Some excellent responses to this topic. I think the fact that BMW has announced the new engine will significantly affect the market. We have about one or two more years of performance parts available for the current engine. After the turbo comes out, we will see very little if any development of engine based performance parts. I doubt people will spend a lot of money developing stuff like CAMS and ECU's if they know they have about one or two more years of product life. Especially since the consensus among everyone is that return on investment is one of the main limiting factors.

I think with the introduction of the turbo engine, JCW will be significantly curtailed. The turbo market is very mature and prices are very cheap in relation to turbo based performance upgrades. I don't think the high prices propagated by JCW will be able to bear in the market. I know warranty means alot, but the more and more people continue to upgrade, with very little if any issues, people will be more prone to skip the warranty route.

I was looking at performance parts for cars like the SRT-4 (which only 5,000 were made the first year and 13,000 the second year, about 30% as much as the Mini in the US), and I was amazed at the pricing. You can get a Borla exhaust for the SRT-4 for $350. Computer chips are in the $200-$300 range, with much better performance numbers than the Mini. While you can spend $800 for a Unichip and maybe get 10hp, you can spend $250 on an SRT-4 chip and get a real 20hp-30hp. In fact, Mopar sells a chip for $350 that gives 20hp "real hp". By real I mean, many, many 3rd party dyno graphs have proven the claim. I would have hoped to have seen these same numbers in the Mini market. It would have been nice to see BMW/Mini take an existing engine on the market (one with a good performance base) and incorporate it into the new Mini. That would have provided a large wealth of material for the enthusiast market.

 

P&D is about to release its top-mount, air to air intercooler. TIG welded, pressure formed, streamlined end tanks and plate and bar construction core (supposedly a better design than fin and tube). This is based on the unit we ran at SPI, where we measured a 10 hp increase on his dyno, backed up by before and after runs with the stock unit.


I'll post a pic in a day or so.

As far as developing new parts, consider this tale:
to make the intercooler reasonably priced, assuming a few hundred might be the production target, we have to buy cores in bulk and figure out the forms and the best production scheme for the end tanks. What we are doing is hydroforming the tanks in house, an interesting process using 30 tons of force, about 2,000 psi. Developing that method produced about 50 rejects before we got just what we wanted, even though we are using two CNC machines and about $20,000 worth of CAD/CAM software. Target retail price should be about $700 which is cutting a pretty slim profit margin.

Stay tuned.

 

Good points DG and I was hoping someone might bring up the SRT-4 aftermarket situation. I had heard a few things such as the 20 Hp $350 FACTORY chip but was unsure about the rest. They make all the other companies look like price gougers for one and afraid to see their cars in a true performance environment for others. They are actively telling their buyers to go out, have fun and use the cars as they were intended which as we all know is not the case with most other brands. Another one that is charging a lot for a little is the Nismo product line for the 350Z . I a recent article in Sports Compact Car they did a complete Nismo upgrade with what I would call shameful results. Intake $ 350, Headers $1,269, Exhaust 1,100, Cams $ 1600 plus a 16 hrs install time for the cam and headers alone equaled TEN hp increase on the magazines dyno. Now Nismo CLAIMS 23 hp increase which in itself still a embarrassment IMHO when compared to the SRT-4 for example. Those kind of numbers make even the JCW package look reasonable . In any event the next year should be a interesting one as their are a number of break thru items in the works on many fronts. Keep the faith the good times they are a commin

Randy
Team M7

www.M7tuning.com

 

that's some pricey cad/cam software. is it special?

 

shees my alias wavefront program im running on my personal computer is about 40,000 dollers and if anyone wants a prototype made im up for hire,

the things you can do with that system is crazy!!!!

 

we use Gibbs Cam, $6,000, Autocad 2004, $3,000 and Mastercam, $15,000.

 

hmm. 800cc displacement just MIGHT account for the tuning differences chip-wise.

but yeah, the exhausts are way overpriced.

Marty

 

Now, a lot of people on this post, said that high priced items with little to no innovation is a result of small shops having to cater to a small market. It is now interesting some of the information going on over at the Alta Intercooler thread (https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...3&page=3&pp=25)


On this thread Alta has stated that they sell 75 intercoolers a month. Granted this may be over both their Subaru and Mini business, but that should show even more that they share their development costs across two development lines. This is really common for a lot of the manufacturers out there. There are very few developing exclusively for the new Mini. Most are in both the new Mini and the old Mini, or BMW, or Subaru/Evo, or other performance cars. Of course on this thread the Alta intercooler has been mentioned here as well as other threads as being a high cost item, because of the low demand for these. I am not trying to pick on Alta since I still think it is indicative across the board from a number of manufacturers. 75 intercoolers a month should equate to roughly $75,000 a month or about $900,000 a year. Again, possibly over two cars, but still the manufacturing costs, I am sure are shared to a point. That to me is not such a low market niche item. PWR will custom design an intercooler for you for $595, GSR creates them on a much smaller scale as Alta for $700. I really don't think the high price is attributed solely to the fact that this is a niche market. If it truly costs these companies a lot of money to make these products, then they may not be making it correctly.

Again, not a rip on Alta. A lot of manufacturers do the same thing. Exhausts for example can be double for a Mini than they are for smaller niche markets. I really think the Mini community is loosing a lot from this practice. And I think the fact that the engine is changing in a couple of years will not help us any and may even leave the supercharged crowd "out in the rain". If you don't believe me, we have seen this with the exhausts. Some manufacturers have not upgraded their exhausts for the new 2004 hangers, and they may never change them.

There are some good manufacturers trying to bring things to market, and a few innovative ones, but they are small in number compared to both the total and the range of other businesses for other makes and models. Sure there are some turbo kits that sound like they are coming out, but why will they continue to R&D them, when the next car in two years will have a turbo.

I really like the supercharged engine, because I like the results of a supercharged engine, but I think the products will die out fast, considering the poor quality of a large amount of the items available after 2.5 years of the car. I think there will be a lot more products and performance items for the turbo charged engine. Although I think there would have been even more if BMW had chosen an engine already on the market with a large following.

 

Hi guys...

Just wanted to give you my perspective on the new Mini engine that will be here in a couple of years.....
I have not spent more then 2 minutes if even...worrying, contemplating
or planing for what products I will dream up for that platform.

The reality is now , supercharging is now, new ideas for the current platform
are viable today, make exciting products now and and worry about Turbo
engines tomorrow...

We at Team M7 will have some kick *** products coming to market no matter
what tomorrow brings. :smile:

As a matter of fact we have something very exciting to share tomorrow.
Something to cool down your steed tremendously....and it will not cost an arm and a leg . We will have All sorts of numbers and pictures for you
to peruse tomorrow night....

peter

Team M7

www.m7tuning.com

 

C'mon.

Looking forward to seeing what you have to offer.

 

In the next few years there should be a lot more Mini's on the road to help support the aftermarket. I can't wait for the day when companies like Comp Cams and Crane are offering cams, and Edlebrock and Trick flow offer brand new head castings with bigger valves and better flow. I bet we will will even see stroker kits as more and more Mini get past the warranty. I have been involved with hot rodding cars for years and the aftermarket doesn't really kick into gear until younger buyers are snapping up high mileage used cars at reasonable prices.

I personally think that the aftermarket has done a great job considering the number of cars out there and that it has only been about two years with almost every car on the road still under warranty.

 

Identical to the stock hose.

 

lol i dont know why but that post was just to funny andy!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by M7
We will have All sorts of numbers and pictures for you
to peruse tomorrow night....

peter

Team M7

www.m7tuning.com
what was it? the thermostat?