Dan,
Im not doubting your head, just wanted more info about it.... As we sit right now there are what three or four heads on the market, and a couple of good headshops being discussed, but as we are looking in to buying heads, for i have decided not to do my own for market(i am doing one for myself, and already have done one for my rally car). I need to know which head to persue for distribution for my customers, and i have no way to make a good sound judgment of one head over the other, i have no numbers( i dont go by dyno numbers, they always can be and will be biased, and are not a good comparison for every dyno is diffrent, as well as other factors). Its not just yours, Madness no numbers, Randy's no numbers, JLM's done through endyne no numbers, Mania's stage two or three head no numbers, CHR has numbers but only max numbers(only tells me a small part of whats going on), BBR's no numbers, etc etc, see my delima, i want to know what i am offering to my custumer base, not to mention taylor to there needs, not one head is going to be perfect for everyone, one head may be good for the drag racer, but not good for the autocrosser, it depends on how the head flows, where is maximum flow, do we go past it with the lift early or late, how is low lift flow, etc etc Now you may have the good everywhere head out of the bunch, i just have no way of making that decision without any numbers to make a comparison with, and its not just yours i have none. From my experience in the past SBC head manufactures push the flow numbers, all the manufactures in that arena have posted their flow numbers, i dont understand why everyone here is scared to, unless they are not happy with the results. 90% of horsepower and torque is made in the head. It is the basis of what and how all the other mods are going to perform, without a good head no good power will be made period, In our case the mini exhaust valve and ports are the biggest bottleneck, the SC kinda takes care of the INtake side(not that it should be ignored thought), For example the 80% rule does not apply to us, for we can not acheive 80% exhaust flow vs intake. for numbers sake (i dont have any but CHR's) CHR intake flow is 210 cfm(now add in the pressure from the SC) ill use a basic 14.7 PSI boost which "theoreticlly" doubles our flow that makes the intake side will be flowing around approx. 420cfm at max flow, now the exhaust only flows 155, thats not even close to 80% its only around half. I am only stating this to show how "bad" all of the minis heads are and these numbers are only part of the story but makes the point.....So why cant we have the numbers?

 

my head arrived

 

Dan,

I think the numbers would be great as well as post by caddman. Your pricing and dyno results are almost identical to what everyone else is claiming. You stated that yours is $500 cheaper, but that is not the case. Yours is $500 cheaper than the other mods that include a larger exhaust port and valve, which seem to hover around $1800, which I am guessing your Stage 2 will come close to. Almost everyone is showing @ 15hp gain.

In my opinion, hp is not necessarily the only result we are looking for. Granted the flow numbers can be modified, but if the company is doing it in a controlled manner then the before and after should be relevant. I don't think the ultimate result flow numbers would be good, just the delta changes between the two heads.

Anyway, if you don't release the numbers, then at this point from a consumer perspective all the heads are about the same, so flip a coin and pick one.

 

I paid about $1,300, which included shipping and larger exhaust valves; the various gaskets come to about $60. My intention is to measure a few things, take a pic or two, and install mid week. dyno wringing will follow.

 

this is an example of what im taking about with flow numbers, it is an email i recieved about the CHR Racing head...

"Trey, the cylinder head was a 2003 Mini Cooper S, with a 3 angle valve job, and 1mm oversize Ferrea Valves. Flow numbers are as follows: These are finished ported numbers.
Intake cfm Exhaust cfm
.050 42.5 42.0
.100 75.1 73.6
.150 103.1 103.8
.200 133.1 125.6
.250 164.2 136.9
.300 183.9 144.0
.350 196.3 148.9
.400 206.0 151.0
.450 210.5 155.0

The price for our package is $1395.00. This includes cleaning and disassembly of your cylinder head, a check over, 3 angle valve job, porting with these numbers, porting is done by hand, numbers may varie 2%, flow tests are included, so are pictures, and data, Ferrea oversize 1mm valves, new BMW valve guide seals, and milling of the decks surface for head gasket sealing. Also final steps of reassembly. And we also provide a t-shirt.
We at CHR Racing Products thank you for your interest in our services, and look forward in doing business with you. Kindest regards, Jeff Fredenburg / CHR Racing Products"


Hey JLM Hows it look !! Congrats i know you have been waiting a while

 

here is a choice quote from the old one:
"All it takes is a tiny bit of exhaust contamination on the intake-side to significantly kill power. Inert components present in the mixture not only make up a portion that won't burn, but they also contaminate and compromise the quality of the "good" mixture.
That being said, I do what ever is necessary to combat reversion, whether it's on the exhaust-side, or the intake-side.
I don't purposely kill low lift flow, but when you design and configure the chamber, valve seat, and bowls to inhibit reverse flow....they don't flow particularly well at low valve lifts.
Lets assume that it's possible (and it isn't) to absolutely stop reversion in the intake tract at the manifold flange. This means that you still may have as much as 220cc's of inert gasses in the intake port of the head.
I'll do my best to post some flow numbers here tomorrow and I'll let you decide if my low lift numbers are way off base. Please understand that flow rates that I say are "low" may not be to other people doing headwork...but they are "low" for me, as I'm not concentrating on those lift areas.
If you really want to analyse flow data and relate it to power numbers, you first have to look at the valve motion of the camshafts you're planning to use. Plot valve lift vs crankshaft angle, and then against piston speed. On the intake-side, piston speed is what creates the pressure-drop that's necessary to suck the air into the cylinder. It's most advantageous to "target" valve lift areas which correspond to the highest piston speed with outstanding flow rates. Now, if those lift ranges are where the cylinder-filling is best maximized, this is where you need to make the head flow like gangbusters.
The nature of ports is such that they can be made extremely efficient in some lift ranges at the expense of others, so if mid-high lift regions are where you're going to look for the most flow....you know where this is going..."

 

Hmm I think i read that before!!!

 

And I'll quote someone from BMW-Motorsport in Germany about 2 years ago. "This motor is ****."

 

>>And I'll quote someone from BMW-Motorsport in Germany about 2 years ago. "This motor is ****."

Did you mean to say that "This motor is THE ****"? That would be a good thing!

 

Hahaha, I wish. All of this talk about the head only further proves the point. It takes a decent amount of work to bring the head to what may not even be an acceptable level. It's not a motor that will be praised, thats for sure.

 

>>Hahaha, I wish. All of this talk about the head only further proves the point. It takes a decent amount of work to bring the head to what may not even be an acceptable level. It's not a motor that will be praised, thats for sure.

How and why is that? I thought this motor simply kicked butt.

 

>>Hahaha, I wish. All of this talk about the head only further proves the point. It takes a decent amount of work to bring the head to what may not even be an acceptable level. It's not a motor that will be praised, thats for sure.


While it is not a technical marvel with lots of gizmos, it has been praised. It has won numerous international awards. The amount of work that goes into the Mini is the same that goes into most four cylinders. In fact DPR and many of the other firms use the same techniques and perform the same steps on other motors such as the Acura, Honda, Toyota... The cost is also comparable to other head work for these kind of motors.

The main deficiency for this motor is the exhaust ports. I think the motor is quite dependable, and will be shown to be a strong and dependable motor. People are pushing 260hp with this motor and nobody has really shown any indication of blown motors. I have heard tuners/parts manufacturers pushing the motor beyond 350hp to test components with no affect on the motor.

I am sorry, but I have to disagree with your statements.

 

go here for some comparison pics of my head mods vs stock;
http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54805

 

Very Nice JLM!!

 

Verra nice head shot, jlm. Makes me want to find a MINI head and ship it off to TOO as well.

As for TomM, if that is your impression and belief, why would you buy a car with a "****" engine? Masochistic, maybe?

 

Compared to other motors, I would say from a performance standpoint this motor isn't exactly special. JLM seems to be one of few to really go over the motor in hopes of more power. By the time he is done, I wouldn't be too surprised to see 300hp at the crank, and while that definatly isn't the limit, it's a limit for any typical consumer who has deep pockets. I'm not saying 300 is the most we will get out of it, nor am I saying 300 is what JLM will get, but it seems like that is a logical number for what other companies have done and claim for similar work.

I didn't buy this car either, it was a car my father bought for me. I'm thrilled I have a car like this, but just because I drive one doesn't make it awesome.

And in my typical fasion I don't think things completely through, and the motor right now, supercharged obviously, with 200hp would make 124hp/liter which isn't bad. At 300 that would be 180hp/liter which is really good. I'm just comparing numbers to similarly priced cars (SRT-4, STi, EVO) but the SRT is a 2.4ltr, and the other two have 2.0 liter motors.

And to finish off my reason for why I am pretty stupid, and I'll say it before anyone else does, this car isn't about the motor, its handling is where it really excells.

Sorry about taking this off track.

 

not to be picky but the STI is a 2.5liter...