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380cc Bosch Alternative fuel injectors source found.
I found a US based company selling the Volvo 380cc fuel injectors for very good prices. https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/vol...ector-30757534
They have the Bosch/ Volvo part number 30757534 injectors. I believe these do require the EV6 to EV1 pigtail adapters that are easy enough to get from eBay/amazon/Summit.
from what Ive gathered the spray pattern may be different ....if you buy them let me know if they work out for you ...hell of a price lol
I did buy them and they seem to work perfectly. It's only been a day, so I will report more at the end of the week. The article link below and the associated part numbers led me to these. They do require a pig tail adapter(s) to the wiring harness which is pretty cheap. Less than 130$ for everything. Hell of a lot better than 400-500$. They are exactly the same length as the OEM injectors but the injector is not as fat as OEM. These injectors came packaged as brand new in Bosch boxes and sealed poly bags with plastic caps to protect the ends.
They are working perfectly! Being 380cc They work just fine on stock ECU but a tune would always improve things. I have not noticed gas mileage because I had a bad MAP sensor that was killing my mileage anyway (fixed it just last night). I did notice my idle feels smoother and the temp gauge runs a little bit cooler than before, especially after driving it hard. I can't say for sure if there is a big power difference because I added catless headers at the same time and that made a big difference in overall performance since I already have CAI, pulley, and exhaust. All that's left now is a tune... or big cylinder head.
More cosmetic stuff is up next before summer gets too hot.
I still have about 100 lbs I can get off the weight of the car.
Last edited by Grandtheftfu; Apr 20, 2017 at 04:18 PM.
The price from that site is insane. Can't say the JCW are crap or better but my wallet is heavier. I had a YoYo at idle but mine was from a bad map sensor and vacuum leak from the tube that connected to that same map sensor.
Just wanted to chime in and say that I too bought these injectors from FCPEuro ($82 shipped for the set!) and the adapter harnesses from Summit racing ($40 shipped).
Like the others, they worked great and WOW the car is SO MUCH SMOOTHER!!! The idle, acceleration, shifting... everything. It drives like a different car. I cannot stress this enough. I even get SIGNIFICANTLY less engine lurch / thump when I get on and off the throttle (this was my least favorite thing about the mini... and yes, before you ask, I replaced the upper/lower engine mounts (and got the powerflex inserts), transmission mount, axles, and LCABS... and while it got better each time it still has more "thud" than any other sports car I've ever owned).
I suspect this change in smoothness is because they are a 4-hole nozzle design unlike the factory 2-hole injectors. These must offer better fuel atomization which apparently goes a really long way for these cars. I could be wrong, but that seems logical... of course maybe my injectors were just old (although they were in excellent condition from what I could tell, and my buddies who own mini's have the same issues) or maybe mini's need more fuel to idle smoothly. I'm sure someone can chime in on this...
Overall I did notice a small loss of power at WOT which makes sense as I'm now probably running a bit rich. It's almost worth it on its own without the tune for the extra smoothness (I mean guys... it is dramatic...) but I'd rather not risk damaging my cat or lose gas mileage, so I will be getting a tune of some sort to work with them.
One thing to note though to everyone interested in doing this... I installed the injectors using the supplied o-rings and I noticed how easily they popped into my intake manifold (the originals were a B*** to get out) but I didn't think much of it (Yay!! Fresh o-rings!). But on my test drive (although it idled smooth as butter and everything SEEMED fine) I saw a 1-2PSI drop in boost. Upon investigation I found that the o-rings supplied are smaller than the OEM's and must have been not quite sealing properly. After swapping my original injector o-rings onto the new injectors (yeah yeah, I know... This is only temporary) my boost went back to normal.
So if you buy these I'd recommend replacing the o-rings on them with new OEM (or maybe even slightly larger) o-rings. The heads on these are slightly larger than the OEM injectors (they use a 9mm ID o-ring) but the OEM o-rings will stretch and work since they're not that much smaller. If you don't have a boost gauge you probably would not have caught this, so hopefully I just did somebody a favor
That being said, I REALLY feel that these would be a very solid upgrade for anybody on a budget who's currently running a pulley/intake/exhaust and wants to get a major upgrade for CHEAP. These injectors (including adapters) will set you back only ~$120 and you can run them without a tune. However, for ~$270 WayMotorworks offers a "QuickTune" which he can configure for the 380cc injectors at no extra charge (as in... you will not lose power and mileage, but GAIN power AND run much safer because of the extra injector headroom, as well as fixing the dead spot in power (2.5-3kRPM), raising the rev limiter, removing the top speed limiter, and more). Way also offers the JCW flash (for a little more $$) which I suspect would also work fine but I would go with the WMW tune, as he knows what he is doing and the other extra benefits (and lower price) make it a better value. I can only imagine that whatever is causing our engines to run smoother and idle better will probably also equate to extra power once tuned properly for the larger injectors.
Obviously this is a canned tune and won't produce any big HP numbers to brag about, but to get the injector/tune combo for less than $400 I really don't think there is a better value upgrade you could do to this car for overall driveability and enjoyment once you have the intake/pulley (if you DD your mini). Not just for the extra power and safety with the pulley but for the way it transforms the car. Obviously if money is no object go with 550's, an RMW header, BVH, custom RMW tune, blah blah blah.... But if you're like me and you bought the mini because it's a cheap fun car (cheap being the keyword) you may not want to spend $6k+ upgrading your car that's sadly probably not even worth $6k only to get smoked in a drag race with any modern sports car (or lightly tuned turbo car) (or your neighbor's 320hp v6 minivan). The mini is all about having fun (not winning drag races...) and, at least for me, smoothing out the previously un-smooth idle and jerky power delivery has made it A LOT more fun to drive!! (That's not to say, however, that I probably won't eventually end up with all of those expensive power mods I just mentioned )
My .02
-Dave
Last edited by bimmadave; Apr 23, 2017 at 01:21 AM.
I did buy them and they seem to work perfectly. It's only been a day, so I will report more at the end of the week. The article link below and the associated part numbers led me to these. They do require a pig tail adapter(s) to the wiring harness which is pretty cheap. Less than 130$ for everything. Hell of a lot better than 400-500$. They are exactly the same length as the OEM injectors but the injector is not as fat as OEM. These injectors came packaged as brand new in Bosch boxes and sealed poly bags with plastic caps to protect the ends.
Considering the function of the injectors is also to properly cool combustion chambers as well as having proper atomization for complete burning, and when considering the cost of a new engine that has heat spike cycles due to forced induction of an attached supercharger, I would be somewhat hesitant at being a test pilot using VOLVO parts in a MINI.
Guess it all depends on how big of a wallet one has.
Any differences you are experiencing are due to their being new/new seals. Until the new injectors are coded to the car, they will only pulse as same rate as the stock injectors. To obtain the benefits of being a 380 injector you would need to have a RMW or similar tune, or JCW tune from dealer. And since they are not JCW injectors, they (dealer) may be hesitant in doing so for liability reasons.
As raven stated there is science behind specific injectors and optimal spray patterns. Will it blow up your engine? Probably not, but why risk anything.
Considering the function of the injectors is also to properly cool combustion chambers as well as having proper atomization for complete burning, and when considering the cost of a new engine that has heat spike cycles due to forced induction of an attached supercharger, I would be somewhat hesitant at being a test pilot using VOLVO parts in a MINI.
Guess it all depends on how big of a wallet one has.
Any differences you are experiencing are due to their being new/new seals. Until the new injectors are coded to the car, they will only pulse as same rate as the stock injectors. To obtain the benefits of being a 380 injector you would need to have a RMW or similar tune, or JCW tune from dealer. And since they are not JCW injectors, they (dealer) may be hesitant in doing so for liability reasons.
First off, I don't agree with your "heat spike cycles" theory that seems to suggest that adding a small amount of extra fuel will somehow damage an engine. First of all, these injectors flow ~10% more fuel than the stock injectors (Stock "330cc" injectors have been flow tested to actually flow more like 345-350cc). This really only matters at WOT since in closed loop mode (when all of the sensors are being used by the engine for tuning - pretty much any time you're not at WOT) the ECU can already trim the fuel to achieve normal mileage, throttle response, and target AFR's. This is precisely why you can run these 380cc injectors (but nothing larger) without throwing codes - because they are within the ECU's ability to trim fuel to achieve desired AFR's. That being said, all engines add extra fuel and run pig rich when detonation or "knock" is detected for this very cylinder cooling effect in an effort to SAVE the engine from damage. This is obviously happening when the cylinders are at their absolute HOTTEST and they are being cooled back down to normal temperatures with fuel - without any ill side effects or weakening of the cylinder walls from the rapid heat changes.
Not to mention, guys have been injecting water and various alcohols (the most common being methanol) into their engines for decades to achieve a cylinder cooling effect (which is FAR more substantial than a 10% increase in injected fuel) and most automotive engineers (as well as people who have ACTUALLY done this) consider this cooling effect to be a SAFETY feature. This would not be the case if cooling the cylinders somehow caused some kind of weakening of the cylinder walls and eventual major engine damage.
That being said, these injectors are made by bosch... Bosch manufactures OEM parts for almost every auto manufacturer on earth, and there are hundreds of bosch branded parts in every BMW and MINI. Bosch has a worldwide reputation for OEM quality and reliability.
Every engine is designed for a specific fuel injector (plug style, static flow rate, spray pattern/angle, impedance, etc) but that absolutely does not mean that there aren't 2 engines out there that were designed to use the same spec injectors. If you do some research, you will find that these bosch injectors match the OEM JCW injectors in every spec but one - they use the EV6 plug instead of the EV1 (hence the adapters). So if they match in specs, and are made by a reputable company, tell me... how are they going to hurt anything!?
Just becase there are volvos out there that happen to use the same specs does NOT make these "volvo injectors" and it certainly does not mean that they are not safe to use with other engines.
Which reminds me... You might also be aware that many people with built R53's use bosch 550cc injectors because they are highly recommended by the most reputable MINI tuners out there... mainly because these ALSO match the length, spray pattern, and impedance as the MINI injectors (and by the way, these also require the EV6 to EV1 adapter harnesses) yet nobody seems to mind that they are made by bosch instead of the OEM supplier, Siemens. Guess what... The bosch 550cc injectors that people have been running for years are actually manufactured by bosch for use in a 2007-2012 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500. Does that make them "Mustang Injectors"? Absolutely not. Injectors are injectors. It's the specs that count.
So if you trust a bosch 550cc with identical specs to the MINI injectors, why not trust a matching bosch 380cc too?
I do agree though that the engine should definitely be tuned. I do not recommend running 380's with stock software, and never have, but mainly just because I like power and even a small loss at WOT seems to be counterproductive. Although it seems to run GREAT with these, it would obviously run better and certainly make more power if flashed with a tune meant for 380cc injectors.
That's just me though... many people have reported using JCW injectors with the stock tune for years without any issues whatsoever. Obviously this depends on your tune and your particular engine - if you are running lean then these will HELP without tuning, but if you aren't then they will make you run rich and lose power.
Since these are identical to the siemens JCW injectors in specs, I don't see how the results could be any different. Hopefully more and more people will try these and report on them, and I don't doubt it because they are less than 1/5 the cost of JCW injectors... but so far I've seen at least a dozen reports from people using these bosch injectors and everyone (including myself) have been seeing nothing but amazing results. I suppose time will tell though.
Like all other types of change, it seems people tend to respond with skepticism, fear, and a negative attitude when asked to accept something new. If you believe that there is a REAL scientific reason (based on facts, not fear) not to use these injectors, I would like to hear it. I'm not married to them. But given that in theory (same specs) they will work, and in practice (the observed results) they DO work, I'd say it's pretty much an open-and-shut case. They work!
AND if it will help to clear up the skepticism... I intend to get my car tuned by Jan at RMW in person on the dyno in Orange County soon (possibly next month). I'll speak with him about these injectors and I'll post the dyno charts that show the results with them in my car. Obviously if the engine runs smooth as butter and the power results are on-par with other cars with similar mods, I'd say these injectors will have been empirically proven to work.
Then again...If the power/tq numbers are really low, or my engine spontaneously explodes before then... I will be eating some serious crow.
Originally Posted by bavmotors
As raven stated there is science behind specific injectors and optimal spray patterns. Will it blow up your engine? Probably not, but why risk anything.
Why risk it? The DRAMATIC difference in cost between these and the OEM units, of course!! $650 for a set of injectors is absolutely insane. That's half the cost of a TPR1 head!! And to be fair, I just noticed in your sig that you have a lightweight crank pulley... There's been a LOT of controversy and negative opinions on those (even from VERY experienced MINI dealers like WMW) saying that they are dangerous and cause rapid engine wear... and yet you risked MAJOR engine failure by installing one!!! Most people have had no issues with them, but if you do some research you will find TONS of people with no experience using them spewing fear-derived warnings not to use them. That being said, I assume you have had no issues... but I hope it at least puts this issue into perspective.
There absolutely IS science behind the injectors. The same science that the engineers who determined the best injector style to use in the MINI no doubt followed when they chose the best specs to use. The mini uses a dual-cone spray pattern with 20 degree separation (due to the separated channels in the cylinder head leading to the valves) and a 12 ohm impedance. Nobody suggested that you could just throw any old injector in a MINI and roll with it. However, these SPECIFIC bosch injectors have been chosen because they are identical to the JCW injectors in their flow rate, impedence, spray pattern, and length AND they come from a reputable manufacturer.
I really do understand, guys... If money were no object we would just buy the oem $650 JCW units, or heck, better yet just get a BVH, cam, header, and go with 550's and get an RMW tune!! But not everyone has big $$ to spend on their mini. This is obviously a low budget solution intended for those who mod on a budget. But as we all know when it comes to auto parts... more expensive does not always mean better, since manufacturers love to squeeze whatever amount of money they think you will pay for their goods. After all, some of the genuine mini (basically genuine BMW) parts have got to be marked up 5,000% above cost!! Or more!!
Obviously the OEM units are a safer bet. But if these work, then they work... and at a fraction of the price. Hopefully as more and more guys on a budget try them out and report positive results, this stigma against low price non-genuine mini parts will be lifted. The 550's have already earned a solid reputation... and it's only a matter of time before these 380's do too.
Good stuff, I did a lot of reading before I bought these. I would say a good years worth of studying to learn more about the specifics of the Minis engine. I have replaced or removed a ton of parts from my car. I didn't buy the injectors on a whim. The high price for name brand 380cc injectors is not worth the minor improvements they bring and if Bosch or any other company can make the exact same product for one fifth the price then I would say a whole lot of Mini fans got ripped off buying something that says JCW on the box sticker. Same goes for a lot of JCW branded bits or Mini branded bits in general.60$ cup holder anyone? My Mini is 11 years old with 85k miles. My goal is to try and break it because it's fun to tinker with it. It will never be worth much, it wasn't designed to last more than 15 years. It will never be a collectors item and I won't be buried in it, so I say lighten up and have some fun with it. If the Bosch Volvo injectors do hit the self destruct button maybe I'll just turn it into a rear wheel drive electric car!!!
One last turn of the screw, let's face it there is going to be a lot of broken stuff on your Mini by 50k miles. the Mini comes from BMW as an over techno bloated, fat, over priced, underpowered slug. Power folding mirrors, heated seats, 400 lbs of plastic, touch screen nonsense. It should be offered at minimum like the original car as a lightweight, simple, no nonsense, inexpensive, practical but fun car. Instead it is over engineered and frought with silly stuff that breaks way too often. I mean a crank pulley that fails at 40,000 miles is absurd. Sloppy timing chains riding on plastic guides... a few weird fuel injectors ain't gonna hurt it.
Last edited by Grandtheftfu; Apr 23, 2017 at 07:45 PM.
First off, I don't agree with your "heat spike cycles" theory that seems to suggest that adding a small amount of extra fuel will somehow damage an engine. .
Where did you read that ?
Heat spike cycles are created by forced induction not fuel. During those cycles you NEED the extra fuel to COOL things down, or you be a test pilot and blow'r up...
If these injectors are not suited to the N11 engine, it's make up, and ability to meet demands of the engine, well....good luck !!
The 550 Bosch injectors and alike you refer to have been time proven to work ( Most cases ). And, in some engines eventually suffered major malfunction. Maybe from the injectors, maybe not. Maybe just a bad tune. Maybe just due to owner having lots of $$ to spend while pushing the limits of their engine in other ways.
If one wishes to drop a cam, headers, exhaust, 550 injectors they have reached a point of no return, and probably no intent of return. That said, your original post was not in reference to adding 380s to a modded engine, but more in reference to a daily driver absent the super mods. Same results easily achievable by replacing old injectors or going with Factory JCW 380's. Which in a majority of cases, those with 380's will typically seek a JCW flash from Dealer. But if using Volvo injectors, will meet resistance due to liability.
I appreciate your research, but stand by what I previously stated and in context of how originally presented in this thread. Re-read first post/title.
Hey guys any updates on these after running them for a while now? Also they are on sale for 25.00 bucks each at the original link with free shipping so i pulled the trigger.
Its running great , no hesitation , alot smoother than when i had the oem ! they looked like crap when I pulled them off .
thank you very much, I appreciate you getting back to me. I will go and order them now. Except for the eva6 to eva1 is there any other modification? Can I use the o-rings that come with the injectors. Did you get a tune? I'm using a 17percent pulley and MSd coils
