Who's up for a little drag racing? jlm? BlueMCS? macncheese? Pilo? Helix? dandp? vdubdoug?

I've got the 19% on and I'll see how it does on the strip.

 

I have the negative pulley mod....

What time do things start down there? Although I think I'm out of the loop for tonight....

 

I'll be there about 6. They run til 10 or so.

 

that sounds like fun....

 

Possibally... gotta give a little more heads up then this :smile:

 

hrrrmmmmmmm drag racing... *drool*

 

Well, it was a fun time. No other MINIs raced, but Cheese raced his Scion! Vdubdoug was there, but I think he was still lost, trying to find his way back to the MINI Cup II.

I got 3 runs right away (2 of them were less than 10 minutes apart). The car was pretty heatsoaked and I couldn't get better than a 14.9. My IAT got up to 168 F and my coolant temp while staging was 221 F!

After watching some action from the stands, I ran again with my much cooler car. This time peak IAT was 136 F and my coolant temp while staging was only 180 F or so. The best run was 14.783 @ 93.73 . I was hoping for a 14.5, but will have to wait til next time to try that. I improved my launch considerably, dropping my 60-ft time from my first 3 runs (2.462, 2.427, 2.487) down to 2.388 on my last run. Still not what I'd like to see (2.25 or better) but an improvement nonetheless.

My weight was 2676 lb without me and 2888 with me. I had almost a full tank of gas. I'll post some graphs and pics later.

 

thanks for the information andy....

question - i was looking at your 1/4 mile database, and according to that, it looks like last year you ran a faster time with the 15% and the Magnaflow than with the 19% and the One-Ball that you have now....

would you say that either: 1) the 19% pulley's difference in hp gain over the 15% is less than the gain of the magnaflow over the one-ball?
<or>
2) the IAT and staging temperatures were so much higher the time you tested with the 19% that this is uneven data?

Cheers
-ABT-

 

Forget the drag racing.

Put your Mini on a road course. PDA would welcome all you Mini guys.

http://www.imp-auto.com/pda/

David
PCA, BMWCCA, TracQuest, FOCNER, PDA Instructor

PS Andy, did you do any "One-Ball" dyno runs? And how does it sound.

 

Come out to Giant Stadium for some autoX tomorrow!. I will be ther, with a bunch of friends. (WRX, Saturn, Honda) so it's a good variety of people. :smile: This is some good performance testing :smile:.... I'm getting my 225-50-r16 tires mounted right now... so it should be interesting.

 

Dan, I know BMW is also doing an auto-x out on Long Island tomorrow. Where did you see the one about Giants Stadium? I know NASA has one next Sunday up there.

 

Has anyone provided yet the speed, by gears, for the 19%? I sort of recall someone doing so, or at least asking... not sure though.

When chatting with Chris at PROMINI a couple days ago, he mentioned the 19% and how torquey it is. He did say that it would not be the best choice for high-end performance though, a 17% being a nicer compromise between the two (15 & 19). If that is indeed the case, maybe the "law" of diminishing returns is the reason why Andy's numbers were not quite as low as some expected.

As ambient temps rise over the next few months, it will be neat to see how the numbers compare to those of last summer... Real-world testing!

 

Enough of this! Changing the supercharger pulley does not change the transmission gear ratios!!!!!!!! The speed and gears are the same! You just get to the speed faster!

I disagree. Like Andy, I had the 15% and then upgraded to the 19%. The 19% should theoretically only be a little better but it's not. It's a lot better. Instead of giving 25% more torque it gives at least 50% more torque. And believe me, you can feel it. It accelerates like a rocket. So I think the opposite is going on. The 19% is much more efficient than the 15%. So far, the 19% seems to be the ideal ratio although only time will tell.

 

>>Dan, I know BMW is also doing an auto-x out on Long Island tomorrow. Where did you see the one about Giants Stadium? I know NASA has one next Sunday up there.

WWW.AUTOX4U.COM

That has all the local info you need.

 

>> Enough of this! Changing the supercharger pulley does not change the transmission gear ratios!!!!!!!! The speed and gears are the same! You just get to the speed faster!

Good point. I should not have put the question that way. Between hearing directly from a rep at BMP/PROMINI, and indirectly from another board member who chatted with another Chris (@ Helix), the advisement was that for top-end, road racing like speeds, a 19% is not the ideal choice. So, given that recommendation, and Andy's findings thus far, it seems that one can get to certain speeds faster, but maybe not others (speeds)...

>>
>> I disagree. Like Andy, I had the 15% and then upgraded to the 19%. The 19% should theoretically only be a little better but it's not. It's a lot better. Instead of giving 25% more torque it gives at least 50% more torque. And believe me, you can feel it. It accelerates like a rocket. So I think the opposite is going on. The 19% is much more efficient than the 15%. So far, the 19% seems to be the ideal ratio although only time will tell.

I'm sure one can feel it (the 19% difference), but the 1/4 mile time deltas don't exctly speak favorably. It would have been nice to see Andy drop 2 tenths off of his personal best, as he was hoping. I'm not sure how you or anyone say that the 19% is more effiicent than the 15%. It pulls so much stronger, at least down low, yet that is obviously not being maintained to make for improved 1/4 mile times. It would seem that an increasing inefficiency could account for that disparity.

I think for many of us, time will tell primarily one thing... how the 19% holds-up to the higher ambient temps of summer. There are too few data points at this time to draw any conclusions. I was really looking forward to the 19% proving that it can handle the heat of summer, but at this point, I don't care if it does as the performance gain, at least as shared so far, makes me wonder why even ponder the precarious path in the first place...

Maybe for jack-rabbit rushes from stop light to stop light the 19% kicks butt. Otherwise, the vendor recommendation received seems to be right on, and I would venture to guess that it would reveal more divergence as one went well beyond 100mph...

Andy's real-world testing, and sharing is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

 

Here's a few pics:

 

>>Here's a few pics:

>>

 

Here's some graphs:



The 15.1 and 15.3 were when the car was heavily heat soaked. The 14.7 was after cooling off for a bit.

 

Here's an interesting comparison. Last July, I ran a 14.745 @ 93.61 with my 15% pulley. Here it is plotted with the 14.783 @ 93.73 that I ran last night with the 19%.



Considerably more boost, very similar speeds. Hmmmm ....

 

Andy,

the boost levels on your last graph seem a bit low for the 19% pulley. I just did a WOT run in 2nd & 3rd gear and was seeing just shy of 18psi of boost at redline.

 

I was short shifting (sort of) on that run. I see 17-ish psi at redline.

 

Hey Andy, i thought i would give you an update with some new happenings....

I installed some new guages, and intercooler guage(sp's of course), a water guage to monitor thw "water" temp in the intercooler, and egt guage. they give alot more fun to the research....

As well i started to play with modding my water to air intercooler, and now my intercooler is quite awesome, i ve gotten as much as 95 degree drops in hard acceleration runs, IAT temps with data and outside of intercooler guage readings matching and not exceeding 94degrees so far on a 80degree day, the water temp has not got passed 84degrees and that was sitting in traffic due to a wreck, intake temps of the intercooler peaked around 165 ish I feel not that bad for my MINI's first rally especially since there were some heavily modded STI's and Audies, even though they are in a diffrent class there were 32 cars in the awd class and i still finished 9th OVERALL )

 

Have to play devil's advocate here... conditions and track prep have immense effects on 1/4 mile times and trap speeds. So comparing an old time with a 15% pulley to a recent one with the 19% would be very difficult to justify as solid determination that the 19% hardly adds any performance. Only way to do that is change it at the track that same night (quickly) and run under similiar conditions. Otherwise its like comparing results from different cars or dynos, neat for bench racing but not really effective for solid results.

Also, what were your 60' times on the 15% pulley? They have a huge effect on 1/4 mile results. Any idea what the weather differences were for both runs? Etc etc...

_________________

 

I agree about variation between conditions and technique on those runs. Unfortunately, I don't see swapping pulleys at the track as a viable scenario. What I've noticed though is the acceleration at a given speed is similar between the 15% and 19%. That's not dependent on the launch, shiftpoints, etc. I believe the reason for this "closeness" is because the dragstrip only uses the upper reaches of the rev band. Other than the launch, revs never drop below about 5,000 rpm. The 19% has low end torque as its forte.

I'll do some more in-gear testing of both the 15% and 19% to see exactly where the acceleration curves converge.

 

2Cool, I'll agree that a few runs on one night are not to make for conclusiveness. That is the reason why I chose my words carefully.

With that said, that is beauty of what Andy is doing here. I'm guessing that he has a record of all of his runs last year, and probably beyond. It would then be pretty easy to get an average (w/ 15%), and median, as well compare the aforementioned personal bests. Assuming the only change from then to now is the pulley size, more E-Town runs will give us further data points.

BUT, I think a few of us have heard how the 19% feels; that it knocks one's socks off even more so than going from stock to 15%. Assuming that is a given, I'd expect to see the 19% guys gravitating to the top of Andy's 1/4 Mile Log just as the 15% MCSs are now, while the stock pullied MCSs hold-up the rear...

When many have gone from stock to 15%, and as I can also attest, it is pronounced. And if I'm not mistaken the improvement in 1/4 mile times is readily apparent, and immediately, unlike what we got with the 19's first exposure to the strip. I seem to remember that all of the guys who went with 15's (from stock) saw improvements in their 1/4 miles times with their first experience. And that may have been why Andy was hoping to likewise see such a marked improvements in going from 15 to 19...

While more data is needed, and I'm sure will follow, the first runs seem to not be as resounding as when one goes from stock to 15%. And I'm being polite and tactful as possible here with my expression, as I know there is some sensitivity on the subject...

All of the boost and IAT readings, as well as hp and torque curves are awesome! Each paints a picture, and reveals various aspects that contribute or impact performance. The bottom line, or big picture, is what Andy, and others are doing at E-Town and other drag strips. Who really cares if one has more boost, or a "better" curve if in the overall scheme of things, the "package" is not delivering?

And given the potential concerns that accompany the 19%, it will need to prove itself hands-down over the 15% for it to become a consideration for many. If it does require a larger IC to realize those type of gains (let's say a .2 decrease to 14.5 in Andy's case), then this mod is not quite the 200 buck cure-all anymore. This will change things for quite a few folks who might not want to part with 1+ grand...

I realize that some now might be thinking that I have something personal against the 19. That is not so. On my running mod list (completed & pondering), I've had it on there, and higlighted for sometime now! In my quest for a 10:1 weight to hp ratio (2,400 lbs/240hp), I was truly hoping that it could be a factor in that equation. So, I'm a bit bummed that it is appearing not to be the panacea for a much faster ride. But, since I was planning on a more efficient IC anyway, and if the 19% really delivers with that addition, and safely, I'll be there

_________________
2003 IB MCS