Drivetrain Intercooler Opinions/Options?

  #51  
Old 02-25-2019, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by johntotah94 View Post
Dang. Seeing many replica intercoolers on eBay for $249 now. What’s the deal??
G-plus intercoolers are the bottom of the barrel for replica intercoolers. They hit the market a little over a year ago with the n54/55 crowd. I have seen a couple logs (n54/55) and they do drop IAT's a fair amount but people have fitment issues, QC issues, poor welds, really bad fin density, people stating 1.2 to 2.2 psi pressure drop.

G-plus is even using the Wagner part number to market it on various sites like ebay. Based off the design it looks to be a knockoff of the wagner competition. Frankly my biggest concern would be fin density and end tank design.

I have a wagner competition sitting at my desk and I have contemplated multiple times doing a side by side comparison with logs comparing the performance of the two.





 
  #52  
Old 02-25-2019, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by charrigan View Post
G-plus intercoolers are the bottom of the barrel for replica intercoolers. They hit the market a little over a year ago with the n54/55 crowd. I have seen a couple logs (n54/55) and they do drop IAT's a fair amount but people have fitment issues, QC issues, poor welds, really bad fin density, people stating 1.2 to 2.2 psi pressure drop.

G-plus is even using the Wagner part number to market it on various sites like ebay. Based off the design it looks to be a knockoff of the wagner competition. Frankly my biggest concern would be fin density and end tank design.

I have a wagner competition sitting at my desk and I have contemplated multiple times doing a side by side comparison with logs comparing the performance of the two.
Hmm. Yeah if you don’t put the bumper on. Install one. Then install the other right after and do some logs.
Then return it. I think it has a 30 days return.
 
  #53  
Old 02-26-2019, 03:29 AM
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I can't see that any of those will give you a major boost, the original JCW 13 Rows is miles ahead of the standard Cooper S, where it makes sense to replace. For any endurance high power, you have to remove condenser and AC which is approx. 8 kgs off and minor hp gain. Than place a customized charge air cooler, or find one ;-) Schirra used on its R56 a AUDI S3 core.
 
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Old 02-26-2019, 10:36 AM
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@ Clutch Wotan or anyone else- how about the option to upgrade to OEM JCW intercooler on an S? Would the difference be worth it? How hard would it be? Any other changes needed, other than the diameter of piping? Hoping that could be solved with an adapter of some kind...

Thanks
 
  #55  
Old 02-26-2019, 11:15 AM
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I wouldnt, the stock S IC is ridiculously small. Even the OEM JCW IC will be an improvement

I have the Forge and made this comparison picture:
 
  #56  
Old 02-26-2019, 11:43 AM
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Sorry, not following... you wouldn't what?

If anyone knows volume of S, JCW, and some of the aftermarket ones... or more pics comparing =)
 
  #57  
Old 02-28-2019, 06:06 PM
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Here are some photos from my JCW
 
  #58  
Old 03-02-2019, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by J_L View Post
@ Clutch Wotan or anyone else- how about the option to upgrade to OEM JCW intercooler on an S? Would the difference be worth it? How hard would it be? Any other changes needed, other than the diameter of piping? Hoping that could be solved with an adapter of some kind...

Thanks
As said it makes sense to replace the Cooper/S , the JCW would require radiator as well, otherwise you can used charge aircooler as skid plate. The piping must be changed as well 68 Dia to 72mm. To avoid this you can take any of those aftermarket units, as they are plug and play. For JCW it is not necessary to spent money on some extra kilo in the front.
 
  #59  
Old 03-03-2019, 11:25 AM
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Thanks for the reply. So changing S to OEM JCW would require new radiator too- you're right, not worth the trouble. Too bad!
 
  #60  
Old 03-04-2019, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by J_L View Post
Thanks for the reply. So changing S to OEM JCW would require new radiator too- you're right, not worth the trouble. Too bad!

Wait what? I dont think it needs a new radiator.

Why replace stock with stock? If you are going through the trouble of taking the front end off or paying someone to do it, why put a stock restrictive piece on? Go aftermarket.
 
  #61  
Old 03-04-2019, 08:40 AM
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Ok- would be good to know for sure what the differences are. Has anyone done a JCW swap on a S?

I'm concerned about losing throttle response with a bigger unit. So making the assumption that the OEM JCW wouldn't have such issues.

And secondly, cost... if these excellent aftermarket intercoolers were a few hundred bucks, ok. But it's a pretty major purchase. And one that I don't think I'd see the benefit from.
 
  #62  
Old 03-04-2019, 10:55 AM
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Does anyone have a comparison pic of the Stock IC vs. the JCW IC?

Is the stock JCW one that much bigger? I was going to upgrade my JCW one to a Forge but now I'm reading that it isn't that much more of a difference. Hell, I'll save my $900 for other mods. I don't even have the car yet, haha.
 
  #63  
Old 03-04-2019, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by bluonyx View Post
Does anyone have a comparison pic of the Stock IC vs. the JCW IC?

Is the stock JCW one that much bigger? I was going to upgrade my JCW one to a Forge but now I'm reading that it isn't that much more of a difference. Hell, I'll save my $900 for other mods. I don't even have the car yet, haha.
Per Wagner:
JCW vs Wagner JCW intercooler - provides a 30% larger frontal area and 47% more volume compared to the stock intercooler
Cooper S vs Wagner Competition - provides a 53% larger frontal area and 52% more volume compared to the original intercooler

Per forge:
JCW vs Forge JCW intercooler - 31% increase in frontal area over stock and a correspondingly large increase in volume of 41%
Cooper S vs Forge - 63% increase in frontal area over stock and a correspondingly large increase in volume of 57%
 
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  #64  
Old 03-04-2019, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by charrigan View Post
Per Wagner:
JCW vs Wagner JCW intercooler - provides a 30% larger frontal area and 47% more volume compared to the stock intercooler
Cooper S vs Wagner Competition - provides a 53% larger frontal area and 52% more volume compared to the original intercooler

Per forge:
JCW vs Forge JCW intercooler - 31% increase in frontal area over stock and a correspondingly large increase in volume of 41%
Cooper S vs Forge - 63% increase in frontal area over stock and a correspondingly large increase in volume of 57%

Good stuff right there! I knew the S to Forge was big, but wow, 63% increase! I love my Forge!
 
  #65  
Old 03-04-2019, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by charrigan View Post
Per Wagner:
JCW vs Wagner JCW intercooler - provides a 30% larger frontal area and 47% more volume compared to the stock intercooler
Cooper S vs Wagner Competition - provides a 53% larger frontal area and 52% more volume compared to the original intercooler

Per forge:
JCW vs Forge JCW intercooler - 31% increase in frontal area over stock and a correspondingly large increase in volume of 41%
Cooper S vs Forge - 63% increase in frontal area over stock and a correspondingly large increase in volume of 57%
We offer both, but just one of the reasons we prefer the Forge
https://www.waymotorworks.com/forge-...s-f55-f56.html

https://www.waymotorworks.com/wagner...5-f56-f57.html
 
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  #66  
Old 03-05-2019, 05:51 PM
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Forge all the way!
 
  #67  
Old 03-06-2019, 01:36 AM
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Very interesting to see the compare.

What do you consider as volume ? The core size or the volume of the tubes ?
Here is a proper solution for R56. F56 is has to be that way as well.
 
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Old 03-06-2019, 10:28 AM
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It would be nice if there was some standardized manner of comparing based on, 1) Pressure drop across core, 2) Temperature drop across core and 3) Flow rate through unit. Volume and area don't really give you any performance related info, as you could have a huge volume over stock, which could delay throttle/boost response and the additional surface area may be out of fresh airflow and basically have minimal heat sink effect. Also, remember that if your 'large' core (i.e.- heat sink) does get hot, it will take longer to cool down to create a more beneficial temp drop. For the short time you generally need it, you could go with a CO2 spray kit or even an alcohol/water mister kit on the core or an alcohol injection kit to add some liquid charge cooling.
 
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Old 03-06-2019, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by WhatV8 View Post
It would be nice if there was some standardized manner of comparing based on, 1) Pressure drop across core, 2) Temperature drop across core and 3) Flow rate through unit.
wagner is the only company I know of that is transparent with this info.



 
  #70  
Old 03-12-2019, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by charrigan View Post
wagner is the only company I know of that is transparent with this info.
There you go, something of a start and good to see. As you notice, the Temp delta at the start is larger than the end in the top graph, so as the Wagner intercooler starts to heat soak, its efficiency over the stock unit is decreased. It would be interesting to see if Wagner actually lists the test parameters that the top graph is showing (I haven't researched to see if Wagner does indeed list it). One thing I do find interesting in the bottom graph, is that it appears the Wagner IC has a noticeably lower pressure drop at the same flow rate than the stock unit. Anyone know what the flow rate on our 2.0L are at say 5000 rpm is? ...too lazy to calc it out right now.

My guess is all of the various versions would need to be independently tested to find out the true differences between them all, if that is what your goal would be.
 
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Old 04-05-2019, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by WhatV8 View Post
It would be nice if there was some standardized manner of comparing based on, 1) Pressure drop across core, 2) Temperature drop across core and 3) Flow rate through unit. Volume and area don't really give you any performance related info, as you could have a huge volume over stock, which could delay throttle/boost response and the additional surface area may be out of fresh airflow and basically have minimal heat sink effect. Also, remember that if your 'large' core (i.e.- heat sink) does get hot, it will take longer to cool down to create a more beneficial temp drop. For the short time you generally need it, you could go with a CO2 spray kit or even an alcohol/water mister kit on the core or an alcohol injection kit to add some liquid charge cooling.
I choose the JCW intercooler because I believe it is sufficient even for 300 HP, compare new BMW models, it fits in nice. The required radiator gives me access to the cooling, even the needed charge-tubes can be upgraded ( hard/alko......) and fine tuned.

As soon as I have the time I will have a look the new cooling pack for the X2 M.. whatever, it seems with more core width (and depth?) , with a corresponding charger cooler which is not Wagner like.
 
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Old 04-09-2019, 02:53 AM
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  #73  
Old 04-09-2019, 04:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Clutch Wotan View Post
lets keep this thread about intercoolers and not future production cars
 
  #74  
Old 04-09-2019, 08:23 AM
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Why ? This is the JCW Intercooler which produces 308 hp, not future already used in. the X2.

Why they didn't do anything drastic as Wagner and Co. is beyond my knowledge.
 
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Old 06-15-2019, 08:02 PM
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ECS has 10% off Forge right now- I pulled the trigger . Came out to a great price! If you hunt a bit, Airtec and Wagner can be had for similar money. But Forge seems to have the best reputation, so went with theirs.

Been taking logs, and will post up some before and after results.
 

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