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2005 MCS R53 Electric Water Pump / TPI Harmonic Balancer

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2005 MCS R53 Electric Water Pump / TPI Harmonic Balancer

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Old 08-21-2013, 03:01 PM
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2005 MCS R53 Electric Water Pump / TPI Harmonic Balancer

LAST UPDATE Thursday JUNE 4TH


AS with all mods being performed over the net I can take no responsibility for any damage that may occur on your own car.



This is going to be a drawn out write up. The mod has already been completed but due to a family emergency I will not be going into detail with photo's and all like I normally would. Please be patient and I will edited and add photo's as I have the energy or time in doing so.

So I actually misdiagnosed my Mini as having a bad water pump. I mean it wasn't to difficult being water was leaking from the area of the water pump it's self and I have replaced several WP's on other cars I have owned in the past so I just figured this one was bad too because it was leaking in that area. So what happened? Well we were driving in rush hour traffic, 106F temp, traffic was moving slow between 20 and 35mph. Then it began to pick up to 45 mph and thats when I noticed there was no power then the engine just died. Then It over heated. I opened the hood and coolant and leaking out by the WP and of course the pressure cap. A tow truck, a 110 dollars later, and my car sat in my folks driveway. We just happened to be visiting them from out of town when this happened. Coolant issues in the past? I did have some in the past due to the failure of the common deterioration of the thermostat gasket fault. That was replaced. No other issues. Every so often I would have the burned rubber smell. But when I would test my harmonic balancer it tested ok. I did keep an eye on it. I did the same with my belt.

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So what actually happened? Well After I replaced the water pump with the this one I threw a brand new belt. I was able to make it home with the help of my dad and another battery. The following day I pulled the front off the Mini and passengers side and wheel well. Reached in test all the moving parts and the fricken harmonic balancer was shot. The HB pulley was riding free. I went ahead and ordered a new TPI HB and replaced it with another new belt. All is happy now.

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The original issue was the harmonic balancer to begin with. After my Mini over heated that first time I tested the harmonic balancer and it was solid and didn't wiggle. So I figured it was still good but I would continue to monitor it due to failure rates of this part with a higher mileage engine. Also I felt I was justified by replacing the water pump because when the engine overheated that first time water was leaking from the pump. How ever later the HB did fail completely leaving me stranded.

Anyway I ended up doing about 900 USD of work. That including the welding, new parts, etc... I do all my own work other then the welding on this project. I am very pleased with the work. I am going to relocate the WP at a later date.

Some Results:

There is no water pump to slow down the PTO on the SC so the engine spins up faster. The throttle response is much faster then before. I am certain others that have already completed just this mod alone can attest to how much more responsive the engine is in any situation. I am very happy with this modification. I had plans on doing it in the future with proper base dyno and such so we could have an idea of what one could expect after adding something like this. But when things started going down hill and left me stranded I needed to get my Mini back up so at the time everything pointed to the WP. Sucks spending the money but not thats its been done I dont really regret it after experiencing the results.


- Davies Craig 8005 EWP80 Remote Electric Water Pump Kit 80 liters per minute Comes with everything you need for the water pump part. It is ruffly the same size as the oem water pump.



Ok So a lot of the things I am not going to go over are breaking down the front end. If you need to learn how to break down the front end to work on the SC and Water Pump then this is a good thread to begin your journey.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...front-end.html


After you have the water pump off you may or may not want to take off the PTO plate. I took mine off because I wanted to see if the oil had drained and the gears had cannibalized themselves but they were perfect. I decided to remove them anyway and have the PTO plate welded with a plug and used as a block off plate. My reasoning was that even with the water pump removed the SC would still have some resistance turning the PTO even if it was not much it was still something. Why not eliminate it now. So I did.

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Image A: Here is the PTO plate. You can see what the plate looks like on the inside and out and where it is located on the SC in accordance where I placed in in the photo.

Image B and C: If you look at image C first this is bolted onto the side of the engine block and is where the water pump mates up to the engine. There is an oring gasket that helps seal the water pump when it is mated to the block via this part. It allows the SC a little flex during acceleration and the water pump being on the SC can move. So the fitting is some what flexible as well. I used this as my base for a pipe to be welded onto for my access to the engine block. The length of pipe was about 7 inches or so. In the photo you can also see how the shop did an ugly job at welding the aluminum PTO plate. But it works.

I bought some copper T pipe 1.25" with a 1/2" center tap. Sanded and scoured the copped so when I applied the adhesive it would have something to grab onto. Lower half attaches to the lower radiator and the top to the input of the electric water pump. The 1/2" runs up to the thermostat housing.

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I placed the water pump up underneath the throttle body but I am going to be relocating it underneath the supercharger soon to give it more room and allow it to tilt in a manner to so air never is trapped.

After securing the pump I wrapped some refletex around it loosely so as to reflect some engine heat but also allow some cushion and breathing.

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That top photo is my still fitting the hoses and trimming them to length. But I ended up running the center half inch hose underneath the intake to the supercharger and along the side of the engine block. It was a nice fit. I have photo's that I can post as soon as I find them. The hoses and everything then remained staged in place waiting for the front end to be assembled and the radiator installed and tested. Also I kept all my AC connections so after everything was said and done I put it all back in place and bolted it all down and it worked as expected. So I still have AC.


I had delayed wiring the water pump to the fuse block under the hood. For those that do not know where this fuse block is located it's next to the R53 air box. Attached to the air box is another rectangular box and that is where the ECM is located. The fuse block is the fatter rectangular box that sits on the other side of the ECM.


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This part shows the lid removed from the fuse block as well as the pigtail with relay that hardwires into the fuse block and the other end plugs into the water pump.

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Take your digital multimeter and set it up to read Volts DC. My probe plugged into Pin 5 on the connection plug. Be careful not to damage the pin. The negative lead just was grounded to the chassis. We are interested in this as a trigger not a voltage source. This is where you will attach your trigger wire to the relay switch.
The actual voltage goes through another route on the relay switch. As you can see with the ignition off we have 0vdc.
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Now switch the ignition key on but do not start the engine. You should now have some voltage. It may or may not read 12 vdc but it really doesn't matter because the car is not started and it more then likely will not read exact voltage. As you can see mine reads just under 12 vdc. No biggie as this is just acting as a trigger to turn the relay on and not a power source for the relay.
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After everything has been installed turn your ignition key to on but do not start the engine. You should now have power to the water pump and you can hear it running. If you just installed the pump don't forget to properly bleed the air from the pump so it functions correctly. When you turn the ignition key off there will still be power going to the water pump. Don't freak out it is meant to do that for a few short minutes to help circulate the water cooling down the engine.

Now start the engine and let it warm up. Watch the temp gauge. If everything has been done right the engine should not overheat. Take it for a test drive and continue to monitor your gauges. If all goes well then you are done.


Ive been getting questions about pumps to use and why a couple people are still having some overheating issues.

I can not speak for the reason why one person would have their over heating issues solved by this means or why they would continue to have over heating issues. I can state the obvious in that maybe the problem was not corrected to begin with using this process. If your water pump failed then I would hope this would be a viable means to fix the problem. There are items that can fail when an engine overheats. Hoses get weak and the internals can collapse. The thermostat can break as well. The seal in the coolant bottle can leak. Be sure to look at all these things as well if you were faced with an over heating problem.

Which electric water pump to use? You can use any automotive electric water pump that is pushing the proper amount of water. Just understand it won't be installed like mine was in this write up. Thats not to say it wouldn't work just as good or even better. But you are on your own for how to make it work. I would ask questions in this thread and see if others can aid in the installation. Remember once you are in this path you must become You Own Warranty. The SC spun up much faster and on the highway she was plenty strong. I still stand by this as the best bang for the dollar even if the dollar amount might exceed what others deem reasonable. If we always did things within reason of what others thought we would never get anywhere would we?

I will return with another Mini. It might not be till next summer but this is by far the best vehicle I have ever driven. AND it is the best and most enjoyable on a long trip.

This is all for the time being.
 

Last edited by Raven Mocker; 06-04-2015 at 04:34 PM.
  #2  
Old 08-21-2013, 09:59 PM
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I'll be stalking you for this mod, RM. I know timing isn't right, but I'll be patient. Hope things will be looking up. Crap happens & mostly, we realize they do for a reason much much later. Look at how you arrived at this great mod....from another of those shitty moments. If it's any consolation, grats for a successful pump swap!
 
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Old 08-21-2013, 10:34 PM
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Old 08-22-2013, 12:48 AM
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A+, I love the EW/P setup, but of course I took the easy way out & had someone else do all the engineering, well done sir!
 
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Old 08-22-2013, 11:43 AM
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minisanity- crap happens for a reason at times… I can accept that on my car… not for the reason on the family emergency as I won't get into why. I know you did not mean anything by it so no worries ok.

BlwnAway- Please tell us a bit about yours before and after performance wise. Fuel economy? Power? Sound differences? etc? Do post a couple photo's you have of your installation in my thread.


 
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Old 08-22-2013, 04:59 PM
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Meant & wished you well, Raven. Glad someone addressed this 1st gen flaw. 1 of Sprintex's pluses is definitely the ewp. Did you modify the stock thermostat?
 
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by minsanity View Post
Did you modify the stock thermostat?
I actually could not decide how I was going to tackle the thermostat. I had some choices. I could either:

1- Go with out an OEM thermostat and let the water pump just run full wide open. But even then if you ran a controller the rpm would still be handled with a thermostat placed within the cooling system.

2- Or I could use a restrictor in place of the OEM thermostat and try to decide what size orifice to use to allow the cooling system proper warm up time but also still allow the coolant to flow free enough.

3- Or I could run an OEM thermostat and drill a 3mm hole in the face to allow water to flow through while the engine was still warming up until it opened.

I decided to leave the OEM thermostat out and add the controller later this winter when I garage my Mini for a winter project.
 
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:53 PM
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This is cool.

If I remember correct the OEM WP goes straight from a hose, into the pump then directly to the block correct?

I take it you had to make an adapter for that last part to really do this then, correct?
 
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Some Guy View Post
This is cool.

If I remember correct the OEM WP goes straight from a hose, into the pump then directly to the block correct?

I take it you had to make an adapter for that last part to really do this then, correct?
Yes Ive got photo's of everything but I am also still in the process of moving.
 
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:40 AM
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Lost you there a bit. Please correct me. I have a few questions.
-You're now running the EWP w/o the stock T-stat? Connected to the ecu?
-By controller, are you referring to this- EWP® & FAN DIGITAL CONTROLLER (P/NO: 8020)? Where is the best source to get this?
-Won't this complicate matters as it requires an ignition source not connected to the engine management system?
-Does the Sprintex system come w/ both the EWP & Controller? Perhaps Blwn could chime in.

Sorry for the noob questions. Thanks!
 

Last edited by minsanity; 08-23-2013 at 02:22 AM.
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Old 08-23-2013, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Raven Mocker View Post
BlwnAway- Please tell us a bit about yours before and after performance wise. Fuel economy? Power? Sound differences? etc? Do post a couple photo's you have of your installation in my thread.


RM, here's a couple of things:
Performance, far better IMO, power is stronger & starts lower in the rpm range. (supplied 69mm pulley)
Sound, I like it far better, it's more pronounced than the M45 & has a sweet old school blower "whistle" around 2500 rpm. (eso. w/ the smaller pulley's)
Fuel Economy, the same or better, this has much to do with tuning, but even w/ all my mods & age of motor I still avg'd 27mpg everyday (not babying it at all) and got better than 30 mpg on trips if I stayed under 70mph.
(PM me if you want anymore info on my build I'll send you some non-NAM PC links)

Originally Posted by minsanity View Post
-Does the Sprintex system come w/ both the EWP & Controller? Perhaps Blwn could chime in.
No, just W/P, mounts on the Air Intake Tube, connects to the factory hoses and uses the stock thermostat, always on through a relay connected to ECU power. (hence the +5 min. run time after the key is off)
Here's a pic. of the mounting position, I don't have anything better as far as hose connections, but as I said, you re-use the factory hoses.

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IMO the controller is sort of overkill, while it will work just fine it's not really needed, remember any stock W/P runs all the time & coolant is just bypassed around the engine by the thermostat, but the flow is still constant, so as long as the EWP flows enough for high temp/rpm driving it's really all you should worry about, plus don't forget, with any electric motor the biggest "normal" strain is on start-up, getting it to speed, constant operation is far less stressfull on it, so you would think that the more you stop-n-restart the motor the less life it will have.
 

Last edited by BlwnAway; 08-23-2013 at 05:17 AM.
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:33 AM
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Thanks, Blwn. That clears up all the smoke clouding my imagination. Haha. That controller only adds to things we should watch out for. I wonder if your EWP location could be retained w/ the stock M45. It looks really neat, man!
 
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:43 AM
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I was combing thru Sprintex's installation manual to no mention of the thermostat at all. Adding the controller might lengthen the life of the pump, true, but I'm electrophobic. IMO, this is best kept simple.
 
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:53 AM
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I've wondered about that too, posibly by using a Sprintex Air Intake Tube, mounting the W/P and making all the connections as if you were using the Sprintex and simply modifying or figuring out the connection to the S/C.
Hell it's just CAI, so the tube connection could even be rubber booted as long as you could figure a way to mount/stabalize the tube itself. The W/P only mounts to the Intake Tube, the block connection is just acomplished with the use of an O Ring.

My rebuild is going to "push" until early spring because of finances, and I've only gotten as far as pulling the S/C but the Intake Tube & head are still attached, if I get some spare time I'll pull my W/P off my M45, slap it on the block & see if anything comes to me.
 
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by BlwnAway View Post
IMy rebuild is going to "push" until early spring because of finances, and I've only gotten as far as pulling the S/C but the Intake Tube & head are still attached, if I get some spare time I'll pull my W/P off my M45, slap it on the block & see if anything comes to me.
I've been on the lookout for your rebuild updates, man. I'm confident everything will work out. Your guidance on the M45+ewp combo might light a lotta bulbs up in our heads. Haha. You're among the few who's got 1st hand experience on this. I know the Sprintex sees hotter temps compared to M45, but am I right to assume the EWP should be more efficient than our mechanical stock 1? Hope you get your epic 200k+ legend back up & running sooner than you expect!
 
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:29 AM
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The overall efficiency of an electric water pump is usually quoted as much lower...but it can be run at different speeds, AND (the big thing here) it is run off stored energy ( mostly) during peak pulls, so on a dyno, a slight HP gain is seen...the alternator on some modern cars can change output...reducing strain on the motor during acceleration, and putting out more power at steady running...while not implemented on gen1 cars, folks have been doing this type of mods on hotrods for a small gain for years....
Congrats on getting it all running!!
Good to see some folks experimenting!!
 
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:00 AM
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It's not all just HP gain we're after, Zip. You lose the waterpump when the charger oil dries up on the pump side=costly new/rebuilt charger & waterpump. With the EWP, cooling won't be run thru the M45 anymore. Efficiency increase is a bonus, really.
 
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:29 AM
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Honestly I would never look at this as a "performance" mod, more of a "alternative" mod for possible W/P & S/C issues, and just look at any gains in either cooling or performance/efficiency as a bonus. That's just the way I see it.
 
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:17 AM
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^Exactly my point, too, Blwn. It's a sound, invisible, corrective mod/upgrade. Much like those Vibra-technics/Powerflex mounts, Canton/RMW expansion tanks, Arcol/Dorman/bypassed fan resistor mods, Alta/MASTAHspeed adjustable tensioner stops, ATI/PRW damperS, FSDs, etc.
 
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by BlwnAway View Post
Honestly I would never look at this as a "performance" mod, more of a "alternative" mod for possible W/P & S/C issues, and just look at any gains in either cooling or performance/efficiency as a bonus. That's just the way I see it.
+1
Just as I see it...
You can still find used m45 sc for $600. .about $100 more than the core value... Heck got one about 5 years ago off a wrecked cabrio with 15,000 miles (got mine with the used water pump and the sc horns...might set it up for meth....easy to tap it that way)...still waiting its turn to get used!! Someday when the expertise of rebuilding the PTO on the m45 goes away, the electric water pump might be the ONLY way, but with places like stergimeir (spelling sorry) offering great rebuilds for the mini and cobras, etc for $850, and cheap rebuilds going for $200 less, don't think it is a $$ saver in all but a very fee cases....maybe for a car with good low mile supercharger with a bad PTO....
Still love the innovation/keeping the learned knowledge alive by folks doing this!!
 
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:32 AM
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Those who have failed PTOs can max out the life of the SC w/ this option. In a few ways, you actually save. Still, like what Zippy did, getting a good, reasonably priced spare charger would be good insurance.
 
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:14 AM
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I was going to do the mod anyway. And I was able to get the kit for 190 shipped.

I will be using and adding the Davies Craig controller meant for the WP. But not till I down the car for winter.

The controller will help more during winter months in that it can slow down the motor's rpm and allow warmup as well as when the engine is being cooled by the climate.

This is not a magic bullet but anyone that has been in my Mini has noticed the difference after the new WP has been added. The SC on not only has to spin a WP it also has to spin a set of gears in order to get the PTO and WP to spin. Those are not removed and no longer an impeding force. I see this more as an improvement over a poor design. Also when the time comes to do a tune I feel there will be more benefits.
 
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Old 08-23-2013, 04:11 PM
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Why not run the stock thermostat like Blwn & the Sprintex kit? You should be able to get the car warmed properly before the t-stat opens. I understand the benefits of the controller though. Please keep us posted on developments and those pics when everything settles. Thanks, RM, for doing this & getting the awareness up.
 
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Old 09-23-2013, 08:56 PM
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I haven't had any issues with the way I have the thermostat now. As soon as it begins to freeze I don't have any plans on driving the mini. Will have the winter car out.

Ok this is good for the time being... still working on it... but I have this for now. I have other photo's I just do not know what I did with them... they might still be over at my folks place.
 
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Old 09-23-2013, 10:31 PM
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Pics do say a lot! Thanks for the update, Raven. Hope you can find & share the rest!
 

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