Drivetrain Help with JCW Tune
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 272
Likes: 1
From: back at my crib
i see you fixed your little typographical error. a man of your caliber should not be seen making a mistake! also i do hope you like my new location, twas tailored just for you <3
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 647
Likes: 1
From: Indy
Back on topic (if anybody still cares), back in about '08 I had Way put a canned tune on my (then stock) '06 JCW. he raised the redline, bumped power a little (safely, just not quite so pig-rich) and tweaked the throttle response. It was not as expensive back then, but it was a definite improvement over the factory JCW tune, ESPECIALLY in the throttle response (and accompanying improvement in reduced traction control intrusiveness) so from that POV I'd say yes, Way's tune is worth more than the factory JCW. Earlier this week I got a RMW remote tune since finalizing my most recent upgrades, and that was also an amazing improvement, totally smoothed out power delivery and ~+20 HP.
So in terms of relative worth, yes, a good canned tune is worth more than a factory JCW tune, and a real dyno tune is worth more still. Where you fall on the value:cost ratio is a personal decision.
Edit: When somebody mentioned that the ~$300 range was getting into the cost of a dyno tune, that is not quite accurate. Jan charges $350 for a tune, but that's for *his* time; you still have to arrange and pay for dyno time separately. I got a deal on dyno time; I was there for 2.5 hours and got 6 pulls total but he only charged me for an hour of dyno time because I did the flashing myself and held the fan, squirted water on intercooler, etc. myself, so his actual time involved was not as much as the time my car was strapped down, and there was nobody else waiting that day, but still my dyno tune ended up just south of $500, and could easily have been more if I'd paid full price for the dyno time.
So in terms of relative worth, yes, a good canned tune is worth more than a factory JCW tune, and a real dyno tune is worth more still. Where you fall on the value:cost ratio is a personal decision.
Edit: When somebody mentioned that the ~$300 range was getting into the cost of a dyno tune, that is not quite accurate. Jan charges $350 for a tune, but that's for *his* time; you still have to arrange and pay for dyno time separately. I got a deal on dyno time; I was there for 2.5 hours and got 6 pulls total but he only charged me for an hour of dyno time because I did the flashing myself and held the fan, squirted water on intercooler, etc. myself, so his actual time involved was not as much as the time my car was strapped down, and there was nobody else waiting that day, but still my dyno tune ended up just south of $500, and could easily have been more if I'd paid full price for the dyno time.
Last edited by PrplPplEtr; Oct 10, 2013 at 03:02 PM.
Yes that is exactly how I feel that is why I wrote it, and I am sure that the software WAS very expensive, and I am sure that your local $tealer$hip, might of have been charging that at one time or another (I will call tomorrow and find out), but it is a sell/buyer market and if you do not roll with the changes you will lose customers as the economy sucks and people are going to search out the best deal.
I can also tell you that I am not the only one that feels this way, as I received several private messages from other NAM Menebers telling be that they are in the same position they would like the work, but the cost is just too high.
Now I do believe that you do your best to get the ECU turned around ASAP, that I would not doubt in the least, and I am even sure that your tune is better then the JCW as I am sure that the JCW is a little more conservative and setup for the type of person that buys performance at the $teal$hip, your general customer is not that person, they want more for less.
You provide a good service and have been doing so for a long time, BUT and this is a BIG BUT, times will change and that software will get into the wild eventually, and when it does, that service will be no longer of any real value. I am pretty sure that your EXPENSIVE software has paid for it self many times over, and I would not expect you to not make money other wise why be in business, but provide a service at a good price, and dont charge your price based on what a multimillion dollar $teal$hip is getting for the service, YOU ARE NOT THEM.
I can also tell you that I am not the only one that feels this way, as I received several private messages from other NAM Menebers telling be that they are in the same position they would like the work, but the cost is just too high.
Now I do believe that you do your best to get the ECU turned around ASAP, that I would not doubt in the least, and I am even sure that your tune is better then the JCW as I am sure that the JCW is a little more conservative and setup for the type of person that buys performance at the $teal$hip, your general customer is not that person, they want more for less.
You provide a good service and have been doing so for a long time, BUT and this is a BIG BUT, times will change and that software will get into the wild eventually, and when it does, that service will be no longer of any real value. I am pretty sure that your EXPENSIVE software has paid for it self many times over, and I would not expect you to not make money other wise why be in business, but provide a service at a good price, and dont charge your price based on what a multimillion dollar $teal$hip is getting for the service, YOU ARE NOT THEM.
And he KNOWS HOW TO GET YOU WHAT YOU WANT WHEN THE DEALER CANNOT!!
WHY get mad at him? Tough day at work?
My dyno tune was about $450....
$350 for the tune, $100 (1 hr) of dyno time at a tune event...
Tunes are not cheap....the JCW tune can SOMETIMES be had kinda cheap...but not as much of a gain as most canned or custom tunes.....
$350 for the tune, $100 (1 hr) of dyno time at a tune event...
Tunes are not cheap....the JCW tune can SOMETIMES be had kinda cheap...but not as much of a gain as most canned or custom tunes.....
4th Gear
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 378
Likes: 1
Back on topic (if anybody still cares), back in about '08 I had Way put a canned tune on my (then stock) '06 JCW. he raised the redline, bumped power a little (safely, just not quite so pig-rich) and tweaked the throttle response. It was not as expensive back then, but it was a definite improvement over the factory JCW tune, ESPECIALLY in the throttle response (and accompanying improvement in reduced traction control intrusiveness) so from that POV I'd say yes, Way's tune is worth more than the factory JCW. Earlier this week I got a RMW remote tune since finalizing my most recent upgrades, and that was also an amazing improvement, totally smoothed out power delivery and ~+20 HP.
So in terms of relative worth, yes, a good canned tune is worth more than a factory JCW tune, and a real dyno tune is worth more still. Where you fall on the value:cost ratio is a personal decision.
Edit: When somebody mentioned that the ~$300 range was getting into the cost of a dyno tune, that is not quite accurate. Jan charges $350 for a tune, but that's for *his* time; you still have to arrange and pay for dyno time separately. I got a deal on dyno time; I was there for 2.5 hours and got 6 pulls total but he only charged me for an hour of dyno time because I did the flashing myself and held the fan, squirted water on intercooler, etc. myself, so his actual time involved was not as much as the time my car was strapped down, and there was nobody else waiting that day, but still my dyno tune ended up just south of $500, and could easily have been more if I'd paid full price for the dyno time.
So in terms of relative worth, yes, a good canned tune is worth more than a factory JCW tune, and a real dyno tune is worth more still. Where you fall on the value:cost ratio is a personal decision.
Edit: When somebody mentioned that the ~$300 range was getting into the cost of a dyno tune, that is not quite accurate. Jan charges $350 for a tune, but that's for *his* time; you still have to arrange and pay for dyno time separately. I got a deal on dyno time; I was there for 2.5 hours and got 6 pulls total but he only charged me for an hour of dyno time because I did the flashing myself and held the fan, squirted water on intercooler, etc. myself, so his actual time involved was not as much as the time my car was strapped down, and there was nobody else waiting that day, but still my dyno tune ended up just south of $500, and could easily have been more if I'd paid full price for the dyno time.
There is really nothing that you have said that I would disagree with, I would gladly pay for a custom tune, and Yes I know that Jan/RMW gets $350.oo for the tune (& $500 for 2nd Gens).
And someday I still hope to have it done, I have NO PROBLEM paying for someone to do work that is a skill, I am a skilled worker and I expect to get paid for my time, but lets be totally honest a Jan/RMW custom tune @ $350 (plus Dyno time) vs $255 (plus the 15 shipping which I am sure is not Next Day Air, so assuming you pay that on both ends add another $60 to $80) the WAY canned tune is OVER-PRICED, not to mention that you will have down time and you do not get to see the Before & After Results unless you want to pay for two trips to the Dyno. Lets not even mention the Price for him putting a JCW (stolen) software tune on your ECU.
See paying for MINI to do the flash was just like you paying for WAY to do the flash back in 08' if I could get the complete custom tune right now I would, I just cant as there is no one here to do it. The Dyno is no big deal, a local shop told me that if Jan is there they will let me use the Dyno till the job is done for $100.oo they just want to do the strap down and he can operate the Dyno.
SOOoooo I was going to get a little boost for now with the JCW/Factory Tune!
The point of where this ended up going is that the 'Tuner's' I feel all charge to much but at least the custom tune is just that "Custom". A canned tune is something that they have very little invested other than some risk, and the initial cost of the software, this hold true for ALL of them, I can buy the DIM SPORT programming software today Unlocked with a Laptop for about 2k$. So how do you justify $255.oo for a canned tune, that he has had the software for 5 years now (amortize that out and tell me what you get assuming that he only did 10 canned tunes a year since 08')?
I'll tell ya' what, Mr. Brimley, here's what we'll do; I'll go ahead and keep on building, maintaining, modifying and tuning my own cars with my own hands, and you, you can continue dropping yours off at a shop and pretending that just because you loiter in a garage bay and have your noggin stuck up the shop owners proverbial ***, that you'll somehow absorb his knowledge and skills through osmosis. I don't know who you are, and I'm not the least bit interested.
Sorry for the thread mess, cOop3r. I'm sure Way's canned tunes are better than the factory JCW one, but that's expected. I have no doubts that he'd go a bit more aggressive with AFR's, and also alter throttle response. My point was really that $400 is excessive for a factory JCW tune. It's not comparable in terms of cost, and your issue with obtaining said tune is a rare, if not altogether, isolated incident.
Last edited by TheBigChill; Oct 11, 2013 at 05:56 AM.
End result - I am pretty sure that I will have to wait, to get a tune.
But on a side note my R56 Fronts came in today, so I am almost finished with my Poor Mans JCW brake conversion, maybe I can get it done this weekend. I got the Calipers all Taken apart and painted, I will rebuild tomorrow and the Rotors and Pads show up, I already have the SS Lines.
I'll flame him.....are your serious, your car is dead at a dealership that didn't know what they were doing and you then you throw trash at a vendor trying to help you with a service that is priced to the market. I think Way has been very cordial in dealing with someone of your caliber. If I were him (and by the way I own my own business) my response to you would have been for you to take a flying f*** at the moon.
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 647
Likes: 1
From: Indy
yes, at the time my butt dyno was quite impressed. No question about smoothness especially at part throttle and lower rpms, no question about improved throttle response, and no question that DSC off became optional instead of mandatory as a result of Way's tune, so those were unquestioned improvements over factory JCW. In terms of "fun to drive" and "DSC doesn't suck like it used to", the canned tune trumped factory JCW handily.
4th Gear
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 378
Likes: 1
yes, at the time my butt dyno was quite impressed. No question about smoothness especially at part throttle and lower rpms, no question about improved throttle response, and no question that DSC off became optional instead of mandatory as a result of Way's tune, so those were unquestioned improvements over factory JCW. In terms of "fun to drive" and "DSC doesn't suck like it used to", the canned tune trumped factory JCW handily.
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