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I did this to a small GM car (four cylinder) , MANY...years ago.
I used the windshield washer system. I went from 50/50 water/methanol mix to straight methanol (ethanol also works fine). When I wanted to use it, I just pushed the washer button, on the turn signal arm...simple. Ran the delivery hose into the air filter adapter. Had a "jet" holder I made from a water injector kit. As it turned out, it ran the best with the largest jet in the kit. I probably could have drilled the jet even larger, never did.
No other engine changes required. Made a very noticeable difference in power. And that was with "old" methanol (too much water for use at work).
Methanol / ethanol both serve to cool the combustion (therefore, can use more ignition timing, depending on the amount of alcohol used), produce more power than gas (more alcohol required though), and, helps keep the injectors, ports, chambers and piston tops, MUCH cleaner than with straight gasoline.
Been there...
Speaking of Aquamist, anyone who's been around a few years knows that Jeff Howerton of Howerton Engineering used to be the US Aquamist distributor.
There's a very good article over on MA that he wrote a few years back, while being Aquamist oriented, it has some very good general info as well:
Speaking of Aquamist, anyone who's been around a few years knows that Jeff Howerton of Howerton Engineering used to be the US Aquamist distributor.
There's a very good article over on MA that he wrote a few years back, while being Aquamist oriented, it has some very good general info as well:
On the 6500 redline, one has to remember that the revs do end up creating the top speed so if you are tracking that is something that would need to be considered. I am never going to go that fast so its no problem. From what I have found the tuning method to lower is not easy as there are algorithms involved.
I am thinking on a simple relay system that will shut off the fuel pump at 6500. I need to figure out where I would get that signal and how to control it,
On 19% pulleys, there are lots of 19 and 17+2 cars, and in the UK they run up to 22 % pulleys with mods. A person would need to data log temps to make sure the pump is not cavitating, which I don't see happening. Even at the track you are not at 7000 rpm constantly.
You will not get good info on US forums, the builders focus on peak hp not hp over time, and people just parrot what they have heard. The reason r56 is faster on the track is it makes more power between 4000 and 6000 so you have more torque over a longer period, 19 % closes that gap I've thought about it on my track car, I dont really care if I wreck a supercharger they are not that expensive anymore, and I have a new jcw SC in the garage on the spare motor.
Also on the US forums they usually do not understand water vs meth, water will cool better, 100 % is the best for cooling but meth will raise the octane more. If you tune for meth, god forbid the meth pump fails, that is why I use it only for cooling. I would never run over 50 % due to the invisible fire issue, and pretty much all race tracks have banned methanol. At the end of the day its how you plan on driving the car.
There is a good amount of discussions on long term 17% pulley use but not allot on 19%, at least not on this side of the pond. It does have me thinking of a 18% that I can get to pretty easy as I already have Way Motor's 2% ATI crank pulley and they also have a 16% pulley.
On meth for cooling only, would think a 70% water/30% meth would work and I think that mixture is not flammable. Pretty sure that you need at least 80 proof to burn.
I've seen this discussion many times over the years with many different communities and there is a few things I always bring up.
There are two kinds of safeguards.:
Reactive = Something goes wrong and they shut down. These are usually triggered by a tank level sensor signaling low or a engine parameter trigger (knock / AFR / IAT)
Proactive = Monitors many parameters actively and shuts down before engine has issue. These usually include flow and / or pressure sensors.
Before you go down the road to MI, make sure you understand the function and consequences of these two types of protection.
Also do a little research on Methanol itself. It's pretty corrosive stuff and can do damage to things that you'd never think just like Ethanol even when diluted.
The top victim of Methanol / Ethanol is natural rubber. They will pull the natural oils out of rubber very quickly and cause it to disintegrate from the inside. This is why Top Alcohol cars have to clean out fuel lines after every run to prevent them from being damaged. If you do a quick Google search you'll find the Evo guys went through a lot of injectors because they were being clogged with rubber particles from running E85 before they started switching out to nitrile lined hoses.
The second victim is engine oil. Fuel dilution happens no matter what fuel you're running. What fuels that oil is built to handle without breaking down or compromising lubrication is the issue. There are very few oils specifically designed to handle Ethanol / Methanol fuel dilution. I know Torco has some, Motul 300V will work, and I know there are a few other "race oils" that will hold up to the dilution.
Remember that Methanol / Ethanol act just like a solvent (actually works well as a parts wash in a pinch) when sprayed and will take the oil coating right off of anything they come in contact with including cylinder walls, valve stems /guides, and the top piston ring so the quality of your oil is crucial.
I'm not saying don't do it, I'm saying if you are going to run it cover your butt and prep accordingly.
Good points but some things that should also be mentioned.
1.) Not going to get into exact numbers but even though methanol has a higher octane than gasoline it burns much cooler and therefore it takes twice the amount of methanol to get the same mpg as gasoline; car gets 30 mpg on gas, it would get 15 mpg on alky. I raced snowmobiles back in the 70's and the modified guys were burning meth back then. They had to drill the carbs out so that they could have two lines going in for without there was no increase in power.
2.) Yes, you do need to be conscious of meth dilution of your engine oil. but, many oils will start to become "milky" with meth dilution. On race cars we need to go back to the double the amount discussed above as when running on 100% meth they are using twice as much so the dilution occurs quite rapidly if the oil is not formulated for it.
3.) On MI remember there are two basic "why you doing"; for tuning, or, for cooling? You should consider how much is being injected by the MI system and then what percentage of meth is in the water/meth mixture? For every one part of gas the engine uses the MI is injecting 0.08 of that on a 12% injection rate so the water/meth ratio is important. If injecting 100% meth than 15 ounces of meth is injected for every 1 gallon of gas. If the water/meth mixture is 50% then the 15 is cut in half to 7.5 ounces and if a 30% mix is used the meth value is reduced to 4.5 ounces. It appears the 12% injection rate works for cooling only whereas for tuning this value may need to be increased to 25%. Remember that meth is highly flammable and burns blue so it is almost impossible to see the flames. A 50% water/meth mixture is flammable so you would need to get below a 60 water/40 meth mixture before you have for most purposes eliminated the flammable issue.
4.) Having fail safes in place are important for if the MI liquid is able to enter the engine when it is off, you end up with bent valves. If too much is injected when the car is idling, the same thing can happen. Having a light that is on when the pump is pumping is a very good idea. Having the storage system below the injection point is also good and all the instructions I have read from the various manufactures said this must be completed. There is even the option of adding a solenoid before the injection/nozzle that is only activated by either the car key or a separate switch.
5.) Our Gen1s do not have the carbon build up problem that the early Gen2s have but if they had a water injection system the issue would be mitigated significantly.
Just as in my Chevy Cobalt Brembo Brake Thread, I am again stating that MI may not be for everyone. You need to familiarize yourself with all the pros and cons. I am leaning toward a lower injection rate with no more than a 70/30 water/meth mix. I also plan on have the solenoid noted above as well as an off/on switch so that when I am doing normal driving the MI is not on if I so choose.
Now on the matter of water pump cavitation, there are folks out there with modified engines pushing well over the stock redline, some as high as 8,000 rpms.
Years ago it was thought that anything over a 15% supercharger reduction pulley was problems and a 17% was beyond logic as the water pump would cavitate leading to engine failure. There are MINIs out there pushing rpms well above the stock red line. Many of these have reduction pulleys to boot. Using a 17% pulley at 7500 rpms the supercharger/waterpump is spinning at 18,780 rpms, at 8,000 the revs have increased to 20,000! A stock S MINI would need a 33% pulley to push those numbers, yes 33%. Boggles the mind on how well the Tritec Engine, Eaton Supercharger and the OEM water pumps are designed.
I recognize that what I can visualize in my head and/or comprehend may not be put into text/verbiage that another person may understand. Nothing against the other person as it has more to do with how I explain things.
The 19% pulley would be creating more boost at low engine rpms as the supercharger is spinning 19% faster than the Stock S. At low levels of engine rpm the boost is more efficient relative to heat generation. As the rpm level increases the supercharger does not create boost in the same fashion as it is in the realm where "squeezing air together" has become so difficult for it that efficiency drops. In my case where I am not concerned about triple digit track speeds but rather low end torque on twisties, it appears the 19% will provide what I am looking for. At approximately 5,800 engine rpms the 19% will be at the same supercharger rpm as the Stock S engine and at 6,500 the JCW.
Past this 5,800 engine rpm point, my supercharger will not be producing boost as efficient but so what? We are talking about a matter of a few seconds for the engine to go from 5,800 to redline. Hence the MI that would appear to help mitigate the heat created by the inefficiency.
Here are some Eaton Charts and then a spreadsheet that I prepared.
The spreadsheet reflects where there are any issues with possible excessive supercharger rpms. I have not seen anything from Eaton but there are posts on the web noting that Eaton stated their M45 was rated for a maximum 16,000 revolutions. BMW/MINI decided to install a smaller pulley on the JCW that exceeds the Eaton "line in the sand." One would think there would have been a major class action lawsuit had the JCW superchargers suffered catastrophic failures and that BMW/MINI would have considered this when they released the option. With hindsight, one can see that the superchargers did not fail nor were there any waterpump cavitation issues. I am also not aware of any major issues with the 15% pulley have any major issues.
In the spreadsheet where a specific pulley exceeds the 16,000 value the cell is highlighted in yellow. Of greater importance to me is that the 19% pulley at 6500 engine rpms is less than the JCW at redline. I have not seen a representation such as this on any forum. This does not mean it does not exist but most of what I found was basically "I heard you should not do this."
I have a thread like this going both here and Motoring Alliance so I cannot always remember what I say when or where, but the more I delve into this matter the more it appears to be like Columbus being told he would sail off the edge of the flat earth (actually that is a myth created by Washington Irving) as most people say the smaller pulleys are bad but only have word of mouth as the proof.
I created another spreadsheet that compares the engine rpm value of each type of pulley to the value of the JCW Pulley. I am using that JCW pulley ratio and data as the control point. Now I have found conflicting values for the cutout/redline value of the Gen1 of both 6750 and 6950. In my own experience I believe it is 6750 but my eyes are more on the road then on the gauges. My "foot rev limiter" really only needs to come into play for a me, what I will call a Street Driver, in 1st and 2nd gears. I say this for the top speeds for gears 1 through 4 are approximately (Facelift Model with 205/45-17 tires and 6750 redline); 1st = 38 mph, 2nd = 62 mph, 3rd = 86 and 4th = 105. I can see myself driving in 1st to redline in normal street driving but hitting redline in 2nd for me would be limited to twistie runs. In other words, the times that my supercharger with a 19% reduction pulley exceeds the JCW Control value is very very limited.
Back when I bought my first MINI I checked the forums out and what I found was; 1.) Do not use those red coil units, 2.) A 15% pulley is better and 3.) You do not go with a Shark tune thing. Now on the red coil and the shark tune, I did find folks that had written about major issues. At that time it did not dawn on me that relative to pulleys there was not allot of hard data that was out there, at least that I found. What I did find was the; its going to cause cavitation, its going to spin so fast the fuel limit range limiter is going to be triggered, its going to spin so fast the water pump is going to blow up or it does create more heat. Well of these, the heat thing is correct and is backed up by data.
So I focused on the heat thing and started thinking; 1.) Why is more heat created, 2.) What is the range where the heat creates issues, and 3.) Is there something that can be done to mitigate the heat? IMO when somebody asks a question about pulleys the statement that "the smaller pulley will make the supercharger spin too fast" should not be offered but rather that the smaller pulley will create more boost at lower engine speeds but will start to lose efficiency when it reaches a certain point close to redline with more heat as a byproduct. The spreadsheet I created reflect the engine rpm range where the inefficient points are reached. These points range from approximately 6400 for the 19% to 6600 for the 15%. I also provided information based on gear ratios where these points would be encountered in somewhat normal street driving.
To mitigate these issues there are three basic choices; 1.) Do not make the change, 2.) Do not drive in a manner that your engine rpms exceed the inefficient points or 3.) Use MI to reduce the intake temperatures. For me and now with the understanding that even the JCW appears to spin beyond the 16,000 range that Eaton specifies (still have not found any data released by Eaton stating such) it was easy to decide to go with MI and to give me just a little more "power" with the 19% pulley.
Interesting bit of info -
The actual fuel used by the IRL is a blend of about 98 percent ethanol and 2 percent denaturant. The exact composition includes a small amount of high-octane racing fuel. The fuel for today's Indy cars has an octane rating of 113, compared with methanol's 107.
I've also read where they run 100% Ethanol...NOT methanol..!
So, so much for that myth. Either will work just fine.
I was involved in the construction of an ethanol plant. They have to denature the product with gasoline or they are subject to whiskey taxes. The gasoline makes the product poisonous. The purity of the product is key to higher octane.
The plant was built for $150,000,000 and Sunoco ended up buying it for something like $12,000,000 in a bankruptcy auction.
I have decided to make my own system up. You can buy separate controllers, pumps, injectors, solenoids and other parts from different vendors.
Controllers: The name brand kit makers all have their own controllers but I decided to go with Jeff Harris and his http://www.hpcontrols.ca/. He sells his controllers on e-bay at a very reasonable price. I know another member that has the controller and it appears to be ok. I ordered the part yesterday evening and already got an email back from Jeff that he has the unit ready to be sent out.
Pumps: Shurflo appears to make all the injection pumps for all the various kit makers. BlwnAway provided a link to a very good post over in Motoring Alliance that is the first link below, and there is another post on pumps at the SRT Forum that is the second post. I am still doing research on pumps and have not made a decision yet. There are allot of Shurflo pumps that may be options here and are lower in cost. The key element appears to be the operating pressure of the pump. In the Motoring Alliance post you will read about pressures and what I call overamping.
Solenoids: I am going to install a solenoid between the pump and the nozzle/injector. I researched using a brass unit that can be purchased on Amazon or Ebay for less than $20. What dawned on me was that the orifice size was smaller than the pipe size and would impede flow so I went with a Kit makers unit. The purpose of the solenoid is to make sure that the MI mix cannot be pulled into the air stream under vacuum conditions when the pump is not activated. From what I read this can be accomplished with a checkvalve but the valve may add to pipe restriction and I did note an instance where the valve failed.
Nozzles: Lets just say there is so much "advertising" type stuff that for me it is kinda hard to figure out which is best. Since I am using the solenoid as my "check" I am leaning towards the Devils Own nozzles that do not have an internal check (that pipe restriction issue again). It appears that a 500 cc/min is the same as 500 ml/min and that AEM has chart saying a MINI with our boost and HP would use this size unit. Now Devils Own has a MINI kit that comes with a 300 and 700 nozzle so I am thinking the 500 in the words of Goldilocks may be just right. Remember I am using this for cooling and not tuning.
Currently without misc parts such as hoses, clamps etc and with a budget of $145 for a pump, I am at $340.
Just found a great web post on water injection. I am trying, note trying, to figure out myself on how much MI liquid I should inject. Once I know that then in conjunction with the flow charts in the Motoring Alliance post I may be able to determine whether high psi pumps are required and then what size nozzle may be best.
I am looking for some meth heads and/or mechanical engineers to tell me if I am correct with the below.
1.) The flow rate of a M5 nozzle reflects that at 150 PSI the flow rate is approximately 375 cc/min.
2.) You have a 150 PSI pump rated for 1.5 GPM.
3.) The M5 nozzle at 150 PSI will provide 375 cc/min that equates to approximately 0.099 gallons per minute.
4.) As the M5 nozzle produces a flow less than 1.5 GPM the pressure in the line will never exceed 150 PSI.
