic by letting things slide.

I've definitely learned more about MINIs from Randy Webb than anyone else on this forum, hands down. That's why he got my order instead of somewhere cheaper. He talked me out of a $300+ air intake, and told me that the Moss one ($120) made more sense for me. Believe me, I appreciate that. If he had spent 30 seconds at any point to send me a quick e-mail saying "hey I'm going to be out of town a bunch over the next month, you may have to wait for your order," there would be no problem here. It really doesn't take a lot of effort to do that, and for someone who seems like a good guy, I'm mystified by Randy's failure in this area. Even if he's got 100 orders outstanding, just send the same message out to all of us at once. I really don't think that's too much to ask.

I absolutely think he should get rid of the "shopping cart" on his website. I don't care how many people wanted it; all it does is give the illusion that you are dealing with a regular business that takes orders and ships them within a reasonable amount of time.

Just because you'll accept 19th-century communication and shipping times from an online business, that doesn't make everyone who doesn't a "******."

 

if all Randy did for a 2 day pulley party was install 10 pulleys, he would gross $4k. figure in a couple of days travel time, expenses and his pulley wholesale cost, and it is worth while. by now he has installed over 600; that's a lot of bread.

 

I couldn't agree with you more chrisnl. We should give out awards for comments like that. I don't think anything will ever top the Iraq argument.

 

That is a quarter of a million dollars. Charging about $200 an hour for labor. I have seen him install the pulley in under an hour, although I know it takes more like 90 minutes if he takes his time. So subtract the $100 for the pulley, and divide the $300 by 90 minutes. Not too bad. $200 an hour for a mechanic is pretty good money. Much, much more than he makes for the same hour selling parts probably. I think he has been installing them for the last 2.5 years. I don't remember anyone installing pullys in 2002. So about $100,000 a year just from the pulley parties. Not too bad.

 

Another way to look at it... 15-20hp x 600 cherries popped, yep, thats an approximate total 9000-12000 hp added, from pulleys alone. Not bad for a little guy that weighs just 160 lbs (with gloves on).

 

First, Randy makes about $200 an hour at the pulley parties. Much higher than $85.00 or even the $110 a BMW shop charges. Not that there is anything wrong with the prices he charges. He provides an excellent guarantee and he has the most experience. I just didn't want people to get the impression that he doesn't make any money at the pulley parties.

I have ordered from Randy in the past and it has been slow, compared to other vendors on this site. Slow enough that I don't feel the need to order from him again, for the same part that I can get from 10 other vendors, in a lot quicker time frame.

Nothing against a small time vendor, and I am not ripping on Randy at all. But, I have told him this before, he should concentrate on a certain part of the business that he enjoys and he is good at. It is great to be the one stop shop, but if you can't do it properly, than maybe you shouldn't do it. There are enough vendors out there right now, who will ship same day as you order it, that there is not a need for most people who just want the product, to go with Webb Motorsports. I know he is busy, and I know that he has a lot of things going on. Those are great excuses (honestly), but than maybe that means you can't do everything you would like to. Randy focuses a lot on pulley parties. So much so that it has a measurable negative impact on other areas of his operation. You can see it just in his posts on his own site, when he says the shop will be down for a week while I go to Hawaii, or San Francisco..... or wherever. I know that Randy loves to talk to people, and interact one on one. So maybe those are better areas for him. There are way, way, way too many vendors who will ship your product out, guaranteed next day, to deal with poor customer service with other vendors. You could look at it, that Randy can't afford another person, but you could also say that Randy can't afford not to hire another person. I know that Randy misses $10's of thousands of dollars in sales and possibly $100,000's of sales a year because the shop takes too long to respond or ship. I know at least 2 people who decided not to buy $5,000+ in parts from him because of the long delays and no one returned their calls. Those two examples that just I know about cost him $10,000 in sales, which is probably $1,000 to $2,000 in profit. I am sure there are hundreds of others. The other thing that hurts is that people probably call him up for advice and then once they get the advice shop elsewhere so they can get there item in a few days and not a few weeks. Because of the poorer service, Randy gets lets profit from each time he spends on the phone talking shop. Not only does he loose the sale, but he wastes the time and doesn't get to talk to other people who may be waiting on orders or who may be willing to buy from him.

I am all for small vendors, and I would love to see Randy succeed. But you also have to be able to compete with the competition. You can't feed your family on a bunch of people saying you are a nice guy. You have to deliver. Randy could be a big shop. Take for example, Outmotoring. I know some people have had a bad experience, but for the most part, people are pretty happy with the speed of the orders. You don't get tech support like with Randy, and you can't get a pulley party, but here is a virtual storefront with no live person to talk to, and because they have a great webspace, and they ship quickly, they do a good job supporting themselves. They have grown because they focused on one small area and worked at making it very good. Not that Randy needs to be like Outmotoring, because each shop needs to form their own business. It just shows that processing orders over the web can be done, quickly, cleanly and efficiently. I am just worried that with Randy branching into the Lotus Elise, and the same arguments from 2003 with poor customer response, that this won't further exasperate things. I don't know, I guess time will tell.

 

Why is it that it always looks like the other guy is getting rich?

I'm sure he is making a living not a fortune.

 

05JCWS, you have valid points, alot of them spot on, but I still think you guys are missing the big picture here.

You guys are pissed because you expect the same response from Randy as you would any other seller, whether it be Dell, Amazon, Netflix, or whoever.

It's amazing how good some of you are at pointing out what Randy is doing wrong. And even then, those things are not something I'd expect him to be good at. In fact, I'm bloody happy that Randy isn't a good salesperson, because a good sales person is only good at one thing - bullsh*tting.

One last thing, Randy really does appreciate everyones business, and I'm sure he kicks himself when he loses it.

I propose that all those dragging his name through the mud (both politely and rudely) be sent away to a place where there is no Randy, no tuners, no good help, and they can take their MINIs with them.

 

Thank you for a thoughtful response.

Vendor A: Cons: Slow shipping
Erratic Ease of Ordering

Pros: Tech Support
Mods Come to You

Vendor B: Cons: Lack of Tech Support
No Roadshow

Pros: Fast shipping
Ease of Ordering

No one Vendor has shown me that they can deliver on all fronts. My preference is to buy from the wrencher, the guy who can install it and the guy that can walk me through the technical aspects of the work if I decide to do the work myself.

I'll reward the guy who talks me out of a foolish purchase and points me in the right direction. I'll do business with the Vendor who brings his business to me. I'm willing to wait the extra time for my parts while he works out the kinks.

It's all a matter of preferences and no one's preference is more valid than any one others.

 

I'm going to try to keep this brief...

There are other expenses that are not being accounted for here, and that I can assure you...

We should not lose sight of a very important distinction: that is between vendor and tuner. It is guys like Randy who have brought product to market for us. Whether doing so from inception, or working with another company to tailor an existing product for our MINIs, Randy has invested much time, and money into this most important, and often over-looked aspect. Without new goodies coming to mkt, life as we know it in this Drivetrain forum fizzles...

A vendor, after a phone call and agreement, just needs a jpeg and some copy/paste lingo, and they are ready to do what they do - order fullfilment. Randy cannot do that as efficiently as that is not his sole purpose or function...

Having witnessed the likes of Dinan basically ignore us for a couple plus years, our go fast parts were courtesy of small time operations investing their personal time and money. I have always been most appreciative of this, and continue to show support with my loyalty. I understand how others will not see it this way though, particularly folks who are relatively new...

Randy has brought, and continues to bring new products to the MINI Community. He track tests and dynos virtually everything he can get his hands on. He's served as our traveling mechanic for years, and has been a fountain of knowledge on MCO/NAM, on the phone, in-person, etc... I just see all that he gives us, and I force myself to remember this when I'm unable to reach the guy .

Randy is much more than just a vendor, and should not be compared to one whose sole or primary purpose is just that. Again, with that said, I do empathize with those who have not heard back. The decision is of course yours to make. I'm just sharing all that I consider when I think of Mr. Webb...

I guess I wasn't so brief

 

I can't believe anyone could say this with a straight face! YES people expect normal service from a business! I think it's people like YOU who are missing the big picture.

 

Listen here kalilera, I guess thats what the problem is. You guys dont see him for what he is.

He is just 1 guy, who loves MINIs, and loves working on them. No amazon. No Micheal Dell. No Donald Trump. Just a very talented guy, who devotes his life to doing what he loves. And we are the ones that benefit from it. The same ones who bite from the hand that feeds them.

 

Well argued

 

This thread has had at least a few posts removed or edited for site rules violations (clean posting & respect for others). In addition, those posts quoting or following up on the violating posts have been removed.

You're welcome to make your point and disagree with each other, but it needs to be done in a manner that's respectful of and to other forum members.

 

I think we've beaten this post to death. Some of us like Randy and respect what he's done for the MINI community, we know a one man operation can not service every request and phone call the way a large company can, other's cannot accept this fact. Enough said.

 

Problem is, we're not buying from Micheal Dell or Randy Webb or whoever, we're buy from Dell Inc. or WebbMotorsports. That's the point you're not seeing camelpilot. But even if we're buying from individuals, I'd expect some sort of good communication and quick/reasonable shipping times.


I don't care how nice a guy is, if he doesn't communicate and holds my money b/c he can't ship quickly, he doesn't deserve to be in business and will eventually lose his business b/c of this.

On the other hand, if he does communicate and keep me updated on my order(s), I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and not be so quick to judge.

This is for any business, not just WebbMotorsports...I have never ordered from him, but am very hesitant to place an order because I see a lot of these posts and a lot of posts from Randy himself every couple of months explaining why you can't/couldn't reach him, but he always posts on the board pretty regularly. I'm grateful for his expertise, but maybe he can adjust his business to suit his expertise.

And of course I shouldn't have even gotten into this debate, but I was tired of seeing some people get on the customer b/c the business wouldn't communicate/ship.

 

I think the answer is simple:

Randy can do like the other Vendors and stop giving out free advice in 30 minute blocks. He can stop travelling all across the country doing pulley parties. He can stop devoting his time to this community. He can open up a state of the art virtual storefront.

He can move to a big market like the Bay Area or LA and if you need him to do work, y'all can travel to him.

That way he can take care of his internet and phone orders and keep everyone happy.....

Uh, wait:

Some of us don't mind waiting the extra week or so for the return call or shipped order.

Some of us would be even more upset that we can't get his advice or have him come to us and work on our cars.

Then we could start a thread and you guys can defend him. Actually, I wouldn't even take part in that thread. Bashing a business man on an internet Forum is below me. If I got a beef with someone, its between me and him, not me, him and NAM. Nobody has appointed me Consumer Advocate of anything. Do business with whoever you want and unless something illegal is going on, don't take food out of some guys family's mouth because of an unresolved issue that has nothing with anyone else.

I did business with a very popular vendor on NAM a few years ago who royally screwed me. Sent me a defective part, overcharged me for it and refused to take it back. That was between me and him and I resolved the issue without starting a thread and picking apart his business acumen, his work ethic and his morals in front of this community.

 

Oh my. I hate to point out a flaw in yout statement, but I believe if you take a step back and really look at the situation, you'll see that Mr. Webb is one of the best salesmen around. If you don't believe that, you're being taken to the cleaners. Do some in-depth research on what it takes to be a good salesman. In the end you'll find a description of him. Don't take me wrong. I'm not saying this is good or bad. But Randy is a salesman extraodinaire.

 

I ordered several parts from Webb Motorsports this past Thursday night. Friday morning I got a phone call asking questions about my order and an e-mail from Randy Friday afternoon. Even though it has only been two days since my order, I'm pleased with the service so far.

I noticed a few weeks back that Randy mentioned on NAM that Webb Motorsports had an increase in staff. It seems some of the concerns in this thread have been looked at and taken care of.