Local tuner Tommy Motorsports uses APEXi AFC NEO for his tunes. He said if I signed on board with him he would teach me everything I needed to know about tuning my Mini for any setup.

Am I cutting myself short with this system? Are other systems more flexible with better features?

 

well the "norm" in the mini community is to re-tune the stock ECU.
And there are reasons for this.

The stock mini ECU is an adaptive ECU. It can pull timing and fueling and uses feedback loops to hit it's pre-determined targets.

If you put a "piggyback" on the system, it works by taking the signals from the ECU and changing them slightly to get the new parameters. Problem is, it does not modify the feedback signals, as it is important for the ECU to know what the car is ACTUALLY doing.

In the mini, the stock ECU gets these feedback signals, notices that the motor is not doing what it wanted it to, and then adjusts its output signals until the feedbacks are in line with what it was originally programmed to do.

In laymen terms, the ECU will adapt over the piggyback and your car will end up running exactly like it did before the tune... more or less...

now if you do not mind going through the sequence of "clearing" your ECU adaptive memory every time you key the ignition off.. no worries.

But that is why it is standard to modify the stock ecu. By doing so you change those targets the ECU is trying to hit so the system tends to work for you instead of against you... until you change the car drastically at which point the sub routines begin to ***** at you and fight back once again. (usually only a problem for the 300+ hp cars)

at this point some people (myself included) end up getting a full-standalone ecu and take the stock one out of the equation.

ViPEC makes a "drop-in" ecu that has the stock harness on it, but you could just as well get a motec, haltech, or any other standalone ecu and wire it in yourself.

 

Unless you are willing to burn a valve, and maybe blow a piston, I would suggest getting a mini tuned by a person who has tuned lots of gen1 cars....
Tuners have come and gone, but 3 or 4 have remained, cause they do good tunes without grenadineing lots of motors....
If you have a second car, I guess it does not matter..but if you mini is your only set of wheels, I STRONGLY suggest not getting a diy setup...especially on a car with just basic bolton mods like yours.....

 

I have some of the same questions. Is something like this a full ECU replacement?

With remote tunes by good tuners costing ~$500, are these and units like them worth the extra cash?

And with the r53 many years old now, are canned tunes (selected for your cars mods) close to the effectiveness of a dyno tune?

 

The problem with canned tunes is "you just don't know".

The same exact part will effect each individual engine slightly different, a canned tune is nothing more than best guess for what "should" be happening.
A custom tune, in person or remote, is based on what is "actually" happening in your motor.

Canned tunes, while they may work, are a far greater gamble.

 

Think of a custom tune as taking wear and manufacturing variations into account...
If you have a car that has great compression, strong and tight, maybe low miles, it is much more likely to make great HP than a weak, low compression, high mile motor....
But the canned tune, just like the factory tune, MUST allow both to run OK...custom tune can make the most out of what is left of the motor and the mods...
Let's face it....
Engines tend to loose HP as they wear......
So before spending big $$$, check out your motor, do a compression/leakdown test....maybe do a dyno run, make sure the motor is worth spending more $$ on it.....

 

the APEXi AFC (which stands for Air-Fuel Controller) is a piggyback device that works in conjunction with the stock ECU. This is considered 'old school' technology b/c that what we used back in 2002/2003 to tweak the maps on the twin-charge set up. There are so many more options out there at this time.

A good remote tune would cost considerably more than $500 (some tuners would want you to rent a dyno and send them a dyno graph to tune; whereas with our system, it requires that you have a compatible AFR Kit).

The FA-Lite which has built-in data-logging capabilities, couple that with the AFR reading (which logs to the MINIPort), we do NOT require the use of a dyno. This method is much more in-depth and much more accurate than simply looking at a dyno graph and looking for dips and spikes, etc... and before any tuning is done, you should get your engine compression checked and have your mechanic check for belt tightness and air leaks.

With worn out or high mileage motors, a canned tune is not going to be very effective...

 

APEXi NEO AFC is a piggyback for OBD1 cars. Don't think for a minute that your tune will stay set. The car's stock ECU will eventually learn around it.

 

Piggyback on a MINI= FAIL......AKA UNI-CHIP...sounds like the system you are looking at is a VERY DATED unit...just a user adjustable uni-chip clone....
when it was the ONLY option, folks sometimes made it work...when they had no choice cause the cars were modified too much to run the stock program...such as twin charging, etc...
BUT remember, these cars were garage queens, weekend experiments..second or third cars......most were not daily-drivers....
But once REAL tunes became possible...they were sold cheap in the marketplace....

 

Although the original article is old, I found this archive very informative
http://www.fes-auto.com/upload/artic...ch%20Pages.pdf

 

Ahh cool.... nice article even though it is dated was like you said... still informative.

Im a very independent type. I like hanging with like minds and working on projects like everyone else. I just don't like being in a shops pocket that is in another State, Country, Galaxy, so when something goes wrong I have to depend upon them to help me and then pay them more money in doing so.
I just got out of a costly hobby but I did all my own work and enjoyed every bit of it. If something broke I accepted the fact that I broke it and it was time to man up and get another part. I did not rely on anyone but myself and if I needed help I asked. All Im saying is I do not like being a slave to a company and I want something that is going to be at least somewhat flexible and allow me to do something.

 

I'm the same way and after searching around for tuning options it seems like there are five less-than-ideal options:

1) Pay over $2000 for a complete aftermarket ECU and then pay to get a tune by a pro shop (good luck finding one in your area, only good once).
2) Pay for the software and hardware to DIY a map and risk blowing your engine if you aren't a pro.
3) Pay upwards of $1000 for a pro-tuned map installed to the stock ECU and developed on a real dyno (again, good luck finding one and if you go this route, it's once good once.)
4) Pay upwards of $1000 to get a canned tune programmed into your ECU and then take it to a dyno to prove, verify and test the result.
5) Get screwed by either getting a crap ECU device, running the stock tune with mods, or getting a tune from a crap tuner.

Personally, I'm opting for option 4 because I can prove the results by buying time at the local dyno for $100 and the local shop I'm dealing with will continue to give me canned tune (Evotech) based on the mods I have. Maybe someday I'll drive to another state to have a real pro-tune done but hopefully this is enough for now.

Good luck!

 

I know... thats what sucks

 

For anybody that comes from the evo/sti world and knows the great work that rallinspired does, I was in talks with him about 3 months ago and he told me that he had a full stock r53 (I believe) ROM and was reading to start testing out email tunes on it. Haven't talked to him in quite some time but if anyone wants to see where he's at with the cooper you can find him on Facebook!

 

Im just going to find a way to carbon bond John Coopers brain into my R53 and then call it a day. That way the car can tell me what it needs.

Who needs Kit when I have John Coopers brain carbon bonded in the ECM? Then I would have the Ultimate JCW R53 EVER MADE!!! WAAAAA HAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!!!
The Earth Shall Tremble and It Shall Quake!

 

There is Option #6: Pay less than a $1000 for a custom "Remote Mapping" and get hardware and software that you can keep for the future

1) FA-Lite Tuning Kit (Data Logging w/ abiltiy to clear DTCs and Reset Adaptations) $450.00
2) CRM (Custom Remote Mapping) service $300.00 for one setup of mods
3) Innovate AFR Kit with serial cable $197.00

Features that we can provide:
1) Increased throttle response (you can resell the SprintBooster or D1 device, no longer needed for your FA-Tuned car).
2) Desensitize your ASC/DSC settings to be more 'controllable'
3) Launch Control for your MINI
4) Exceptional customer service and tech support
5) No Need to pay extra for dyno time during the tuning

We have tuned many customers nationwide and worldwide using this method with great results... (reviews from some of the well known forum members worldwide):
http://www.bytetronik.com/customers.html#pic_171

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NyNL...ature=youtu.be

 

What about upgrade options? Going from FA-LITE to FA53? Or you have to fork out another 750?

 

FA53 is only sold tuners... so you have to decide when you make the purchase whether you want us to tune it or have your tuner tune it... and you'll have to contact your tuner and see how much they charge for their tuning service.

 

Im pretty sure I dont have anyone local.

 

 

Could you explain the custom remote mapping... I mean is this like a one time shot or can we do this after other mods are completed?

 

Here's a more detailed write up on the CRM Process:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...rocedures.html

Before we start, we send over a Pre-Tuning Checklist to have you (and your mechanic) check over the car for any hardware issues. On there, you can list the mods that you want us to 'lock in' the mods that you want for this CRM Session. Once the session starts, then we can't add anything to the list.

Once we start the CRM session, you send us the requested set of logs, we then send you modified tunes that you can upload. Then a new set of logs on the tune1 or tune2, etc... during the entire process, we'll ask you for feedbacks on how the car feels and try to tailor the throttle settings and ASC settings to your driving style. After a few tries, we'll get final feedback and wrap up the tune.

Some cars are more straight forward and can be completed in 3 to 4 tries. Some will take a few more additional tries... but we will know once the AFR is to our liking and the car's long-term trims are within acceptable range. Once CRM is completed, we ask that you drive the car for a few days, and then send us some follow-up logs for us to double check (and make adjustments if required).

Down the road, if you add something drastic (i.e. BVH, different cam or Sprintex), then the retune CRM for your new setup is $250 for returning FA-Customers.

Typical CRM session is about one to two weeks. The faster you can provide us the logs, the speedier the process. Our response time to sending you a new tune is within 24 hours after the receipt of your logs.

Hope this helps...

 

Sounds like the same procedure as doing a dynoless tune for rmw, etc...
Tricky to get right...and time consuming....
Getting an hour of dyno time (about $100-150) IMO will get you a better tune...
Not sure about current pricing...but my initial tune was $350.....dyno was $100, and was told "updating/adjusting my tunes would be $100.....
I did get a remote box so I could do the changes remotely for another $350 or so....but it has not been needed....
Prices were from a few years ago....but the op guessing $1000 for all options is off...
For about $450-500 you can get a tune...custom..
Watch out on the pricing...r56 tunes HAVE ALWAYS cost a bit more...try 650-800$....so maybe that is where you are getting you $1000 from...but different cars, different tuning system.
PS
Since a dyno already should have a AFR reader....you save $200 by getting in run on a dyno....so the $100 dyno run saves you $97.....
Bytronic is a great option....just keep in mind....it is ONE option.....
And with tunes, you pay for the experience of the tuner.....or you blow crap up and learn...just pick the way.....

 

For your "non-Bytetronik" dyno-less remote tunes, what data are you giving your tuner for making adjustments?

When you tune on the dyno, all you're doing is focusing on WOT.

With our CRM, we start with cold start, idle, warm start, idle and cruising to get the DRIVE-ABILITY of the car dialed in first... then we address the WOT... this process is totally different than your dyno tune b/c we are not on the clock for paying for the dyno

 

While this is an option it's still $947 and if you to get a new tune, you have to pay $250.

I also looked in RMW's remote tune and it's $350(device) + $300(tune) + $100-300 (dyno time).

I stand by my previous statement that a custom tune for your r53 for is going to run you around $1000.