So our son got his first Mini and wants to do a few mods to it. My question is, at what point does it make sense to do a ECU Tune and which one?
So here is the plan for Stella:
Cold air intake
Custom cat back exhaust
15% supercharger pulley
Colder plugs
He is saving up for parts and don't want him to waste him money on things that are not needed.

Thanks!

 

None of the things you listed will require a tune. I wouldn't waste the time or money messing with a tune unless he's got a lot of money to burn, and wants a little more power after he does all of those mods.
Depending on where you are located......a "tune" can cost a lot of money. There are only a few guys around the country that write tunes for these cars. If you are doing a remote dyno tune, it's around $350 for the flash tool, $250+ for the actual tune, plus dyno time ($200-ish). So you are talking $800-ish to make a little more power.

Don't waste your money on a tune unless you have money to burn. Also....go with a 17% pulley...it builds boost a little faster and is great for the street vs the 15% pulley

 

Definitely won't need a tune until all those parts are on. Also with a tune you will need to upgrade the injectors. You will need at least the JCW 380 injectors. My car with a 17%, exhaust and intake made 175 HP on the dyno before a tune. With the injectors and tune it was at 200HP. To me $600 for 25HP is a good deal. But more than the power gain was the way the car drove and how it pulled through the rpms.

 

As soon as the air flow is increased, larger injectors and a remap are required.
It will work without a tune and injectors, but the AFR won't be optimal, it will run lean.

I would definately change the injectors an get a remap. If you don't want to spend a lot, a stock JCW 210 map along with 380cc JCW injectors will run pretty fine with your setup

 

Unless you are doing something like a header and or cam/head......spending all of that money on a tune is a waste of money for most people. Do you know how many thousands of R53's there are there running a pulley, CAI, and exhaust on the stock tune with no issue? Lots.

 

It will work, no doubt about that, but it could run better.
without tuning the ECU the AFR will go lean and the engine might not like in intensive use and the performance won't be optimal. 380cc injectors can be purchased for less than 200$, an MPPS V13 cable for 30$ and a original JCW210 dataset for free. Flashing is done in 2 minutes and the car will run a lot better.

I know most people don't do it, I just think they should

 

I have searched for people who do tunes in our area with no prevail. I think that the tune can be something that we do later, right now we are going to change the oil pan and crank gasket and also do the crank position sensor o-ring then start with the upgrades. Gotta get the oil leaks to slow down before going fast!

Should have named it Earl Leaker!!

 

So you have your $30 cable...not what? How do you go about getting the JCW210 tune? What software do you use to flash your PCM with? I don't think it's as easy as you think it is...but maybe I'm wrong.

Can you give me some more details?

 

This is the cheap way you know so yeah it is not super easy, it needs a little research but I found almost everything on forums and I think everyone can do it. The most cost efficient way to flash is using MPPS, you can find it on ebay (cable + software) and I found the JCW210 tune file using google.
I agree this requires a bit of tweaking but I found very useful info here!

 

So basically.....this is all just in theory, you have never done it...or seen anyone else do it?

I would be interested in something like that....but there is no way I'm plugging some eBay pcm flashing device into my OBD port and attempting to flash my PCM. Especially when you are talking about flashing some unvarified JCW tune you found online......that's a great way to brick your PCM.

If it's so easy....why don't you buy the $30 cable, download the JCW tune you found on Google......and flash it onto your cars PCM with the eBay flash module.

There is a reason people pay $600+ for a propper flash tool and canned tune....and the canned tunes really aren't that great....they just get you by until you can get your car to the Dyno.

 

I did it on Monday, with my ebay cable. I have a JCW210 so I already have the right map but I wanted to flash a modified calibration that makes more pops and bangs. It was my first time ever to flash a car and it worked.

Using cheap solution like this is not as good as a proper tune on a bench and a full access to the ecu but it is better than running a pulley without adjusting the fueling at all!

More air, more fuel. That's the way it works

 

Ah...ok. so you have done it on your car....cool! What software did you use to modify your current map? I'm running a WMW "quick tune" currently.....it ok, but I would love to find a way to get into the maps and pull some timing out ofntho upper rpm range.

I've asked questions here on the forums before about people attempting to use software to tune their own cars.......and it's like crickets. Nobody has any info other than "pay someone to do it for you".

From the little bit of swaexhsea I've done online on using MPPS to flash. Mini R53 PCM.....it sure looks sketchy. Most guys try it on a "spare" PCM first in case they do something wrong a brick. Not sure it's worth the risk.

Any more details would be great. Thanks!

 

The MINI Ecu will 'adapt' to changes in intake volume, density, etc. and will adjust the timing and other parameters accordingly. The stock ECU parameters can handle an upgraded pulley, a CAI, most exhaust systems upgrade, and even injector upgrades without requiring a custom tune. Some of the 'canned' tunes which are inexpensive compared to a custom tune will work wonderfully. A cam, large injectors, a big valve head will all require a custom tune to extract the capabilities. If you can get a dealer to install the 'JCW' tune on a non-jcw engine, that will be a plus.

If you are going to install any mods, your first step should be to make sure your engine is in top shape. Rather than a tune, a compression test and, if needed, a leak down test will be better money spent. Good luck with your car, but be careful...MODS ARE ADDICTING. Hello, My name is Teddy and I am a mod addict

 

Tuners keep their trade secrets...and rightly so. I really wish that tuning was easy as on my air-cooled VW's. If you really want a good tune...go to the Dragon and have Jan tune your car. He has been doing it long enough and has enough proven experience to provide a great tune. No, I am not connected with his business, just a very satisfied customer who had his car tuned 3 years ago and it is still doing great. My hat is off to anyone who can master, or even understand the intricacies of Tuning.

 

That's "sort of" accurate. Yes, the PCM can accounts for most bolt on mods (pulley, Cia exhaust).......but when you start talking about injectors.....you can get the 380cc injectors to work (but they run rich), but there is no way any larger injectors will work with the stock tune.....no way around it. That's why most people don't mess with upgrading injectors......the 210JCW used the same standard 330cc injectors that the S models did.....so that tells you something.

I was running a 17% pulley on my 03' JCW (JCW head, JCW SC, JCW tune, JCW exhaust, etc, etc)....and my AFR's were still plwnty fat with the 330cc injectors. Just "because"...I upgraded to the 380cc injectors...and honestly, even after a new tune...the car wasn't any faster.

As far as canned tunes that "work wonderfully"....which ones are you referring to? Aside from the JCW factory tunes, I've never heard of any R53 canned tunes that run that great.

Thanks for the info!

 

I was referring to all of the tunes that are marketed to the masses. Maybe I misspoke because I was just going by what I read. AND, I'm sure are aware of opinions, just like a body part...everybody has one.!!!

 

No worries

As yes, I wish I was closer to some of those tune parties Jan does. Unfortunately...being in Missouri, I seem to be all long drive away from any of them. I would love for him to tune my car for me! Maybe one of these days.....

 

Well, he will be at the Dragon in May. A great excuse for a road trip.

 

Would love to go.....but it's an 11hr drive!!

Out of curiosity.....what does Jan charge for a tune at those tune party's?

 

For me, it's "only" seven hours each way for a tune, and definitely worth it!
(3X over the last decade)

You pay his current charge for your first tune, plus your percentage of the groups' time on the local dynomometer.
(There's no-charge for re-tunes if you are doing other upgrades with RMW, which I was doing.)
My last dyno time was $150/hr, and just over $200 at a facility 20 minutes from Jan's shop. Dyno may cost less in other areas of the country.

 

Do you have details on this!? Very interested!

 

One thing to realise about Jan's tunes at MOTD, unless something has changed this year, it's not the same as the classic "Tune Party" .
The Tune Parties were set up with a dyno and AFR sniffer, the tunes at MOTD, except for having to or buy the flash tool (which he brings with him) are done like his remote tunes, you drive the car, he reads the data from the flash tool and tunes from it.

It's actually a testament to his knowledge, personally I wouldn't begin to know how to adjust a tune with no dyno, or flat roads for a WOT pull for at least 30 miles, and no AFR data (that I know of, unless he's somehow able to pull it from the 02 sensor).
Guess that's one more reason I'm not a tuner....

 

Custom tunes typically make a huge difference in how a car performs.

There are only two companies (that I know of) doing custom tunes in the USA. BlwnAway chose Byteronik, and I chose RMW; those are your choices!

I expect that both of us would agree that there are significant measurable benefits to getting a custom tune over going with any number of "canned" tune products. A custom tune is mandatory if you swap injectors to anything larger than JCW385cc injectors (that were standard on the 200 & 210HP Minis), which you will want for best results if you add a big-valve head or a cam, in addition to that pulley.

My first was a GIAC "canned" tune installed in 2007, and other than slightly changing the sound of the engine at idle, there was no noticeable difference. What a disappointment, and waste of ~$300! (That GIAC tune is still available, in addition to a half-dozen other canned-tunes.)

In 2008 I began reading really positive results from multiple people who had attended locally organized "tune parties" where Jan from RMW would fly-in and custom tune more than a dozen cars in a day at local dynomometer facilities. I lined-up, but missed the date when work intervened, so when things calmed down I drove 400 miles to meet Jan for a custom tune at Church Automotive (four dyno bays, no waiting). I had installed a 16% pulley, JCW airbox, and 385cc injectors. Results were amazing: The dynamometer said 199HP when done, an 18% increase in peak HP from the 168HP when I drove in, but the increase in mid-range torque was nothing short of startling!

WARNING: Mods and custom tunes are addictive. Two more mod & tune cycles later, and I'm up 100+HP over stock, and grinning ear-to-ear when I drive it.
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If Goldsmithy or Revolution Motor Works have any info on how tunes will work at MOTD can you add it to this thread, or maybe provide a link or name of the organizer, if people want to get on the list?

 

Let's get back to the OP's question. I say stick with the 15% pulley. It generates less heat and is the conservative, safer choice. Stick with the basic mods you've listed and refrain from a tune until you get the car sorted and installed a good, high quality header....and no, you don't need larger injectors unless you've gone with a hot cam. I've got 200 fwhp with a Way Tune (he does custom tunes) that I've been running on track for many years with no adverse results. I'd prefer that you two work on suspension mods to make the car handle better (shocks, struts, poly bushings, adjustable rear lower control arms, rear sway bar, adjustable end links, etc.). Then get involved with local autocrossers and develop the skill sets to go with the mods. Suggestion: Don't throw all the mods on the car at one time. Do it in logical progression so you can work out any "bugs" that may develop and so that you can enjoy and appreciate the improvements.

 

how did you do this?