Drivetrain Limited Slip Diff.
1st Gear
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I am sure the "grip" works fine for street driving and makes a nice difference. However, I wonder how many people are using it to race?
My guess is almost none. I am not knocking the product as it is a good alternative to Quaife and saves ya a nice amount but quaife has years of proven technology behind them and that is why I will go with them.
My guess is almost none. I am not knocking the product as it is a good alternative to Quaife and saves ya a nice amount but quaife has years of proven technology behind them and that is why I will go with them.
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
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[QUOTE=Rondor]I am sure the "grip" works fine for street driving and makes a nice difference. However, I wonder how many people are using it to race?
My guess is almost none. QUOTE]
Nuzzo's team cars have been racing with it for quite a while. There are other cars that track with it as well.
I am not saying that one is superior to the other, and many will choose to be sceptics because of the simplicity and the lower cost of the PG. The PG appears to be performing flawlessly, even on race cars. If both units perform identically....well...you choose.
There are, and will always be, those who are diehards and set in there ways to only use and preach the ways of the past...especially those coming from the H2o VW scene (of which I was one).
My guess is almost none. QUOTE]
Nuzzo's team cars have been racing with it for quite a while. There are other cars that track with it as well.
I am not saying that one is superior to the other, and many will choose to be sceptics because of the simplicity and the lower cost of the PG. The PG appears to be performing flawlessly, even on race cars. If both units perform identically....well...you choose.
There are, and will always be, those who are diehards and set in there ways to only use and preach the ways of the past...especially those coming from the H2o VW scene (of which I was one).
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From: So Cal
[QUOTE=Bisch]
as my buddy from the Marines once told me... it's like having a 10in pecker for an 8inch hole.... the last 2 inches are just for show
Originally Posted by Rondor
I am sure the "grip" works fine for street driving and makes a nice difference. However, I wonder how many people are using it to race?
My guess is almost none. QUOTE]
Nuzzo's team cars have been racing with it for quite a while. There are other cars that track with it as well.
I am not saying that one is superior to the other, and many will choose to be sceptics because of the simplicity and the lower cost of the PG. The PG appears to be performing flawlessly, even on race cars. If both units perform identically....well...you choose.
There are, and will always be, those who are diehards and set in there ways to only use and preach the ways of the past...especially those coming from the H2o VW scene (of which I was one).
My guess is almost none. QUOTE]
Nuzzo's team cars have been racing with it for quite a while. There are other cars that track with it as well.
I am not saying that one is superior to the other, and many will choose to be sceptics because of the simplicity and the lower cost of the PG. The PG appears to be performing flawlessly, even on race cars. If both units perform identically....well...you choose.
There are, and will always be, those who are diehards and set in there ways to only use and preach the ways of the past...especially those coming from the H2o VW scene (of which I was one).
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
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Originally Posted by El Diablito Rojo-N20Mini
as my buddy from the Marines once told me... it's like having a 10in pecker for an 8inch hole.... the last 2 inches are just for show
edit: This guy did peck a sizeable hole......show-off!
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From: So Cal
Originally Posted by Bisch
Most North American woodpeckers are less than 10 inches anyway, and the holes in which the peck, are usually less than 1/2 inch. (though they tend to peck a multitude of holes!)
edit: This guy did peck a sizeable hole......show-off!
edit: This guy did peck a sizeable hole......show-off!
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Atlanta/Amsterdam
The most extensive users in a race setting for the Phantom would be Nuzzo. They have used it for two years now with no problem in their heavily modified and heavily raced cars. Minimania also has it on their 265hp car. They took it out after 100,000 miles and noticed no wear on the unit.
Again, like Bisch said not knocking the quaife. It is a great product, and while the phantom grip looks too simple, it has not shown any problems even under conditions most of us will never experience.
It also comes with a lifetime warranty.
Again, like Bisch said not knocking the quaife. It is a great product, and while the phantom grip looks too simple, it has not shown any problems even under conditions most of us will never experience.
It also comes with a lifetime warranty.
5th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,081
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From: Texas
From what I can tell, Nuzzo's never had a drivetrain problem on the track - engine problems and electrical gremlins, yes, but their Phantom's work perfectly fine...
IMHO, both are fine choices - one costs a lot more, one is cheaper - one's got more parts that can break, too. When I was rockcrawling, the simpler diffs were always the best and strongest - first place went to properly welded spider gears for effectiveness and strength (talk about CHEAP!), and second was always the Detroit Locker. Other companies offered more complex solutions and some were cheaper, especially for limited slips, and yet they were always the ones that failed under severe duty (e.g. TrakLock, TrueTrac, Powertrax Lockright (and other 'lunchbox' lockers), etc.)).
Ever driven a Jeep on the street with a welded diff? Talk about entertainment!!!
IMHO, both are fine choices - one costs a lot more, one is cheaper - one's got more parts that can break, too. When I was rockcrawling, the simpler diffs were always the best and strongest - first place went to properly welded spider gears for effectiveness and strength (talk about CHEAP!), and second was always the Detroit Locker. Other companies offered more complex solutions and some were cheaper, especially for limited slips, and yet they were always the ones that failed under severe duty (e.g. TrakLock, TrueTrac, Powertrax Lockright (and other 'lunchbox' lockers), etc.)).
Ever driven a Jeep on the street with a welded diff? Talk about entertainment!!!
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From: So Cal
Originally Posted by dgszweda1
The most extensive users in a race setting for the Phantom would be Nuzzo. They have used it for two years now with no problem in their heavily modified and heavily raced cars. Minimania also has it on their 265hp car. They took it out after 100,000 miles and noticed no wear on the unit.
Again, like Bisch said not knocking the quaife. It is a great product, and while the phantom grip looks too simple, it has not shown any problems even under conditions most of us will never experience.
It also comes with a lifetime warranty.
Again, like Bisch said not knocking the quaife. It is a great product, and while the phantom grip looks too simple, it has not shown any problems even under conditions most of us will never experience.
It also comes with a lifetime warranty.
As I have stated from the beginning, I bought the PG based on Peter's recommendation and put the money into what I thought was necessary.... 400cc injectors....(safety reasons because I run Nitrous) are the 400cc injectors really needed? Well, I don't know for sure but I would rather have it run rich and safe... than lean and GO BOOM!!!
For the 100th time (sure seems like it) I have NEVER, EVER bashed the quaife as an inferior product.... just in price.... so for those that actually own quaife, congrats on your purchase and I hope you continue to enjoy the product. I get ZERO kickbacks from anyone.... I clearly am stating my point of view on the Phantom Grip..... yes... a part I actually own unlike some on the board who continue to bash products that they have never tried.
I shouldn't try to understand these people because obviously they have an agenda...... and now for the humor
My friend says the quaife really sucks.... in fact it blows.... chunks... big chunks... why? because I said so... it really doesn't matter that I have never ridden in a quaife equipped car or plan on owning one.. I said it sucks... period.... I need no stinking tech articles that prove it sucks or have had one in the past to know for sure.... I just know it does..... really it does
for those that can't see the humor....well sorry
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From: So Cal
Originally Posted by rallyedude
What about the factory LSD coming in the 01/05's. Anybody got any info on that piece?
Now figure you are ordering your new MCS, the LSD is $1000 option would you get it?
Discuss......
Now figure you are ordering your new MCS, the LSD is $1000 option would you get it?
Discuss......
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,319
Likes: 94
From: Tsunami Zone
Originally Posted by rallyedude
What about the factory LSD coming in the 01/05's. Anybody got any info on that piece?
http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72917
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From: So Cal
Originally Posted by MINIAC
The word is it will be a 30% Clutch Type produced by GKN Driveline:
http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72917
http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72917
a friend of a friend whose friend says.. this factory LSD blows chunks... sometimes little chunks but occasionally big chunks.... he said it... it must be true....I have no facts to back it up on but then again when does that matter......
4th Gear
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 540
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From: Calabasas, Los Angeles
DiablitoRojo-guy, Don't you have a job or something? 
I don't understand why you're replying to dgszweda's post and writing a page of stuff that's only been repeated by you many times. All in all, you could care less about who buys the Quaife yet if anyone mentions that the Quaife might be the better choice, you're getting all riled up. We got it buddy. You don't have to reply to me too, just a reminder, as it's become a habit it seems.
I don't understand why you're replying to dgszweda's post and writing a page of stuff that's only been repeated by you many times. All in all, you could care less about who buys the Quaife yet if anyone mentions that the Quaife might be the better choice, you're getting all riled up. We got it buddy. You don't have to reply to me too, just a reminder, as it's become a habit it seems.
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From: So Cal
just so you don't think I am posting to you....
I am trying to get a point across to some ... how damn ridiculous they sound bagging on parts they have never used or will never use. I want honest feedback from people who actually have tried it. NOT HEARSAY.... have a great weekend
I am trying to get a point across to some ... how damn ridiculous they sound bagging on parts they have never used or will never use. I want honest feedback from people who actually have tried it. NOT HEARSAY.... have a great weekend
1st Gear
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 45
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Originally Posted by Antranik
DiablitoRojo-guy, Don't you have a job or something?
I don't understand why you're replying to dgszweda's post and writing a page of stuff that's only been repeated by you many times. All in all, you could care less about who buys the Quaife yet if anyone mentions that the Quaife might be the better choice, you're getting all riled up. We got it buddy. You don't have to reply to me too, just a reminder, as it's become a habit it seems.
I don't understand why you're replying to dgszweda's post and writing a page of stuff that's only been repeated by you many times. All in all, you could care less about who buys the Quaife yet if anyone mentions that the Quaife might be the better choice, you're getting all riled up. We got it buddy. You don't have to reply to me too, just a reminder, as it's become a habit it seems.
I've used both (though not in a Mini) and there is no comparison. I'll take a helical LSD over the PG any day of the week. Check with all of the real race teams. You won't find anyone using a PG because they are inferior to other LSDs.
That being said, PGs are much cheaper and probably just fine for most people who never really push their cars to the limit. You just need to get the correct spring tension (coded by colors) and you're set.
not to jump against owners of both, but i got neither, but i personally in real life know someone who does...
my say is that... it dont matter which you own... to most people, including me, the difference is so small that its becoming pointless to argue... phantom grip works, and qualife works... so why are people arguing over something so trivial
my say is that... it dont matter which you own... to most people, including me, the difference is so small that its becoming pointless to argue... phantom grip works, and qualife works... so why are people arguing over something so trivial
3rd Gear
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 174
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From: Baton Rouge, LA
Originally Posted by SiMPLE_SiMON
Great post.
I've used both (though not in a Mini) and there is no comparison. I'll take a helical LSD over the PG any day of the week. Check with all of the real race teams. You won't find anyone using a PG because they are inferior to other LSDs.
I've used both (though not in a Mini) and there is no comparison. I'll take a helical LSD over the PG any day of the week. Check with all of the real race teams. You won't find anyone using a PG because they are inferior to other LSDs.
You're comparing apples to oranges because you haven't used both in a MINI, just other vehicles. Differentials act differently on different cars. It all boils down to the owner. I haven't heard of anyone who bought a PG and didn't like it and went with the Quaife.
I plan on the PG. I haven't heard of any problems with them OR the quaife, so the cheaper item gets my buy.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,469
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From: Atlanta/Amsterdam
Simple Simon,
I do not favor one or the other, but I wouldn't say Nuzzo is not a real race team. In relation to the Mini and its class and the fact that we are in North America, I would say Nuzzo is the top race team in the States for the Mini and probably a lot better than a lot larger teams. No one here who thinks the Phantom Grip seems like a good alternative, is ripping on the Quaife. In contrary, I think all of us think the Quaife is a great differential. It is just that the $2300-$2500 install is quite high for most individuals. I am not sure why everyone is so upset about a group of people who think that the Phantom Grip is a very good alternative for cost conscious consumers, and that it is not an inferior product, but just a different product.
I am editing my post below:
You can check out Tony Nuzzo's testimonial for the Phantom Grip and how he feels it compares to the Quaife here http://www.phantomgrip.com/testimonials.php
I do not favor one or the other, but I wouldn't say Nuzzo is not a real race team. In relation to the Mini and its class and the fact that we are in North America, I would say Nuzzo is the top race team in the States for the Mini and probably a lot better than a lot larger teams. No one here who thinks the Phantom Grip seems like a good alternative, is ripping on the Quaife. In contrary, I think all of us think the Quaife is a great differential. It is just that the $2300-$2500 install is quite high for most individuals. I am not sure why everyone is so upset about a group of people who think that the Phantom Grip is a very good alternative for cost conscious consumers, and that it is not an inferior product, but just a different product.
I am editing my post below:
You can check out Tony Nuzzo's testimonial for the Phantom Grip and how he feels it compares to the Quaife here http://www.phantomgrip.com/testimonials.php
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From: So Cal
Originally Posted by MHayes
El Diablito Rojo-N20Mini....do you have any larger pics of your MINI. Based on the small pic in you messages, that thing looks awesome. I would love to see more and hear about the mods you've made. Thanks!
2nd Gear
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 128
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From: Hawaii (Oahu)
Here's the testimonial from Nuzzo.
Mini-Cooper Owners
I want to thank you for all your support. When I went looking for a LSD for my 2003 MINI COOPER S racecars, I had a difficult time finding any. Quaife finally made one and I put that in. It was a hugh improvement over the stock open diff. Then I heard about the Phantom Grip and how it worked. I was skeptical but I was still having problems getting the power down to the wheels and gave it a try. I was very surprised at how well it worked. I run two cars in the Grand-Am Cup Professional Road Racing Endurance Series. Our races are 250 miles or three hours long so I was concerned whether the Phantom Grip could hold up under these strenuous conditions.
Well as you know, not only did the Phantom Grip hold up, it performed flawlessly. You wanted me to return the Phantom Grip to you after one race for inspection. Our schedule was so tight with back-to-back races, that I wasn't able to remove it until after three consecutive races. I was again surprised when we found little or no wear to the Phantom Grip.
You have continuously made improvements to the unit and provided the kind of technical support a professional race team needs if it is going to be competitive. I tested the latest generation on Thursday. At this time, I can clearly state that in side by side testing in identical racecars the Phantom Grip outperformed the Quaife LSD by virtually eliminating any wheel spin coming out of the corners.
I'm convinced that your product outperforms your competition and it costs about 75% less than theirs.
Thanks for your support during the 2003 season. I look forward as we continue working with you in 2004.
Mini-Cooper Owners
I want to thank you for all your support. When I went looking for a LSD for my 2003 MINI COOPER S racecars, I had a difficult time finding any. Quaife finally made one and I put that in. It was a hugh improvement over the stock open diff. Then I heard about the Phantom Grip and how it worked. I was skeptical but I was still having problems getting the power down to the wheels and gave it a try. I was very surprised at how well it worked. I run two cars in the Grand-Am Cup Professional Road Racing Endurance Series. Our races are 250 miles or three hours long so I was concerned whether the Phantom Grip could hold up under these strenuous conditions.
Well as you know, not only did the Phantom Grip hold up, it performed flawlessly. You wanted me to return the Phantom Grip to you after one race for inspection. Our schedule was so tight with back-to-back races, that I wasn't able to remove it until after three consecutive races. I was again surprised when we found little or no wear to the Phantom Grip.
You have continuously made improvements to the unit and provided the kind of technical support a professional race team needs if it is going to be competitive. I tested the latest generation on Thursday. At this time, I can clearly state that in side by side testing in identical racecars the Phantom Grip outperformed the Quaife LSD by virtually eliminating any wheel spin coming out of the corners.
I'm convinced that your product outperforms your competition and it costs about 75% less than theirs.
Thanks for your support during the 2003 season. I look forward as we continue working with you in 2004.
[font=Tahoma]--Tony Nuzzo--[/font]
[font=Tahoma]Didn't they get 5th this year at VIS? Highest placing ever for a MINI?[/font]
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From: So Cal
Originally Posted by regalic
Here's the testimonial from Nuzzo.
Mini-Cooper Owners
I want to thank you for all your support. When I went looking for a LSD for my 2003 MINI COOPER S racecars, I had a difficult time finding any. Quaife finally made one and I put that in. It was a hugh improvement over the stock open diff. Then I heard about the Phantom Grip and how it worked. I was skeptical but I was still having problems getting the power down to the wheels and gave it a try. I was very surprised at how well it worked. I run two cars in the Grand-Am Cup Professional Road Racing Endurance Series. Our races are 250 miles or three hours long so I was concerned whether the Phantom Grip could hold up under these strenuous conditions.
Well as you know, not only did the Phantom Grip hold up, it performed flawlessly. You wanted me to return the Phantom Grip to you after one race for inspection. Our schedule was so tight with back-to-back races, that I wasn't able to remove it until after three consecutive races. I was again surprised when we found little or no wear to the Phantom Grip.
You have continuously made improvements to the unit and provided the kind of technical support a professional race team needs if it is going to be competitive. I tested the latest generation on Thursday. At this time, I can clearly state that in side by side testing in identical racecars the Phantom Grip outperformed the Quaife LSD by virtually eliminating any wheel spin coming out of the corners.
I'm convinced that your product outperforms your competition and it costs about 75% less than theirs.
Thanks for your support during the 2003 season. I look forward as we continue working with you in 2004.
Mini-Cooper Owners
I want to thank you for all your support. When I went looking for a LSD for my 2003 MINI COOPER S racecars, I had a difficult time finding any. Quaife finally made one and I put that in. It was a hugh improvement over the stock open diff. Then I heard about the Phantom Grip and how it worked. I was skeptical but I was still having problems getting the power down to the wheels and gave it a try. I was very surprised at how well it worked. I run two cars in the Grand-Am Cup Professional Road Racing Endurance Series. Our races are 250 miles or three hours long so I was concerned whether the Phantom Grip could hold up under these strenuous conditions.
Well as you know, not only did the Phantom Grip hold up, it performed flawlessly. You wanted me to return the Phantom Grip to you after one race for inspection. Our schedule was so tight with back-to-back races, that I wasn't able to remove it until after three consecutive races. I was again surprised when we found little or no wear to the Phantom Grip.
You have continuously made improvements to the unit and provided the kind of technical support a professional race team needs if it is going to be competitive. I tested the latest generation on Thursday. At this time, I can clearly state that in side by side testing in identical racecars the Phantom Grip outperformed the Quaife LSD by virtually eliminating any wheel spin coming out of the corners.
I'm convinced that your product outperforms your competition and it costs about 75% less than theirs.
Thanks for your support during the 2003 season. I look forward as we continue working with you in 2004.
[font=Tahoma]--Tony Nuzzo--[/font]
[font=Tahoma]Didn't they get 5th this year at VIS? Highest placing ever for a MINI?[/font]
always remember to use the catch all phrase.... my friend of a friend to start the complaints... it makes it easier to digest...
1st Gear
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 45
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Originally Posted by dgszweda1
Simple Simon,
I do not favor one or the other, but I wouldn't say Nuzzo is not a real race team. In relation to the Mini and its class and the fact that we are in North America, I would say Nuzzo is the top race team in the States for the Mini and probably a lot better than a lot larger teams. No one here who thinks the Phantom Grip seems like a good alternative, is ripping on the Quaife. In contrary, I think all of us think the Quaife is a great differential. It is just that the $2300-$2500 install is quite high for most individuals. I am not sure why everyone is so upset about a group of people who think that the Phantom Grip is a very good alternative for cost conscious consumers, and that it is not an inferior product, but just a different product.
I am editing my post below:
You can check out Tony Nuzzo's testimonial for the Phantom Grip and how he feels it compares to the Quaife here http://www.phantomgrip.com/testimonials.php
I do not favor one or the other, but I wouldn't say Nuzzo is not a real race team. In relation to the Mini and its class and the fact that we are in North America, I would say Nuzzo is the top race team in the States for the Mini and probably a lot better than a lot larger teams. No one here who thinks the Phantom Grip seems like a good alternative, is ripping on the Quaife. In contrary, I think all of us think the Quaife is a great differential. It is just that the $2300-$2500 install is quite high for most individuals. I am not sure why everyone is so upset about a group of people who think that the Phantom Grip is a very good alternative for cost conscious consumers, and that it is not an inferior product, but just a different product.
I am editing my post below:
You can check out Tony Nuzzo's testimonial for the Phantom Grip and how he feels it compares to the Quaife here http://www.phantomgrip.com/testimonials.php
It's funny how people think that paid testimonials are legitimate. Quaife wouldn't sponser his team but Phantom Grip would. Hmm.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
From: Hawaii (Oahu)
I agree about the paid testemonials, but you are all saying that real racers wouldn't use it. Well this is the highest a MINI has placed in the Grand-Am Cup Professional Road Racing Endurance Series.
Just by placing 5th that is a solid testemonial in and of its self. Also if you read the articale on motoringfile.com
http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/10/...n_grand-am_cup
or the full article
http://www.whowon.com/sresults.asp?S...StoryID=136436
You will see that if it wasn't for
" A left-front shock canister, which is used to keep the proper pressure in the shock absorber, broke away from the wheel well leaving the No. 20 with essentially no left front suspension on the 17-turn facility. Lewis drove a remarkable race turning times competitive with the leaders and working his way into the top-position despite the dead left-front suspension."
then they probable could have finished on the podium.
I have looked at neither product because as you can see I have yet to start my mods (developing a list right now). I haven't got to looking at a LSD yet so I have no opinion on either the quaffe or the PG.
I just find it funny that people are so quick to attack the PG. There is no validation on the attack that I can see. Also the people defending the PG have made no critical remarks on the quaffe besides the high installation price.
If it's good enough to place someone at the highest ranking MINI has ever achieved it can't be that bad of a product.
Just by placing 5th that is a solid testemonial in and of its self. Also if you read the articale on motoringfile.com
http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/10/...n_grand-am_cup
or the full article
http://www.whowon.com/sresults.asp?S...StoryID=136436
You will see that if it wasn't for
" A left-front shock canister, which is used to keep the proper pressure in the shock absorber, broke away from the wheel well leaving the No. 20 with essentially no left front suspension on the 17-turn facility. Lewis drove a remarkable race turning times competitive with the leaders and working his way into the top-position despite the dead left-front suspension."
then they probable could have finished on the podium.
I have looked at neither product because as you can see I have yet to start my mods (developing a list right now). I haven't got to looking at a LSD yet so I have no opinion on either the quaffe or the PG.
I just find it funny that people are so quick to attack the PG. There is no validation on the attack that I can see. Also the people defending the PG have made no critical remarks on the quaffe besides the high installation price.
If it's good enough to place someone at the highest ranking MINI has ever achieved it can't be that bad of a product.
3rd Gear
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 186
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El Diablito Rojo-N20Mini
LSD Blows Chunks What are you saying?
It matters to me,I have one on order.
just to get this forum started ....
a friend of a friend whose friend says.. this factory LSD blows chunks... sometimes little chunks but occasionally big chunks.... he said it... it must be true....I have no facts to back it up on but then again when does that matter......
a friend of a friend whose friend says.. this factory LSD blows chunks... sometimes little chunks but occasionally big chunks.... he said it... it must be true....I have no facts to back it up on but then again when does that matter......
LSD Blows Chunks
What are you saying?
but then again when does that matter
It matters to me,I have one on order.
