Has anyone install a limited slip diff ? if so how is it working and did you get a lot more traction.
I should have mention what have been done to S it has 1. Big valve port & polish head. 2. port & polish intake. 3. 63mm throttle boby 4. Headers 5. Dual exhaust from Germany 6. shark injector. 7. Cool air. 8. 19% pulley. 9. ebrack spring. 10. EBC rotors 11. Green stuff pads.
The car will break away at 20 mph if you floor pedal.

 

Showvan,

Aloha and welcome to NAM.

While the Quaife LSD is available for both MC and MCS it is costly ($1100 for the part and $900 to $1500 for labor). Some people add a racing clutch and lightweight flywheel ($500) since it can be added under the same labor costs.

You have to find someone that knows how to do the install and not just anyone, It is an upgrade that will void your transmission warranty but the Quaife itself has a warranty.

Does it really make a difference? I'd say that it depends on what you want to do with your MINI.

For street driving- save your money. You won't notice much in straight line pickup and there is a little gain on hard cornering but you do not get to drive on the street hard enough to make a difference.

For autocross it would be OK and does allow for better traction accelerating out of corners. However there are limiting factors-
First- your tires need to be good and sticky, preferably track R-compound tires in order for the power to transfer to the ground in an efficient way. If you have runflats then the effect of the LSD isn't going to be as strong.
Second- your suspension needs to be tuned for autocross with adjustments made for the lack of negative camber in the front end of the MINI and alignment done that will help allow the MINI to corner with speed and make use of that LSD.
Third- You need some power to make that LSD work so a pulley upgraded MCS would have more benefit than a stock MC would (at least that you could notice).

For track- it is good for going fast out of corners. Similar concerns about tuning your MINI for best results.

Given the high cost I don't think I can advise MINI owners to get it unless they are committed to matching other upgrades to get the most out of the LSD. Figure $2500+ to install plus no transmission warranty.I don't think I can advise it for an MC.

I think you could get pretty good results by tuning the suspension and choosing good tires alone.

 

or you could just trade in for the new and improved 2005' MINI S.

it will be available with LSD

looks like i decided to buy one just in time

 

Is it true that a Quaife weighs about 15 lbs? That's a fair amount for something that doesn't seem to offer a noteworthy difference (as minihune explained). When I look at cost - I look beyond price, weight being one factor...

 

I installed a Quaiffe in my 2002 MINI Cooper S and there was definitely an improvement both in straightline performance as well as cornering. I ran the MINI in PBOC's 2003 club race series. Transmission was rock solid for the entire season with no troubles at all. Still running perfectly too!
Suspension upgrades are a definite plus with any MINI as metioned above. Sway bars and camber adjustment should be first in line for change if your looking for improvements in handling.

 

I have also heard that there is a less expensive LSD available that is not a torque sensing type like the quaife. Anyone know about it or have used it?

 

Quick note..Just weighed the stock differential - 10lbs (Bathroom scale)

 

Yes, the Quaife is heavy but not that much more weight than the stock differential. The dimensions are roughly the same as are the materials. So I don't think that weight is much of a factor.

I think your perceived gains from a Quaife would be more with a stock MCS and less with a highly modded pullied MCS. The Quaife probably could provide slightly faster 0-60 times but for autocross with speeds more in the 40-45 mph range it's more of the cornering speed and traction that is of advantage. Still the gains are maybe 1-2 seconds tops on a 60 second course and probably a half second with a good driver.
For competitive drivers a half second is a big difference.

Durability is rock solid no question.

I've had the quaife for about one month and taken it to the track once and autocross twice. Although initially I thought it was pulling stronger I don't know how much more is due to the LSD alone vs the power of a 19% pulley with light wheels. It's not easy to tell because it's really fast either way. I did find that my street tires and suspension were not up to the task in autocross and on the track. I was getting some slipping and I know I could have kept more speed with sticker tires.

So I have Kumho victoracers to use for track and autocross and I'm adding camber plates to the front end to adjust negative camber to - 2.2 degrees from the -0.5 degree I have now. And I'm doing alignment to match toe and rear camber to my front camber.

This is just an example of when you have enough power and try to deliver it you must make sure that your other mods are up to the task. For a MCS without the pulley the balance of power might be better and the effects of a Quaife would be easier to detect.

My thought on power was given the reduction pulley, I could not get all of the power to the wheels evenly at all times so to maximize that I added the LSD. Still, the tires have to be working so that is how the track tires are helpful.

The MINI still does fairly well with street tires but you'd have to be going pretty hard to appreciate what the LSD can do vs just the pulley upgrade and lighter wheels.

 

5lbs difference (lsd versus stock diff) out of a 2600+lb car...do you think 5, 10, 15 or even 50lbs matter? You do the math...

Now save 50lbs of unsprung weight and that's a different story...

 

I highly recommend it if you have the means.

I have had it for two months now, and 4 autocross events. It made an immense difference on a course, from launch to every corner to finish.

I enjoy the benefits in daily driving, from stop light launches to hard cornering, its how I drive the car and why it has Khumo MX tires for daily use. I push the limits on every corner and curve.

I can't believe a sporty/handling car like the MINI did not have one stock. It's even more necessary as you add mods... the more horsepower, the more noticeable the problem with an open differential.

 

With only a 5lb delta, and if it really does make a difference, I'm certainly willing to consider it! It's one of those things - while "in there" might as well take care of everything (clutch and flywheel also). I've been interesed for quite a while and actually started a thread inquiring about those who did this upgrade in CA. I'm concerned about smog... yes, smog.

With my old Subaru that I recently smogged, it was allowed to bypass the dyno that we have in CA starting this year b/c it is AWD. Cars with factory LSD are also allowed to test the "old" way due to complications from the LSD. Upon inquiring about adding an LSD to "my other car," he said that if you add it, and then it can't be tested as it should (by what the computer says), I've made it illegal. Certainly a reason for some concern...

And to top it off, even though my Subaru didn't use the dyno, I was still charged the higher rate for such testing for amortization purposes. That really sucks. At least it passed though...

 

I've got the Phantom Grip. While I agree with everyone that it makes little difference on the street, with the exception of the traction control kicking in less often it makes a difference in autocross and a HUGE difference in track. I was at the track for the first time with it a couple of weeks ago. Went out with a buddy in a similar modded MCS ahead of me who used to be a professional racer (Speedvision Cup, Formula Ford, etc) and I was keeping up with him everywhere on track and at the S curves I would gain around 5-6 car lengths just like that. He doesn't have an LSD and couldn't get the power down in the s-curves where I could gently mash the trottle and blast out of the corners.

However if you just street your car it's a waste.

Paul

 

I can vouch for Paul's LSD on the track, I was chasing him and the pro drivers, you could see how his car would just hook up coming out of the corners. While the 3 of us open diff cars were really struggling to get the power down. I was behind Paul for a bit and could really see the difference, I'm a late braker and could catch up through the turns but once coming out he would hook up and take off like a bat out of hell (Paul, you're going down next time and you know it ). It was a nice day the four of us have our cars set up a little differently from each other, and we are all running different sets of R compounds. Paul with the Kuhmo Victoracers, Shel (pro #1) on Toyo RA1s, Richard (pro #2) on Yok A032Rs, and myself on Hankook Z211s. all of us on 225/50/15 on 15"x7" wheels. I need to catch up on the mod game though, everytime we go out together there is something new done to their cars Last year the cars were pretty much even. Now where is that swaybar....grrrr

Amit

 

so... this is positive feedback on the phatom grip eh? I have heard nothing but bad things, til now.

 

We have had past discussions and thread about the phantom grip before.

Paulmon had a good experience on the track. Put him into a MCS with Quaife and see how it feels to him.

The phantom grip is much less expensive (for the part).
It might provide for measurable improvement on the track.
Remember what you are using the LSD for- it'll make a bigger difference on a long or curvy track than at driving school or on a lower speed autocross.
For most autocross events we are looking at a few seconds gain or even less than a second with a good driver on a course that takes a minute to do.

My question would be the long term durability of the phantom grip and what effect would it have on the rest of the MINI (transmission, etc). You don't generally get something for less and not pay for it in the end. The Quaife has a lifetime warranty on the part (raced or not). It's durable.

I think if you are considering Quaife you have to think about what you are using the MINI for and if that use justifies the cost of adding LSD.

 

Long term with the Phantom Grip is a slight issue. From what i've heard it needs adjustment over time which requires to open up the transmission again. I guess if you are using your car aggressively in track situations you would have an oppourtunity to adjust it when you change out your clutch. It's a low cost solution with a big installation cost. I guess value depends on how long you plan on keeping the car and how aggressive you are driving. I know Paul was fortunate to get it done for free, otherwise I believe he would have probably eventually gone with the Quaife route. I think i'm going to hold out and see the cost of the factory option. If it's the right price i'll option it on when I switch to an '05.

cheers

Amit

 

Seems to work. The main issue with the Quaife is that it's torque biasing so that if you loose 100% of the power to a particular wheel it's not going to help you. In the case of the phantom grip it locks. If I had installed it myself I would have gone Quaife regarless of that but since it was part of my 15 minutes of fame from Tuner Transformation I'm happy. However I do worry as is mentioned, about long term durability of the tranny. I'm toying with the idea of trading my '02 JCW in for an '05 with MINI's LSD. We'll see.

Paul